[3.5][Nostalgia] Kill Bargle

[angelfromanotherpin]

I've got that pbp urge again. Kill Bargle is a basic bitch dungeon crawl, a 3.5 adaptation of the scenario from the Red Box DM book that was published in the last issue of Dungeon magazine. So the nostalgia involved is nested.

The PCs are all adventurers who have previously encountered the evil wizard Bargle and been betrayed by him in some fashion, losing at least the life of one friend in the process. When Bargle was elevated to a council member of the town of Municipia, you heard the news, traveled to that town, found each other, banded together, and exposed Bargle's villainy, specifically his guilt in the murder of the priestess Aleena. Bargle fled the town, and has holed up in the ruined keep of Mistamere. The council of Municipia has offered a large reward for Bargle (dead-or-alive), but you'd do it for free.

This adventure is for four 3rd-level characters. Because it's supposed to be Basic Set, it's PHB content only.
Attributes: PCs choose from one of the following stat arrays:

18	13	12	11	10	7
16	16	12	11	10	8
15	14	14	13	12	11

Equipment: 2700 gp worth. You can't buy magic items, but Aleena's grateful peers in the temple will have given you some blessed gifts before you left town.

I will add that I could be wrong, but my first-glance assessment of this adventure is that it is very hard, so bring your A-game.

[Beroli]

Okay well. I'll propose:

A dwarven fighter who uses the first array in this order: Strength Constitution Dexterity Wisdom Intelligence Charisma.
An elven sorcerer who uses the first array in this order: Charisma Constitution Dexterity Intelligence Wisdom Strength.
A halfling rogue who uses the second array in this order: Dexterity Intelligence Constitution Strength Charisma Wisdom.
A gnomish cleric who uses the second array in this order: Wisdom Charisma Strength Constitution Dexterity Intelligence.

If no one else weighs in I'll post equipment lists later.

[JourneymanN00b]

Alright, so I don’t have the 3.5 DnD handbook, and it is been seven years since I played a DnD campaign, so I did some cursory Googling to see what stat setup is good. I will submit a half-vote to create the following party members:

Gnomish Bard: Strength: 8, Dexterity: 16, Constitution: 11, Intelligence: 12, Wisdom: 10, Charisma: 16 (Array #2)
Human Sorcerer: Strength: 10, Dexterity: 11, Constitution: 16, Intelligence: 8, Wisdom: 12, Charisma: 16 (Array #2)
Half-Elven Druid: Strength: 11, Dexterity: 12, Constitution: 14, Intelligence: 13, Wisdom: 15, Charisma: 14 (Array #3)
Elvish Wizard: Strength: 11, Dexterity: 14, Constitution: 13, Intelligence: 15, Wisdom: 14, Charisma: 12 (Array #3)

That's right, I chose to invest heavily in magic classes in order to see if magic is mightier than brute force for this adventure.

If it is allowed, I would like the Druid to have a pony as the animal companion, and the Sorcerer to specialize in the Illusion school while giving up the Evocation and Enchantment schools.

[Beroli]

Okay, gear list for my proposals:

Norda the female dwarf fighter: full plate armor, tower shield, masterwork silver dwarven waraxe, backpack, 50 feet of silk rope, a grappling hook, waterskin, week of iron rations.

Aerlya the female elf sorcerer: backpack, common lantern, flint and steel, 10 pints of oil, waterskin, week of iron rations, spell component pouch, longbow, 100 arrows, masterwork cold iron morningstar. Spell choices: Detect Magic, Ray of Frost, Light, Disrupt Undead, Message; Magic Missile, True Strike, Ray of Enfeeblement, Protection from Evil.

Vorbar the male gnome cleric of Pelor with the domains of Sun and Strength: full plate armor, heavy wooden shield, holy symbol of Pelor, masterwork cold iron morningstar, 50 feet of silk rope, waterskin, week of iron rations, spell component pouch, 3 100-gp pearls; masterwork light crossbow; 100 quarrels. Spells prepared at start: Virtue, Resistance, Guidance, Detect Magic; Protection from Evil, Bless, Sanctuary, Endure Elements(D); Bear's Endurance, Lesser Restoration, Bull's Strength(D).

Lodin the male halfling rogue: masterwork silver rapier, masterwork chain shirt, backpack, common lantern, flint and steel, 50 feet of silk rope, a grappling hook, waterskin, week of iron rations, masterwork thieves' tools, common lantern, 10 pints of oil.

School specializations are a wizard thing and relying on an animal companion and summons for durability at level 3 sounds unwise to me.

[angelfromanotherpin]

Right now we have two takers, so you each get two of the character slots to do with as you like. (If further players join, we'll redistribute.)

