Pathfinder: the Lowdown

TOZ · Post by **TOZ** » Sun Oct 25, 2009 9:28 am

FatR wrote: Yes. Second Darkness is particularly offensive, as it puts a GM penis extension NPC right in the end specifically to explain that PCs suck and the demon lord behind most of the events does not even care whether they win or lose. Legacy of Fire just makes clear that the BBEG is sort of a loser that basically puts everything in motion to stop being a small fry, and also makes clear that real powers of both the material plane and the City of Brass can spank PCs with ease.

I'll have to get around to reading those at some point I guess. No wonder I prefer Shackled City. At least the PCs actions can have an effect there. Of course, the main effect is the choice between 'city gets big ugly scar' 'city esplodes in fire' and 'world is overrun by fiends' so the choices aren't great.

FatR · Post by **FatR** » Sun Oct 25, 2009 9:56 am

I don't count "save the world from being blown up/screwed over by stock evil threat #7568 of which the world (save maybe a few small locations or groups) wasn't even aware" as a "change". Such things happens in, say, comic books seven times a week, but status quo still remains god. Maybe I should translate, expand and post here one of my old rants that touches this topic, when I'll have some time.

P.S. Another example of what I'm talking about: tarrasque now is immortal period. It also is immune to mind-affecting to preempt the most common standard solution. You still can try planeshifting it to a place you don't like, but, well, the intent to remove plot-solving tools from PCs hands is clear.

Roy · Post by **Roy** » Sun Oct 25, 2009 11:47 am

Given how terrible the Paizils are at making characters, all their cock NPCs are probably made up of soft levels, such that a level 15 party could easily annihilate them. All at once. This is otherwise known as the Elminister principle - having lots of levels don't mean shit if you waste them.

TOZ · Post by **TOZ** » Sun Oct 25, 2009 3:51 pm

Yeah, I see what you mean FatR. That is about the most bullshit 'ha, you played into our Xanatos Gambit perfectly' you can do. I'll have to go see how Legacy of Fire fucks it up too.

At least in Shackled City you get to go stab the bastard behind it all in the face. And own your own plane of the Abyss.

And no Roy, they didn't bother to stat her at all. All I found was '12th level rogue maralith'. She literally is just exposition to shit all over the party, then leave.

mean_liar · Post by **mean_liar** » Sun Oct 25, 2009 8:59 pm

That's offensively horrible.

virgil · Post by **virgil** » Sun Oct 25, 2009 9:36 pm

In Rise of the Runelords, you get to hunt down one of seven formerly country-ruling archmages orchestrating the entire adventure path, bestowing upon the party his spoils and a gilded city (more money than you can shake a stick at); all by level 15 or 16.

Surgo · Post by **Surgo** » Sun Oct 25, 2009 10:51 pm

I get the feeling that the different adventure paths are meant to cater to different sort of crowds.

Roy · Post by **Roy** » Sun Oct 25, 2009 10:53 pm

Ok, Marilith Rogue 12. All competent characters are immune to SA at that level. Since it's Paizils designing her, they didn't design her to bypass said immunity. Ergo, lots of free XP and loot, since she's not much better than a base Marilith.

FatR · Post by **FatR** » Sun Oct 25, 2009 11:36 pm

virgileso wrote:In Rise of the Runelords, you get to hunt down one of seven formerly country-ruling archmages orchestrating the entire adventure path, bestowing upon the party his spoils and a gilded city (more money than you can shake a stick at); all by level 15 or 16.

That's why I actually like RotR. Well, the party is still supposed to just run around, conveniently handling all threats before anything seriously disturbs the normal way of life (if I ever get to really continue my RotR run, the bad guys will definitely wreck a country or two by the end to demonstrate that they mean businness: also, the BBEG's chief lieutenants need something other to do than dogpiling the party immediately or acting like mobs), but at least they can just declare themselves kings of the surrounding lands afterwards.

TOZ · Post by **TOZ** » Wed Nov 04, 2009 5:45 am

Posed the question about SD in their GM thread. No answer as of yet.

Also, Improved Natural Attack is being errataed to no longer be accessible to monks.

James Jacobs wrote:Jason crunched his numbers and the official errata is this—the Improved Natural Attack feat can not be applied to unarmed strike. We'll be issuing an errata for that feat that adds this sentence to the feat:

"Improved Natural Attack can not be applied to unarmed strikes."

Unarmed strikes ARE still treated as natural weapons for most effects (particularly for the spell magic fang and for amulets of magic fang), but the Improved Natural Attack feat is an exception to that rule.

