I really like the 4E DMG/MM artwork.

Lago PARANOIA · Post by **Lago PARANOIA** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 3:13 am

Because I have the need to say something nice, I do have to say that I really like the artwork in the 4E DMG and Monster Manual.

For example, the 'there's the storm tower' splash page on page 148 and the panicked tiefling and dwarf trying to outrun a boulder on page 70 of the DMG are just awesome. They do a good job of setting the mood and are really evocative. This is great and WotC got their money's worth out of this.

So I gotta ask, why was the Player's Handbook markedly inferior to the DMG in terms of art production? Except for a few pieces I can't really think of anything off of the top of my head that I like. What's even worse is that the powers section don't have artwork that matches up with what the powers are supposed to be doing. Seriously, why the fuck isn't there any pictures of wizards throwing fireballs/lightning bolts/magic missiles/WHATEVER? What's going on with the warlord section, how come the only picture of action we get is of some douchebag throwing a spear? Is that supposed to be a warlord? Warlords only have one power in the PHB that uses a thrown weapon. Jesus!

mean_liar · Post by **mean_liar** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 4:12 am

Personal faves:

MM
The menagerie on p4-5
Soulspike Devourer p69 (the description is meh, but the pic sells it)
Gith on p129/131
Hyena on p166
KuoToa
Ogre
Oni
Otyugh
Troll (okay, its the Ogre redux, but its cool)
YuanTi on p269

Reviewing the book (fuck you, insomnia) I've come to the conclusion that Wayne Reynolds is awesome... with splash pages. His figures without context are just not compelling.

I will never forgive Jason Engle for fucking up the Death Giant on p121.

DMG
The intro pic sucks ass on p4-5. The Down's Halfling has to go.
p33 - while trying to look badass they only pull off uncomfortable
p35 - nice T-Rex dragonborn; also, world's ugliest dwarf
p52 - first good chapter lead illustration
p71 - best illustration in the book... leads to Skill Challenges. Fuck.
The dudes on p77 know you are totally full of shit.
p123 - "and over here is the Temple of Insufferable Evil"

Overall, okay. Not great though. The MM gets good stuff out of the sheer volume of art, I suppose.

Given how they really made an effort to illustrate a good portion of the monsters from the MM, its really too bad they didn't have the space in the PHB to give powers the same treatment.

Koumei · Post by **Koumei** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 4:56 am

Lago PARANOIA wrote: What's even worse is that the powers section don't have artwork that matches up with what the powers are supposed to be doing.

For what it's worth, people are making an entire deck of power cards (and status condition cards) using Touhou art to illustrate them. Because there is seriously Touhou art for any possible situation you could imagine.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 5:04 am

I really fucking hate the new art for the Monster Manual.

All the crappy monsters with palette swaps and extra spikes added on look like shit drawn by middle schoolers.

When I see a cool picture in the MM, it is almost invariably one that I recognize from a previous edition's books. The Black Slaad on page 239 for example is sweet. And it's from the 3rd edition D&D Joke Book. The newly commissioned art is like the pile of slaad on page 237 - and it is shit.

Frankly, the entire 4th edition art aesthetic, with its mad over use of triangular patches on armor and giant pointy chins looks like garbage. If I never had to see their bullshit rendition of a Skull Lord and just got to bask in the totally wicked awesome artwork that they've accumulated the right to in the last 35 years like the Bog Hag (4e MM p. 150, but originally from Oriental Adventures), I'd be fine with that. Fuck, just replace the page space with absolutely nothing and make the book shorter and more handlable.

-Username17

Aktariel · Post by **Aktariel** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 5:20 am

As in, the manic shooter Touhou?

Torko · Post by **Torko** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 5:27 am

mean_liar wrote: The dudes on p77 know you are totally full of shit.

The guy in the back is halfway through a facepalm. "No Josh, you can't use endurance to convince the duke."

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 5:57 am

Aktariel wrote:As in, the manic shooter Touhou?

Yes.

-Username17

Aktariel · Post by **Aktariel** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 6:21 am

Uhh... where do I get that book?

PhoneLobster · Post by **PhoneLobster** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 6:30 am

Lago PARANOIA wrote:Warlords only have one power in the PHB that uses a thrown weapon. Jesus!

Warlords have a power named "Jesus!" that throws a weapon at someone?

That has to be the most exciting sounding 4E power I've heard of.

edit: no wait, I might have read it wrong. It's an unknown power that uses Jesus! as a throwing weapon. It's ambiguous.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 6:32 am

PhoneLobster wrote:
Lago PARANOIA wrote:Warlords only have one power in the PHB that uses a thrown weapon. Jesus!
Warlords have a power named "Jesus!" that throws a weapon at someone?

That has to be the most exciting sounding 4E power I've heard of.

No. You throw it at Jesus. But yeah, it's the most interesting power.

-Username17

Just another user · Post by **Just another user** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 7:20 am

PhoneLobster wrote:
Lago PARANOIA wrote:Warlords only have one power in the PHB that uses a thrown weapon. Jesus!
Warlords have a power named "Jesus!" that throws a weapon at someone?

That has to be the most exciting sounding 4E power I've heard of.

edit: no wait, I might have read it wrong. It's an unknown power that uses Jesus! as a throwing weapon. It's ambiguous.

What happened to niche protection? that is obviously a divine based power.