JourneymanN00b, if you don't have access to the 3.5 books, https://www.d20srd.org/index.htm remains an excellent resource.
Beroli, magic items are not valid starting gear.

[JourneymanN00b]

I will put forth my gnomish bard and elvish wizard as my two characters if we are going the two character slot route. I will withhold equipment purchases until we get a finalized roster. And ack, the specializations that i listed were for the wizard, not the sorcerer.

It might be easier logistically if we went with Beroli’s setup entirely though. If there are no other participants, I actually think that might be a better idea, since it would slow things down to finalize equipment lists.

[Beroli]

Sorry, I misread about magic items! Will edit.

My two character slots go to:

Norda the female dwarf fighter: full plate armor, tower shield, masterwork silver dwarven waraxe, backpack, 50 feet of silk rope, a grappling hook, waterskin, week of iron rations.

Vorbar the male gnome cleric of Pelor with the domains of Sun and Strength: full plate armor, heavy wooden shield, holy symbol of Pelor, masterwork cold iron morningstar, 50 feet of silk rope, waterskin, week of iron rations, spell component pouch, diamond dust for spells. Spells prepared at start: Virtue, Resistance, Guidance, Detect Magic; Protection from Evil, Bless, Sanctuary, Endure Elements(D); Bear's Endurance, Lesser Restoration, Bull's Strength(D).

(No need to change any equipment there, conveniently.)

[Thaluikhain]

I'd also like to play, but I'm not familiar with 3.5

EDIT: Though, if the party needs a brute meatshield member, that shouldn't be too hard.

[angelfromanotherpin]

I'd also like to play, but I'm not familiar with 3.5

You are welcome to join us. If you're not comfy making your own character, you can take one that the other players have presented, or I can make one for you.

With three players, each has one character slot they can fill as they wish and the fourth slot will be voted upon.

[Beroli]

EDIT: Though, if the party needs a brute meatshield member, that shouldn't be too hard.

You are welcome to join us. If you're not comfy making your own character, you can take one that the other players have presented, or I can make one for you.

If Thaluikhain wants to run Norda, they certainly can.

[Thaluikhain]

If Thaluikhain wants to run Norda, they certainly can.

Norda the female dwarf fighter: full plate armor, tower shield, masterwork silver dwarven waraxe, backpack, 50 feet of silk rope, a grappling hook, waterskin, week of iron rations.

Looking into it, that's more or less what I was going for. I'm uncertain about taking a tower shield instead of a heavy shield though, and would also like some kind of ranged weapon, even if it's just a light hammer than can be thrown.

[JourneymanN00b]

My one character slot will be Grobnar, the male gnomish bard. He will be loaded out with the following equipment:
Masterwork Silver Rapier
Backpack
Bedroll
Entertainer’s outfit
Traveler’s outfit
5 candles
1 week’s worth of trail rations (IIRC, I think trail rations are the only type of rations in 3.5?)
Waterskin
Disguise Kit
Masterwork Lyre
Studded Leather Armor
Dagger
Light crossbow
50 crossbow bolts

All equipment are small sized to accommodate his small size as a Gnome. If I calculated this correctly, the total cost of the equipment totals to 638 gp, and 1 sp.

For the six 0-level bard spells, I choose Dancing Lights, Message, Prestidigitation, Mage Hand. Mending, and Detect Magic.
For the 3 1-level bard spells, I choose Charm Person, Sleep, and Cure Light Wounds.

I am fine with whatever the fourth character slot will be. Feel free to provide any suggestions as to any weak spots that I am missing with my created bard, as this is my first time trying to create a character from scratch in v 3.5.

[angelfromanotherpin]

Feel free to provide any suggestions as to any weak spots that I am missing with my created bard, as this is my first time trying to create a character from scratch in v 3.5.

My thoughts:
1) Given that after racial stat mods Grobnar is rocking a 6 strength, give up on melee entirely. If you're taking a melee weapon as an option of last resort, for sure don't give it a mod (silver) that gives another -1 to damage rolls. Masterwork that crossbow instead, you are an archer.
2) Consider a Riding Dog. Does decent melee, small enough to go into dungeons, provides mobility. The Ride skill is cross-class, but might still be worth it.
3) Gnomes get Prestidigitation and Dancing Lights as 1/day SLAs, so you might not want to double up on those in your spells known, although more Prestidigitation is never bad.
4) Charm Person and Sleep are great. I might take Silent Image over CLW, it's extremely versatile and will probably prevent more than 1d8+3 damage.
5) You get 2 Feats, and I would probably go Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus into Enchantment, but there's an argument for Point-Blank Shot + Precise Shot.

[angelfromanotherpin]

Here's what I have for the PCs so far.

