Why isn't the Federation filled with holograms?

[Bill Bisco: Isometric Imp]

This is something that I've thought of even when I was a kid. In Star Trek Voyager, they have an EMH (Emergency Medical Hologram) that can substitute for the ship's doctor and in fact was made the ship's doctor for the rest of the series after the first episode.

Later on they found future technology which let the hologram travel everywhere. So, given these 2 facts. Why doesn't the Federation just build fleets of ships filled with holograms programmed with all the relevant information to do their jobs. Heck these programs can learn too, so you can make future programs better.

So with this in mind I have a few questions...

1. Why do heroes/organizations/etc. never take advantage of obvious things that would make them powerful? Ex: Starfleet with holograms, Superman and powerplants, D&D Wizards and free money/slaves/invincibility

2. If said hero/organization/etc. does take advantage of this obvious power or ability why does the author/storywriter/etc. have to punish the hero/organization/etc. for taking advantage of this obvious power/capability? Ex: Chainbinding Efreetis causes the King of Efreetis to come and kill you, empowering the holograms to command ships causes them to rebel against starfleet, etc.

[Bigode]

2) should be fairly obvious. The show breaks if it's not done. Of course, the solution's to not include the crap in the first place ...

[virgil]

Holograms are infamous for taking up drastic amounts of energy and processing cycles, even by Federation standards. How often does the holodeck go rogue? Also, the Federation is borderline luddite and gets very antsy when messing with AI more advanced than a pleasant-sounding search function or porn site.

As for the two main questions, it's a common trope. I'll pull up more info when I have time.

AHA!

[Bill Bisco: Isometric Imp]

This is a part of what I don't understand. Why can't these Dungeon Masters/TV Series writers/Comic Book writers just go with some of these obvious applications rather than trying to maintain the status quo as God? Why does my Dungeon Master not like it when I mess with the status quo of his world by practically applying my wizard spells?

I mean, this is part of the fun of D&D for me, being able to be "smart" unlike in many movies.

[Talisman]

Because D&D is a shared story, and the GM wants to be able to tell his side.

A good GM will either nix the problem before it begins, or adapt to it and let you do what you want (provided it makes sense...start conjuring gold out of thin air and you may have to deal with dwarvan assassins).

It's a position I can sympathize with, even if I don't agree with it...it's hard work dealing with the crazy shenanigans players throw at you, never mind intelligent crazy shenanigans. It's easier to just say "You can't," or hit players over the head with the Mallet of Overcompensating Complications, rather than accept that Wizzy McWizard is now virtually invincible (which is boring) or has access to limitless wealth (which can cause its own problems).

I have no better explanation for writers of comics/movies/whatever than the one Bigode gave: it would break the world setting, so it's Not Allowed.

[Surgo]

To answer the original question: Star Trek writers suck.

[PhoneLobster]

Yeah.

They Suck

I wonder if Berman and Braga are in on the new movie? It sounds like their rewrite the glory days for their own glory sort of thing from what little I've heard so far.

[JonSetanta]

Star Trek episodes must each begin and end with relatively familiar setups for each one.
Any major shift in, say, widespread holographic warfare might upset that continuity.

Also, don't forget that the ST:V doctor was shut down at least once in the series. That proves to me that there is counter-technology available, rendering such mass-produced 'fake crew' an unreliable resource.

[Surgo]

Also, don't forget that the ST:V doctor was shut down at least once in the series. That proves to me that there is counter-technology available, rendering such mass-produced 'fake crew' an unreliable resource.

There were a number of real people who were also "shut down". The technology used there: bullets.

[angelfromanotherpin]

I always liked the idea that the TNG crew and ship had been covertly replicated with transporter tech by Starfleet Black Ops, which was why there's so little continuity between episodes. Whenever they developed a new application for any of the technologies, like the transporter accident that returned people to pre-pubescence, the application would be seized by SBO and that copy would be destroyed, and replaced with a new one. So that application would never be seen again, except to make SBO members never die of old age (or whatever ramifications the tech use had).

[Neeeek]

It occurred to me that there is an entire ship of holograms, as suggested, in an episode of Red Dwarf. No real reason is given as to why they don't do it more often, though it's possible the technology to do so was developed after the point at which the show started (there's a very large time jump between the first and second episodes).

As for why Starfleet doesn't do it, it's probably because they have people who want to get into starships and go exploring. They've got little need to explore beyond people wanting to do it, since they don't really need much of anything as a people.

[tzor]

This is something that I've thought of even when I was a kid. In Star Trek Voyager, they have an EMH (Emergency Medical Hologram) that can substitute for the ship's doctor and in fact was made the ship's doctor for the rest of the series after the first episode.

There are a number of reasons. For starters, STV is an example of desperation technology; the EMH was only turned on because the ship's doctor died and then was turned on for a 24/7 operation. This is not standard procedure and most EMH would only get occasional activation time (if at all, they are after all EMERGENCY systems) so they would not be able to achieve sentience as did the ST:V EMH.

Second, the Voyager had a biological computer, which AFAIK wasn't standard equipment on Federation vessels. You have to forget about the "hologram" aspect that was simply interface. The hardware interface is the computer which makes him and Data not much different from each other.

Remember that Data was never replicated by the Federation. The evolution of the EMH on ST:V was for the most part a plot device as the EMH was clearly originally designed to be just a "smart bot."

On the other hand it dosn't discount the question of why can't you make holographic "away teams." Send holographic probes instead of people to potentially hostile environments.