I love exception based design. -_-

virgil · Post by **virgil** » Wed Nov 04, 2009 6:42 am

That got me reading the thread. James is actually pulling the RAI card, because he had been working under the assumption a monk couldn't take it back in 3.5. He also brought in the argument that it shouldn't be allowed because it would end up like Natural Spell is for druids, a virtual requirement for the class. Please ignore the fact that Natural Spell remains on the feat list...

TOZ · Post by **TOZ** » Wed Nov 04, 2009 6:47 am

Did you like his waffling back and forth? Sounded like a politician.

MGuy · Post by **MGuy** » Wed Nov 04, 2009 8:45 am

virgileso wrote:That got me reading the thread. James is actually pulling the RAI card, because he had been working under the assumption a monk couldn't take it back in 3.5. He also brought in the argument that it shouldn't be allowed because it would end up like Natural Spell is for druids, a virtual requirement for the class. Please ignore the fact that Natural Spell remains on the feat list...

Improved Unnatural attack is like Natural spell?!

TOZ · Post by **TOZ** » Wed Nov 04, 2009 8:58 am

MGuy wrote: Improved Unnatural attack is like Natural spell?!

Amusing as it sounds. We're talking about how monks without INA don't exist the same as druids without Natural Spell don't exist.

hogarth · Post by **hogarth** » Wed Nov 04, 2009 11:44 am

TOZ wrote:
MGuy wrote: Improved Unnatural attack is like Natural spell?!
Amusing as it sounds. We're talking about how monks without INA don't exist the same as druids without Natural Spell don't exist.

I liked how he implied it was too powerful because a monk's unarmed strike would leap from 1d8 damage to 2d6 damage at level 7. Yes, let's ban all feats that add 2.5 damage to your attack -- they will shatter the game in twain!

TOZ · Post by **TOZ** » Wed Nov 04, 2009 11:47 am

I think I'm going to house rule that fighters can't use greatswords until 16th level. Cause that's totally overpowered. James says so.

Psychic Robot · Post by **Psychic Robot** » Wed Nov 04, 2009 11:48 am

This makes me very, very angry. Jason "crunched the numbers"? Really? Because Improved Natural Attack + enlarge person + the Vital Strike line made monks not incredibly pathetic.

TOZ · Post by **TOZ** » Wed Nov 04, 2009 11:53 am

Well, you see PR, the crew over there is doing a very smart thing, by letting people play 3rd and 4th in the same game.

If you want to play Rocket Launcher Tag, you pick a caster. If you want to play Padded Sumo, you pick a beatstick.

Hey, I think they can even accomodate 1e and 2e. If you want to have great roleplaying and die horribly, pick the Bard!

Roy · Post by **Roy** » Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:06 pm

Yes, because playing RLT when not everyone has the standard armaments is an excellent idea.

Archmage · Post by **Archmage** » Wed Nov 04, 2009 9:53 pm

Someone clearly thinks so.

virgil · Post by **virgil** » Thu Nov 05, 2009 7:32 am

Well, it was looking like the Shield Master feat might be worth a damn.

Pathfinder Reference Document, Shield Master feat wrote:Add your shield's shield bonus to attacks and damage rolls made with the shield as if it was an enhancement bonus.

That would allow you to bash with your +1 heavy shield as if it were also enchanted as a +3 weapon, which works great for penetrating armor.

But they've 'clarified' that a magic shield has two bonuses; 'shield bonus' and 'shield enhancement bonus'. Since the feat only gives you an enhancement bonus to attack/damage equal to the 'shield bonus', the best you get is a +2 weapon; +3 if you also take Shield Focus.

Psychic Robot · Post by **Psychic Robot** » Thu Nov 05, 2009 7:41 am

The more Jason Bulmahn talks, the more nerfed noncasters become.

Leress · Post by **Leress** » Thu Nov 05, 2009 7:43 am

Why not just get shield spikes enhanced and call it a day and save a feat slot?

Psychic Robot · Post by **Psychic Robot** » Thu Nov 05, 2009 7:49 am

I think the idea was to get a +9 or so enhancement bonus on attack and damage rolls with shields, something you can't do otherwise. (It is unfortunate that you have to drop three feats to do so.) It's not great, of course, but it's something.

Leress · Post by **Leress** » Thu Nov 05, 2009 7:59 am

Psychic Robot wrote:I think the idea was to get a +9 or so enhancement bonus on attack and damage rolls with shields, something you can't do otherwise. (It is unfortunate that you have to drop three feats to do so.) It's not great, of course, but it's something.

It's not worth a +4/5 to hit and damage.