Vorbar (Gnome Cleric 3)
Str: 10 [0], Dex: 10 [0], Con: 13 [+1], Int: 7 [-2], Wis: 16 [+3], Cha: 16 [+3]
HD: 3d8+3 (21 hp); Speed: Ground 20 (15 armored); BAB: +2, Fort: +4, Ref: +1, Will: +6
AC: 21 (+1 size, +8 armor, +2 shield), Flat: 21, Touch: 11
Attacks: mwci Morningstar +4 melee (1d6)
Skills: Knowledge (Religion) +4
Feats: Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot
Abilities: Gnome Traits, Turn Undead 5*/day, Greater Turning 1/day, Feat of Strength 1/day
Spells:
     Lvl 0 (4): Detect Magic, Guidance, Resistance, Virtue
     Lvl 1 (3+1): Bless, Endure Elements, Protection From Evil, Sanctuary
     Lvl 2 (2+1): Bear's Endurance, Bull's Strength, Lesser Restoration
Possessions: (45/24.75 lbs)
Full Plate Armor, Heavy Wooden Shield, Holy Symbol of Pelor, Masterwork Cold Iron Morningstar, Silk Rope (50 ft), Waterskin, 1 week's trail rations, Spell Component Pouch, (diamond dust for spells – how much?), 3x 100gp pearls, 56.75 pp.

Grobnar (Gnome Bard 3)
Str: 6 [-2], Dex: 16 [+3], Con: 13 [+1], Int: 12 [+1], Wis: 10 [0], Cha: 16 [+3]
HD: 3d6+3 (17 hp); Speed: Ground 20 (15 encumbered); BAB: +2, Fort: +2, Ref: +6, Will: +3
AC: 17 (+1 size, +3 dex, +3 armor), Flat: 14, Touch: 14
Attacks: mw Light Crossbow +8 ranged (1d6/19+)
Skills: Bluff +9, Concentration +7, Diplomacy +9, Perform +9, Ride +6, Sense Motive +6, Use Magic Device +9
Feats: Spell Focus (Enchantment), Greater Spell Focus (Enchantment)
Abilities: Gnome Traits, Bardic Music, Bardic Knowledge, Countersong, Fascinate, Inspire Courage, Inspire Competence
Spells:
     Lvl 0 (3/day): Detect Magic, Mage Hand. Mending, Message, Prestidigitation, Read Magic
     Lvl 1 (2/day): Charm Person, Silent Image, Sleep
Possessions: (26.5/15 lbs)
Backpack, Bedroll, Entertainer’s outfit, Traveler’s outfit, 5 candles, 1 week’s trail rations, Waterskin, Disguise Kit, Masterwork Lyre, Studded Leather Armor, Dagger, Masterwork Light Crossbow, 20 silver crossbow bolts, 40 cold iron crossbow bolts, misc monies.
Riding Dog, Leather Barding, Military Saddle, 2x Saddlebags, 14 chunks meat.

Norda (Dwarf Fighter 3)
Str: 18 [+4], Dex: 12 [+1], Con: 15 [+2], Int: 10 [0], Wis: 11 [0], Cha: 5 [-3]
HD: 3d10+6 (28 hp); Speed: Ground 20; BAB: +3, Fort: +5, Ref: +2, Will: +1
AC: 21 (+1 dex, +8 armor, +2 shield), Flat: 20, Touch: 11
Attacks: mws Dwarven Waraxe +8 melee (1d10+3/*3) or Light Hammer +4 ranged (1d4+4)
Skills: [12 pts]
Feats: [Lvl 1], [ftr 1], [ftr 2], [Lvl 3]
Abilities: Dwarf Traits
Possessions: (136.45/100 lbs)
Full Plate Armor, Tower Shield, Heavy Wooden Shield, Masterwork Silver Dwarven Waraxe, Light Hammer, Backpack, Silk Rope (50 ft), Grappling Hook, Waterskin, 1 week's trail rations, 72.55 pp.

Needs skills, feats, gear finalized. I gave her a heavy shield as well as a tower shield because she can spare the weight for the option. Wielding the tower shield gives +2 AC (relative to the heavy shield) and -2 to hit.
The 3rd level of Fighter is unfortunately empty, it could be worth trading in for Ranger or Barbarian.

Toby Determined

[Beroli]

I nominate Lodin for the fourth slot:

Lodin the male halfling rogue: masterwork silver rapier, masterwork chain shirt, backpack, common lantern, flint and steel, 50 feet of silk rope, a grappling hook, waterskin, masterwork thieves' tools, week of iron rations, common lantern, 10 pints of oil.

I do not think going into a "very hard" dungeon with no trapfinder would be wise.

Switch out the diamond dust for three 100-gold-piece pearls; I misremembered, there are no spells that use diamond dust below the third spell level.