Koumei · Post by **Koumei** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 7:43 am

Haha, nice Lance of Longinus there, Frank.

Aktariel: the interwebs. http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Touhou

Lago PARANOIA · Post by **Lago PARANOIA** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 7:53 am

Is that supposed to be the Lance of Longinus?

Holy shit, that thing is out of control. Is that what the Romans went around ghetto-stabbing people with? Dizzam.

Koumei · Post by **Koumei** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 8:19 am

It's the Lance of Longinus as portrayed in Evangelion. From all sources I've read, the lance (or spear) was just an ordinary spear, and didn't look like that. Artistic license on the part of the guy who created Eva.

erik · Post by **erik** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 8:25 am

Lago PARANOIA wrote:Is that supposed to be the Lance of Longinus?

Holy shit, that thing is out of control. Is that what the Romans went around ghetto-stabbing people with? Dizzam.

Indeed they could only use them in the ghetto or on stationary targets nailed to poles since that kind of weapon would break if it hit anything sturdy at all (shield, armor, fish bones).

angelfromanotherpin · Mon Jul 06, 2009 12:10 pm

Koumei wrote:It's the Lance of Longinus as portrayed in Evangelion. From all sources I've read, the lance (or spear) was just an ordinary spear, and didn't look like that. Artistic license on the part of the guy who created Eva.

Pilum, really. Which is a weird-looking javelin-thing.

The bizarre pointed thing in Evangelion is only called the Lance of Longinus because everything at NERV is code-named in a biblical theme. I mean, the three magi weren't supercomputers based on the engrams of a dead scientist either.

Koumei · Post by **Koumei** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 3:31 pm

angelfromanotherpin wrote: The bizarre pointed thing in Evangelion is only called the Lance of Longinus because everything at NERV is code-named in a biblical theme. I mean, the three magi weren't supercomputers based on the engrams of a dead scientist either.

I know that. Nothing even actually says there were three of them. There were (2+) wise men/kings who visited, however they brought three gifts (gold, frankincense and myrrh). And so, everyone came to assume there was one guy for each gift, and somehow they got the names Balthazar, Melchior and Gaspar. And I can't be the only person to have had three hard drives and named them as such. Later on I had a single hard drive which I named Navi (Lain). Now I leave my drives as C and D.

Anyway, it's not *only* the Bible they draw from, other religions are referenced as well (along with things sort of linked to the Bible - "God's in His Heaven, all is right with the world" is from a really depressing poem. But it mentions God and Heaven, so it fits).

...wow, I can almost remember the crazy research I did on this, back in the day, nearly ten years ago. Damnit, now I kind of wish I still had my animu DVDs I left in Melbourne. I wouldn't mind watching the End of Evangelion again.

Meikle641 · Post by **Meikle641** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 9:24 pm

I wish, that I could turn back time~
But now the guilt is all miiine~

Man, EoE is a weird movie. Pretty animation, though.

virgil · Post by **virgil** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 11:58 pm

Lago PARANOIA wrote:Is that supposed to be the Lance of Longinus?

Holy shit, that thing is out of control. Is that what the Romans went around ghetto-stabbing people with? Dizzam.

I'd be more worried about the person they show holding the lance. She looks like she was the one that twisted the steel into a swirl, with her hands.

Judging__Eagle · Post by **Judging__Eagle** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 12:36 am

Frank, what's the source for that LoL, they did a really good job with the forming of the spirals that become the tines of the spear-fork weapon.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 12:58 am

Judging__Eagle wrote:Frank, what's the source for that LoL, they did a really good job with the forming of the spirals that become the tines of the spear-fork weapon.

It better be. The damn thing cost $130,000!

-Username17

Ganbare Gincun · Post by **Ganbare Gincun** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 1:34 am

FrankTrollman wrote:
Judging__Eagle wrote:Frank, what's the source for that LoL, they did a really good job with the forming of the spirals that become the tines of the spear-fork weapon.
It better be. The damn thing cost $130,000!

-Username17

If I ever win the lottery, I am buying that fucking thing. Or paying to have another one made. Whatever.

But they can keep the dinner plate. Yuck.

Psychic Robot · Post by **Psychic Robot** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 3:14 am

Good Lord, the Lilith plate.

Cynic · Post by **Cynic** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 4:31 am

Fvck, You can't trust the internet anymore.... A supposed lesbian, and "men"

and all they do is look at WEAPONS.... geez. there was a woman behind the Lance of Longinus...

which I do admit was pretty nice

But, Eh, Art-wise, D&D's been going down since what CW. I remember looking at a piece that took up the whole left column in either the CW or one of the latter books with a Samurai or a FIghter holding his sword up with a horribly constipated shouting grin on his face

erik · Post by **erik** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 4:33 am

Ganbare Gincun wrote:
FrankTrollman wrote:
Judging__Eagle wrote:Frank, what's the source for that LoL, they did a really good job with the forming of the spirals that become the tines of the spear-fork weapon.
It better be. The damn thing cost $130,000!

-Username17
If I ever win the lottery, I am buying that fucking thing. Or paying to have another one made. Whatever.

I am certain that you could commission one for a hundred times cheaper.

I would be more impressed if it didn't weigh 28 fuckin kilos. No wonder that chick looks like she could crush me.

The Gaming Den

I really like the 4E DMG/MM artwork.

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