[name_here]

The EMH is confined to sickbay and the holodeck, and suffered massive malfunctions over the course of the series, including senility and hallucinations, once getting to the point where he thought he'd become human, and was wandering the ship freely while the entire crew was dead. That's not even counting wacky things that screw with holograms. Plus, federation data security being what it is, holographic crews are at risk of being subverted by the romulans

I do hear that the doctor gets a mobile emitter, but i also hear that that was 29th century technology or somthing.

[virgil]

They've installed holo-emitters on every deck of the ship (making it one big holodeck), but they had to strip out alot of the ships systems and install even more power generators in order for the thing to work.

As for the Doctor being an 'emergency' system, that's largely because of the power draw running him requires; also, the Federation has very much shown its pathological reluctance for automation (notice you need a helmsman and direct pilot and gunner when autopilot/targetting should be stupidly good by now).

Then there's the fact that they tend to have computing systems like the holodeck be centralized, so all it takes is one good hack to take over the entire ship, rather than the single area you hacked (unless your the awesome guy for that episode).

[Voss]

Tzor- don't forget, however, that the emh sentience is duplicated. Repeatedly. The evil Nazi Hunter aliens are given holodeck tech and their holograms gain sentience and escape, and try to build a society. They actually seem inherently sentient, they just need a fair amount of running time to 'prove' it, and federation officers who are actually willing to stand up for them.

Back in the federation, in later seasons, they actually have a trial to determine the legal rights of the EMH as an author, and find in his favor, which gives hope to the oppressed masses of former-EMHs who have been reprogramed as miners & plasma scrubbers (whatever the fuck that even means) in hostile environments.

They also establish that there are EMHs on other ships- the bio-aspects of Voyager may well have nothing at all to do with it.

Basically, they do actually write themselves in a corner and then refuse to deal with the consequences of this tech. They just draw some vague slavery parallels and close it up.

[Bill Bisco: Isometric Imp]

Thanks for you all's post.

My main point isn't really literally why the Federation isn't filled with holograms because anyone watching Star Trek will realize that the universe is heavily biased toward organic beings. Given the need to breathe and be at a constant temperature and to avoid a host of possible viruses/biological infections/etc. really organic beings should be very inferior to holograms who don't need to breathe, can be super-strong, can allow your attacks to go straight through them, can handle extreme temperatures, and are immune to all diseases.

Yet of course in these series, Data and The Doctor from Voyager manage to get incapacitated more often than their biological associates.

My question is really more along the lines of why are these writers so afraid of taking these technologies to a practical outcome?

This is related to gaming in the fact that I see similar behaviors from on of my DMs who has a problem with his players messing with the status quo of his world.

[name_here]

Maybe the writers prefer the status quo to mass hologram armies.

[Absentminded_Wizard]

The EMH is experimental, and Starfleet doesn't know how the experiment's going because Voyager is across the galaxy in the Delta Quadrant.

Also, every time a hologram has escaped from the bounds of the holodeck, chaos has ensued. Furthermore, the Federation probably hasn't figured out how to deal with the ethical quandries involved in creating sentient AIs (presumably why there's no big push to try to replicate Data).

[Bill Bisco: Isometric Imp]

Maybe the writers prefer the status quo to mass hologram armies.

Why? Can anyone name me one series/book/whatever where the people in that world wholly took advantage of the power in their hands? Wouldn't that in of itself make that series/book/whatever very unique and compelling?

Absentminded_Wizard: Aren't those just cop-outs though? I mean there was an episode of TNG where another Admiral wanted to take Data apart and another one where they wanted to take Lal away? There was that episode of Voyager where we found out that all the holograms of the doctor were made into miners! So obviously the Federation is not concerned about any chaos ensuing!

And of course this brings up the question of why should humans do any work ever again? I mean, just make holograms into waiters, servers, secretarys, etc.

I mean I would love to see some stories of a society that practically uses these free 'slaves' without all this Matrix "but the machines will rebel against us" bs.

[angelfromanotherpin]

I mean I would love to see some stories of a society that practically uses these free 'slaves' without all this Matrix "but the machines will rebel against us" bs.

It's called I, Robot, and associated material.

[name_here]

Not to be confused with the entirely unrelated movie of the same name.

[Bill Bisco: Isometric Imp]

I mean I would love to see some stories of a society that practically uses these free 'slaves' without all this Matrix "but the machines will rebel against us" bs.

It's called I, Robot, and associated material.

You are right about I, Robot, although it only applies this idea in limited aspects.

I'm also aiming at a more broad category than simply robots though such as superheroes using their powers to generate infinite energy for humans or time travel being used properly.

[Meikle641]

Personally, I don't get why they don't do what the Prometheus did, and have emitters all around. Use them to make Holographic security teams with safety protocols removed. Impervious to most weaponry, but can kill you. Just need to have that function on a closed system, perhaps

[JonSetanta]

As by the ST pseudo-science, a living being could survive off of holographic food, but it would be like fairy food; leave the "holoemitter field" and your molecules, now substituted with light held within force fields, vanish.
You turn to dust.

For holograms replacing humans... well, watch the Solaris remake.
Pretty much sums my opinion on the matter.

[Neeeek]

Yet of course in these series, Data and The Doctor from Voyager manage to get incapacitated more often than their biological associates.

That's because they can be killed without killing them. It's pretty handy for a writer to have someone whose death is reversible without a long explanation as to how they recovered.