DnD3.5 - granting class levels to creatures w/o Advancement

mean_liar · Post by **mean_liar** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 4:59 pm

I'm in an overcharged but 7th-level gestalt game and I wanted to kit out my character with a symbiont that can cast spells.

Unfortunately, every Symbiont-type creature that I've looked at have "Advancement: none".

Is there a way around this?

NOTE: this is talking about Symbionts as introduced in the Fiend Folio, rather than a the Symbiotic template introduced in Savage Species.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 5:01 pm

If you go Dread Necro you can get a Ghost Face as a familiar. That's actually off the hook, considering that its hit dice count as being the same as yours.

-Username17

mean_liar · Post by **mean_liar** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 5:24 pm

I don't follow.

I'm looking for a way to use the Symbiont "Share Spells" ability by having the Symbiont doing the casting.

I hoped to do that by finding an obscure Symbiont that can advance in class levels, or a Template that would allow a Symbiont to advance in class levels.

The Dread Necromancer's symbiont Ghostly Visage familiar is still a familiar and therefore you're still casting the spells and using the actions, yes?

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 5:41 pm

I'm not super sure what you want. I thought you basically wanted to get a symbiont that wasn't going to die and could still drop a high DC save-or-die every round.

But if you really wanted, you could have the Ghostly Visage learn UMD with its 7 hit dice of Undead. That would give it a UMD bonus of +13 before feats or equipment. Then it could cast spells or something I guess.

But seriously, most people get it because it's an easy way to pull an extra DC 16+ death ray every turn.

-Username17

mean_liar · Post by **mean_liar** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 6:06 pm

To clarify:

I'm looking for a way for an intelligent Aberration, Outsider, or Incorporeal Undead to gain class levels when their base Advancement scheme is explicitly listed as "none".

Alternatively, a way for any creature to gain the Symbiont subtype or the Share Spells ability.

imperialspectre · Post by **imperialspectre** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 10:52 pm

Frank, the trick is to get Personal-range spells on a beatstick (alternatively, spells that aren't on your spell list) because the symbiont's spells affect you and vice-versa.

OP, the easiest way to pull it off is via Shapechange, or possibly via Polymorph Any Object. No, seriously. It's a weird ability that's tough to access.

Orca · Post by **Orca** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 2:05 am

Improved Familiar feat? "Almost any creature of the same general size and power as those on the list makes a suitable familiar."

CatharzGodfoot · Post by **CatharzGodfoot** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 3:14 am

You could cast awaken on a garden variety crab louse, cohort it, and teach it to be a sorcerer.

K · Post by K » Tue Oct 27, 2009 4:53 am

Well, there are various mindswitching powers around. Check the psionics books for the actual power, get Leadership to pay for the possessor, and just say a Sorcerer switched bodies with a Familiar. Since the familiar's powers are actually Ex, all should be good.

K · Post by K » Tue Oct 27, 2009 4:57 am

mean_liar · Post by **mean_liar** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 9:51 am

Actually, this brings up a related question: how does "possession" work with regard to a Fiend of Possession? They can possess an entity at level 3? 4? But they can't control that entity with an explicit power until level 5.

So what's the delta there? I skimmed the SRD looking for "possessed" as a descriptor or status or whatever and didn't find anything.

hogarth · Post by **hogarth** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 11:21 am

mean_liar wrote:Actually, this brings up a related question: how does "possession" work with regard to a Fiend of Possession? They can possess an entity at level 3? 4? But they can't control that entity with an explicit power until level 5.

So what's the delta there? I skimmed the SRD looking for "possessed" as a descriptor or status or whatever and didn't find anything.

It says in the Fiend of Possession class what possessing a creature does, i.e. not much unless you use the Enemy or Ally ability you get at level 5 or the Control Creature ability you get at level 6.

There are also unrelated possession rules (in the Eberron Campaign Setting, for instance).