Please Describe Mordenkainen to Me

[User3]

I am planning on playing a personification of this character on chat, and I would like to know as much information as possible on Mordenkainen, especially his position of 'enforced neutrality' or whatever that is.

[Kirin_Corrigan]

This is a pic of him just to get an idea of his appearance:


Mordenkainen is a real SOB who will go any lenght to keep the balance on Greyhawk. Let's say we have two conflicting forces (good and evil, law and chaos, red and blue, whatever): directly or indirectly (mostly indirectly) Mordeinkainen will help one side or the other to make sure that none of them will prevail over the other. Let's say that today he led your side to the distruction of a fearsome artifact that made your enemies too powerful/dangerous and that thanks to that you are close to eliminate the opposition... Tomorrow your enemies may "surprisingly" come upon extremely useful information that will help them strike your side where it hurts most, maybe kill some powerful guys in the process and bring back the balance.

As for the rest, if I'm not mistaken Mordenkainen is detailed in the Epic Level Handbook and the Greyhawk Gazzetteer.

[Sir Neil]

He's a warped fucker who thinks that if everyone performs goodly acts, the world would be just as spoiled as if everyone was fiendishly evil.

...What has given me reason to fear of late, however, is that there are too few to preserve the equilibrium of everything; to keep one power from upsetting all. The world need not be, nor cannot be swallowed by the Abyss or drawn into the Heavens. In so doing, its destruction is assured. Oerth is Oerth, a place for all and any, and there are but few who can act to assure that it remains so. I resolve to be one of them.
Excerpted from the Codex of Mordenkainen, 551 CY

... I just realized something -- he's afraid of change. An ultraconservative.

[Username17]

Mordenkainen is almost as much of a dick as Bigby, and this is hardly surprising because he is one of Gary Gygax's characters.

So he's a member of the Circle of Eight, and doesn't feel the need to follow the rules of the game because he's Gary Gygax's character (who made up the team of Gygax characters who occupied the Obsidian Citadel, which he made up, that were the imaginatively named: Mordenkainen, Bigby, Yrag, Rigby, Vram & Vin, Zigby, Felnorith, and Nigby).

So he has armies with Red Dragons in them and crap. Ugh. Mary Sueism gone absolutely nuts.

-Username17

[Julia_of_Hillsdown]

Isn't Mordenkainen also the one with the horde of clones in Zhentil-keep or wherever?

[dbb]

One of his adventures is described in fictional form here. This was the much younger, "original" Mordenkainen -- the character has changed significantly in TSR/WotC material since Gygax was actually writing it. He also appears as a character in some of Gygax's own fiction.

I've always seen him portrayed as rather taciturn, solitary, not especially friendly, impatient, and a little paranoid -- the sort of person who doesn't tell you much unless he thinks you really need to know it. He's also apparently slightly greedy.

I'll look up the Rogues' Gallery entry for him when I get home, and see what other material I have.

--d.

[dbb]

No, you're thinking of Manshoon. Mordenkainen is Greyhawk, Zhentil Keep is in the Forgotten Realms, which are themselves a Mary Sueism beyond the greediest dreams of Gygax.

--d.

[Kirin_Corrigan]

So he's a member of the Circle of Eight,

Oh no, it's actually worse than that: he's above the Circle of Eight and, obviously, resurrected them all when they were all slain and rescued them all when they were all captured and...

[dbb]

In the interests of strict fairness, I have to add that a lot of the stuff attributed to Mordenkainen happened after Gygax left the company and can't really be laid at his feet. Anything published for the Second Edition under the TSR regime, for instance.

I'd much rather have a conversation about the early days of D&D with Rob Kuntz than with Gygax -- his perspective as the guy both playing under and DMing for Gygax seems like it would be fascinating.

--d.

[User3]

What's "Mary Sueism"?

--------------------

Anywho, ol' Mord may talk big about "Neutrality", but in truth he just sticks his dick in whenever powerful events are happening. I think he's more afraid of others becoming powerful at all than he is of a "side" of the G/E or L/G fight getting more powerful than the other.

Basically, he's an insecure little girl who thinks he's the only person on the planet who should be high level.

[dbb]

"Mary Sue" is sort of like "DMPC" -- the term comes from a Star Trek fanfic charater named Mary Sue, who bore a suspicious resemblence to the author of the piece (much idealized, of course), and displayed all the usual hallmarks of being the DM's pet NPC, as it were.

--d.

[Julia_of_Hillsdown]

1120759966[/unixtime]]No, you're thinking of Manshoon. Mordenkainen is Greyhawk, Zhentil Keep is in the Forgotten Realms, which are themselves a Mary Sueism beyond the greediest dreams of Gygax.

--d.

I knew one of them had a bunch of clones walking around somewhere. Thanks. I never really played in either setting, so I got them mixed up *shrugs*

[Julia_of_Hillsdown]

MarySue Appreciation Society They have a lot of Mary Sue fiction, and a larger explanation of what Mary Sue is.

[Kirin_Corrigan]

Manshoon is 100 times cooler than Mordenkainen. Hands down.

[Tae_Kwon_Dan]

We also had our own lenghty discussion on Mary Sueism right here on these very boards.

LINKY

[Sir Neil]

1120767017[/unixtime]]Manshoon is 100 times cooler than Mordenkainen. Hands down.

98 times. Mordenkainen doesn't have an army of suicidal clones, and doesn't wear a goofy mask -- excuse me, battle gorget.

[dbb]

Here's Mordenkainen from The Rogues' Gallery, a 1980 TSR product now long out of print:

"A great and powerful mage, Mordenkainen spends much of his time pondering over new bits of magical research. When he does travel it is usually with the company of his high-level henchmen. On those occasions when he must venture alone, he will disguise himself as an old, poor merchant. In this manner he hopes to avoid attention while still obtaining his goal (usually some rare item for his work).

Mordenkainen should not, however, be mistaken for some weak and withered magic-user, preferring to mind his own business. He is an active and aggressive person, not failing to attempt bold, sweeping plans when the situation demands. He has skill in diplomacy, leadership, politics, and some knowledge of religion. He is thorough in his plans and will utilize whatever resources are necessary. He is stubborn and his decisions are often harsh. For all this, he is a clever and useful ally."

Note that this was written by Brian Blume, not Gygax, but it probably makes for a pretty good assessment of how Mordenkainen was viewed by other players when he was still an active character.

--d.

[MrWaeseL]

Mordenkainen is almost as much of a dick as Bigby, and this is hardly surprising because he is one of Gary Gygax's characters.

I thought Mordekainen and those others you mentioned were the characters of players in GG's first campaign?

[dbb]

They are ... sort of. They're from the Greyhawk campaign, which was started by Gygax but was co-DM'd by Rob Kuntz (and a few others at various points) in the '70s and '80s. Those named are or were all, to the best of my knowledge, played by Gygax. I don't know and couldn't begin to guess to what degree they're legit and to what degree they're the beneficiaries of Gygax just giving them stuff because it was "his" campaign.

--d.