The Gaming Den

Every time you redefine a term in GNS to suit what you think the word is supposed to mean, you derail the conversation. I disagree with him on one point. /Conversation Derailed. You said that if we had this conversation without using the "official" definitions of GNS words, that the conve...

I would say that Edwards is mistaken in his first statement. If you look at some of the "Narrativist" games that are out there, such as MLWM, the principle themes are built into the game ahead of time, so there is a pre-defined theme. That's inconsistent. Remove that and everything gels j...

Every time you redefine a term in GNS to suit what you think the word is supposed to mean, you derail the conversation. No. The "conversation" is derailed already. We've been over this. Ron Edwards doesn't have a consistent or defensible thesis statement. That bridge is burned to ash and ...

A) Narrativism isn't telling a story, it's exploring themes within a story. There is always a story, no matter what kind of game you play. Calling Narrativism "telling a story" renders the term meaningless. http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t64/Coyoteesharptongue/lex-luthor-wrong1.jpg We...

Has it not been described that the general consensus that GNS works as... * Narrativist - Magic Tea Party * Gamist - Munchkinism * Simulationist - Rules Bloat Yeah, those are some of the dysfunctional elements. Those are things that happen when people take those agendas too far and fuck up the game...

Does that make more sense? Not really. How does someone play a game to tell a story without playing the game to play the game or simulate the events in the story? -Username17 A) Narrativism isn't telling a story, it's exploring themes within a story. There is always a story, no matter what kind of ...

Wait a minute, shog. If the labelings are not universal then how can you use them to define how much a game has [GNS] in what amount if at all. It can't be a labeling/categorizing theory and not at the same time. Also making sub categories doesn't help much either. Pretty much every PnP RPG has all...

While the idea of "neo-GNS" is certainly an improvement, in that the definitions are comprehensible and consistent and the neo-Theory accepts that all portions are to some extent desirable rather than being opposing forces, I still don't think it's a particularly useful theory. The proble...

And as the person who made the Alchemy quote, I have to point out that GNS could have been the Alchemy of RPG theory. I say "could have been" because GNS attaining that status would require a bunch of perceptive RPG theory to have followed in its wake. Instead, it's produced a bunch of pe...

This is all from "Narratavism: Story Now" But you see the basic problem Shoggoth, every time we give you four quotes, you have to drop one or even two to get them to "gel." The entire document has roughly 2 thousand quotes. Your position is that the ideas presented in GNS are cl...

There cannot be any "the story" during Narrativist play, because to have such a thing (fixed plot or pre-agreed theme) is to remove the whole point: the creative moments of addressing the issue(s). In Narrativism, by contrast, the major source of themes are the ones that are brought to th...

It seems that, and has been stated before, that come variation of a swarm mechanic is need to represent a large number of individually insignificant opponents. The tricky thing will be how to show that the swarm/unit is being damaged (I have honestly never looked over the 3e swarm rules so I'm not ...

How about the one where you keep pretending that Eunuch Sorcerers constitute a theme? It's given as an example of a god damned theme. Also it is consistent with some of his fucking definitions of the word theme. Which dovetails nicely into my point: it's rambling. And contradictory. The fact that y...

Also, citing examples of something is not the same thing as defining something. An example is not a definition. You continue to do this.

I have extensively ripped apart your critiques where you quote what you think are antithetical statements that he makes in his essays. No you haven't. You nailed me quite spectacularly on the whole "interdependent vs. independent" thing, but other than that you don't ave shit. I quote a t...

I'm not saying anything he hasn't already said in his articles, and I'm more than happy to quote extensively to prove it. When you're quoting from an essay that says both A and ~A, quoting extensively does not demonstrate your point no matter what those quotes actually say on their own. -Username17...

That doesn't mean it has to be appropriate the the genre, just appropriate to the game. People mix genres all the time, after all. Unfortunately, "being appropriate" is not stated as necessary to be Narrativistic. There is a slight implication that its not relevant, in fact, but more impo...

The fact that it is possible to conjure legitimate and sane definitions using his words doesn't, unfortunately, mean that he did so. To misuse an old quote to make a point: Infinite monkeys with infinite typewriters will mostly produce gibberish. I'm not saying anything he hasn't already said in hi...

The problem is that he overlooks that you can be playing "Narratively" (is that even a word?) in a narrativistic game and still be a game derailing dick. Again, DUH. You can derail any kind of game, any time, by being a dick. If we're playing DnD, and my rogue steals your shit even though...

Because there's no distinction other than the one of "the GM says no" between "odd but doable" and something that we can tell was ass pulled because it stinks. Or to put it more clearly, is out of place. I'm not sure if "is immortality worth the cost of human lives" is...

The problem seems to be that Edwards (intentionally or otherwise) implies that you can pull a "Theme" from your ass and even if it has nothing to do with what's happening in the game, the genre, or anything else, that's Narrativism. In fact, it may be more Narrativistic to pull it from yo...

But since you can challenge the themes, they aren't conclusions. Fair enough. Better to say that they are philosophical statements. This isn't "bullshit semantics," this is any semantics. The very concept of providing unique meaning with communication - the Narratavism thing refuses to do...

The reason why writers on these Sci-Fi shows never take the technology to it's logical conclusions is because these stories are fundamentally about humans as we know them. It's patently ridiculous, with what we have technologically now and where the trends are going, that we will be fully human norm...

Zeruslord got it in one: Since "Theme" is defined as being something that players acquire in play and as something that the players bring into the game from before the game, the term is fucking meaningless. The Narratavism definition is basically "something you do to get your Theme g...

I generally reward the player, but like Talisman said, treat it more like the floating +2 modifier than a whole game breaker, at least in AA games. In games where turn by turn success isn't measured, it's easier to just roll with it. Some people really get off on this stuff though, and they can get ...