Druid/Monk Cheese

[Lago_AM3P]

Shut up. I know the monk level is going to hurt me. But the people I'm playing with are already stuff like ECL +1.

Anyway. The whole reason why I'm inquiring about this combo is that the FAQ flat out states that you get your full component of iterative BAB attacks and your natural weapon attacks. Monks can literally attack with any part of their body. So it usually seems like you'd be making sets of full attacks.

My character starts out at level 2. Even though it's murder, I am really thinking about taking a level of contemplative for the competition domain. It adds some pretty sweet swag. A lot, but not all, of the druid buffs are available for some inexplicable reason.

Anyway. Anyone got a course of character advancement up until character level 12 or so? Or if you have something that adds a lot more attacks than the monk combo (which is the whole reason for this crippling side trek) I'd be more than willing to hear.

[RandomCasualty]

I'm actually not sure if unarmed strikes and natural weapons work together at all, if I recall the MM correctly the iterative attacks combining with natural attacks was solely for manufactured weapons.

[Lago_AM3P]

RandomCasualty, that would be the logical thing to do.

The FAQ sure fixed that, though.

Check this stupid shit out.

Can a monk who has natural weapon attacks (such as a centaur monk) attack unarmed and still use his natural weapons? For example, let’s say he’s an 8th-level monk.
Can he use a flurry of blows and attack at +5/+5/+0 unarmed (plus other bonuses) and then at +0/+0 for 2 hooves?

If the creature normally is allowed to make both weapon attacks and natural weapon attacks as part of the same full attack routine, the monk can do the same (making unarmed strikes in place of weapon attacks). Since a centaur can make two hoof attacks in addition to his longsword attack, a centaur monk can make two hoof attacks in addition to his unarmed strike attack (or attacks, depending on his base attack bonus).
The monk can’t use his natural weapon attacks as part of a flurry of blows, but he may make natural weapon attacks in addition to his flurry. Such attacks suffer the same –2 penalty as the monk’s flurry attacks in addition to the normal –5 penalty for secondary natural attacks.

An 8th-level centaur monk has a base attack bonus of +10 (+4 from his 4 monstrous humanoid Hit Dice, and +6 from his 8 monk levels). If he performs a flurry of blows, he makes three unarmed strikes, at +8/+8/+3. He can add two hoof attacks at +1/+1 (–5 as secondary weapons, and –2 from the flurry).

In the previous part of the SAF and also in the section for unarmed attacks in the regular PHB, creatures who have manufactured attacks can make unarmed strikes with body parts that aren't natural weapons. So when your monk/druid changes into a Megaraptor, you're apparently whipping through the air hitting people with your tail.

[RandomCasualty]

Heh, wasn't aware of that FAQ. Yup that certainly changes things.

[User3]

Yes, IUS as a druid rocks, especially if you can use a Wild clasp-ed Amulet of Natural weapons or somesuch.

Remember to wear your Wild dragonhide full+ plate and your Wild tower shield, once you Wildshape you aren't wearing them.

[MrWaeseL]

I love how they deducted the penalty for flurrying twice from the hoof attacks.

[User3]

Can you add in the "new" grappling cheese that Skip clarified in his recent article as well?

Druid Wildshape Attacks + Monk Unarmed Attacks + Grapple Cheese =

Well ... it must equal something interesting.

[User3]

As well as subtracting the flurry penalty twice, they even got the size of the penalty wrong.

[MrWaeseL]

Since this thread is more recent than the one on Nifty, I'm going to ask this here.

Oh. Okay, I'll just break down some basic tricks. These shouldn't be too hard to understand.

5th level: Wildshape into an errata'd raptor. That's the first thing you want to do. I'm serious. These things are frickin' awesome.

Alternately, if you can stomach the loss of a level and your favorite animal form has at least one unused limb (this includes a head), take a monk level. Not for the wisdom bonus to AC, which will be lower than what you get for animated shields and GMV armor, but for the ability to continue to use manufactured attacks while in wildshape form.

This is explicitly allowed by the FAQ and it puzzles me severely.

Remember Talon from primal rage? You can be a druid 5 / monk 1 and walk away with 7 crappy attacks if you use flurry and two-weapon fighting: at a measly +4/+4/+4/+8/+8/+3/+3. But as a druid 8 / monk 1 who has a prayer bead of karma and greater magic fang/nature's favor, your attack (and you will have upgraded to the 8HD big-ass raptor form by now: I forgot its stats), your attacks will be at +17/+17/+17/+12/+21/+21/+16/+16.

Jurassic Park, wombates.

Lago, how did you get the bonusses for those attacks? For the first one, +3 bab +4 strength -1 size = +6, and that's without flurrying.