[JourneymanN00b]

My thoughts:
1) Given that after racial stat mods Grobnar is rocking a 6 strength, give up on melee entirely. If you're taking a melee weapon as an option of last resort, for sure don't give it a mod (silver) that gives another -1 to damage rolls. Masterwork that crossbow instead, you are an archer.
2) Consider a Riding Dog. Does decent melee, small enough to go into dungeons, provides mobility. The Ride skill is cross-class, but might still be worth it.
3) Gnomes get Prestidigitation and Dancing Lights as 1/day SLAs, so you might not want to double up on those in your spells known, although more Prestidigitation is never bad.
4) Charm Person and Sleep are great. I might take Silent Image over CLW, it's extremely versatile and will probably prevent more than 1d8+3 damage.
5) You get 2 Feats, and I would probably go Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus into Enchantment, but there's an argument for Point-Blank Shot + Precise Shot.

Thanks a lot for the input. I was mistakenly under the impression that finesse could be used for the rapier. Given your information, I would like to make the following changes to equipment, spells, and feats.

1. Get rid of the masterwork silvered rapier
2. Make the crossbow a masterwork one
3. Have 60 bolts instead of 50, with 20 of them silvered and the other 40 cold iron
4. Get a riding dog with leather armor barding, 14 chunks of meat, a military saddle, and 2 saddlebags
5. Replace they 0-level spells Dancing Lights and Presdigitation with Ghost Sound and Read Magic, and Cure Light Wounds with Silent Image for the 1-Level Spell edits.
6. Take Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus into Enchantment for the two feats.

Undecided on Skills for now, but I envision Diplomacy, Perform, and Riding to a lesser degree will stand out.

[Beroli]

Weapon finesse can be used with a rapier, but of course only if you take the weapon finesse feat, which I would further suggest Lodin should if he's selected.

Feats for Vorbar: Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot.

Skills for Vorbar: Knowledge: Religion 7. (I believe that uses up all his skill points.)

[JourneymanN00b]

I vote for Grobnar to spend 6 Skill points each in the following skills in order of preference: Diplomacy, Perform, Riding, Use Magic Device, Bluff, Concentration, Sense Motive.

I also second Lodin for the fourth slot.

[angelfromanotherpin]

Feats for Vorbar: Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot.

Vorbar has no ranged weapons?

[Beroli]

Oops! How careless of me. Masterwork light crossbow and 100 quarrels added.

[JourneymanN00b]

Upon further reflection, I would like to get rid of the Disguise kit since Grobnar does not have the Disguise skill. I also calculated the cost of the equipment without the Disguise kit, and it totals up to 688.85 gp if I did it correctly. If there is a hard limit for 675 gp per character, I would like to also remove the leather barding for the riding dog to free up 20 gp for later spending.

Also, I don't think the Prestidigitation to Ghost Sound for the 0-spells was registered. Or did I miss something?

[angelfromanotherpin]

If there is a hard limit for 675 gp per character, I would like to also remove the leather barding for the riding dog to free up 20 gp for later spending.

Also, I don't think the Prestidigitation to Ghost Sound for the 0-spells was registered. Or did I miss something?

The equipment budget per PC is 2700 gp, so you're still well under.
The spell-like abilities a gnome gets are 1/day each of Speak With Animals (burrowing mammals only), Dancing Lights, Ghost Sound, and Prestidigitation. You'd be doubling up either way.

[JourneymanN00b]

If there is a hard limit for 675 gp per character, I would like to also remove the leather barding for the riding dog to free up 20 gp for later spending.

Also, I don't think the Prestidigitation to Ghost Sound for the 0-spells was registered. Or did I miss something?

The equipment budget per PC is 2700 gp, so you're still well under.
The spell-like abilities a gnome gets are 1/day each of Speak With Animals (burrowing mammals only), Dancing Lights, Ghost Sound, and Prestidigitation. You'd be doubling up either way.

Thanks for the clarification, as I am very rusty when it comes to character creation. I will choose Summon Instrument as the replacement 0 level spell to avoid doubling up.

[Thaluikhain]

I don't know what feats and skills I should take, and would welcome advice on this.

[angelfromanotherpin]

Fighters don't have a long skill list:
• Because you have an abysmal Charisma penalty, the Cha skills aren't a good investment.
• Jump, Climb, and maybe Swim are okay — you have a big armor penalty to them, but a big Strength bonus, so it might be worth.
• Craft(Smith) and Craft(Mason) are a bit interesting because you have no penalty and a racial bonus to them.

Feat-wise, I'd definitely recommend Power Attack and Cleave. After that, Improved Initiative, Combat Reflexes, and Iron Will all look pretty good to me.