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Avoraciopoctules
- Overlord
- Posts: 8624
- Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2008 5:48 pm
- Location: Oakland, CA
He wants a summoner who can switch out pokemon.
Which can totally be done by having a bunch of power lists and taking one off each for the different types of summons. Maybe also have a general list where you can take one off the general list, available in all forms, or one off each specific list, available only in that form. Then you just make Dailies into transformation powers, and you're set.
Mighty Slam (Encounter, deals increased damage and a status effect dependent on type) can be generic.
Spark Shower would be Fire form only, while Healing Wind is air only (if Air is the leader type, otherwise it's not Healing Wind)
Which can totally be done by having a bunch of power lists and taking one off each for the different types of summons. Maybe also have a general list where you can take one off the general list, available in all forms, or one off each specific list, available only in that form. Then you just make Dailies into transformation powers, and you're set.
Mighty Slam (Encounter, deals increased damage and a status effect dependent on type) can be generic.
Spark Shower would be Fire form only, while Healing Wind is air only (if Air is the leader type, otherwise it's not Healing Wind)
"No, you can't burn the inn down. It's made of solid fire."
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Lago PARANOIA
- Invincible Overlord
- Posts: 10555
- Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2008 3:00 am
Summoner implements should not add to attack and damage. If you insist on summoners having to hold their rods and orbs while screaming orders at their slave, implements should give the summoned critter new powers or properties.
Josh Kablack wrote:Your freedom to make rulings up on the fly is in direct conflict with my freedom to interact with an internally consistent narrative. Your freedom to run/play a game without needing to understand a complex rule system is in direct conflict with my freedom to play a character whose abilities and flaws function as I intended within that ruleset. Your freedom to add and change rules in the middle of the game is in direct conflict with my ability to understand that rules system before I decided whether or not to join your game.
In short, your entire post is dismissive of not merely my intelligence, but my agency. And I don't mean agency as a player within one of your games, I mean my agency as a person. You do not want me to be informed when I make the fundamental decisions of deciding whether to join your game or buying your rules system.
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Lago PARANOIA
- Invincible Overlord
- Posts: 10555
- Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2008 3:00 am
I gotta ask, though.
For people who actually are on the 4-encounter workday like people should be, how the hell is a summoner supposed to keep up?
I admit, most of my low-level 4E games rarely had more than 2 encounters in a day, but there's gotta be someone who does the whole nine yards. And considering how pissed-off barbarian players get when they're forced to do the next fight with no raging, I wonder how you're going to pull this off with summoners.
For people who actually are on the 4-encounter workday like people should be, how the hell is a summoner supposed to keep up?
I admit, most of my low-level 4E games rarely had more than 2 encounters in a day, but there's gotta be someone who does the whole nine yards. And considering how pissed-off barbarian players get when they're forced to do the next fight with no raging, I wonder how you're going to pull this off with summoners.
Josh Kablack wrote:Your freedom to make rulings up on the fly is in direct conflict with my freedom to interact with an internally consistent narrative. Your freedom to run/play a game without needing to understand a complex rule system is in direct conflict with my freedom to play a character whose abilities and flaws function as I intended within that ruleset. Your freedom to add and change rules in the middle of the game is in direct conflict with my ability to understand that rules system before I decided whether or not to join your game.
In short, your entire post is dismissive of not merely my intelligence, but my agency. And I don't mean agency as a player within one of your games, I mean my agency as a person. You do not want me to be informed when I make the fundamental decisions of deciding whether to join your game or buying your rules system.
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Username17
- Serious Badass
- Posts: 29894
- Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm
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Lago PARANOIA
- Invincible Overlord
- Posts: 10555
- Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2008 3:00 am
Why couldn't Barbarian rage/Warden polymorphing have worked like that?
Josh Kablack wrote:Your freedom to make rulings up on the fly is in direct conflict with my freedom to interact with an internally consistent narrative. Your freedom to run/play a game without needing to understand a complex rule system is in direct conflict with my freedom to play a character whose abilities and flaws function as I intended within that ruleset. Your freedom to add and change rules in the middle of the game is in direct conflict with my ability to understand that rules system before I decided whether or not to join your game.
In short, your entire post is dismissive of not merely my intelligence, but my agency. And I don't mean agency as a player within one of your games, I mean my agency as a person. You do not want me to be informed when I make the fundamental decisions of deciding whether to join your game or buying your rules system.
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Avoraciopoctules
- Overlord
- Posts: 8624
- Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2008 5:48 pm
- Location: Oakland, CA
For anyone who is interested in WikiProgress: the way they seem to do extension configuration on Wikia is weird, and the guys at tech support have to "make a request to get this added to our configuration system, so that we can override its setting for that wiki." Hopefully they do all that soon so we can have functional navigation pages and thus a functional wiki.
This is my first post; normally I just lurk. I like that you guys have a working system for people to host their homebrew creations. I might toss up a homebrew class of my own this week. I was looking through the classes for inspiration, and I had a few questions as to how the Bane Guard was created.
The first thing I was wondering about is the HP. It seems like the Bane Guard has more HP than the base classes from the books. I compared against the classes from the Compendium, and I only noticed about four classes that had more default HP than the Bane Guard, and then the Bane Guard gets his constitution applied twice. There were a few classes with 15 base and one with 17, but since it gets constitution twice, the Bane Guard is likely to start with 5-10 more HP than any other class unless the character has a Con of maybe 10. What made you choose to give the Bane Guard more HP than any other character?
I saw the same situation with the healing surges. The highest class aside from the Bane Guard starts with 10 healing surges plus con mod, but the Bane Guard starts with 12 healing surges plus con mod, plus con mod again. The average Bane Guard is likely to start with half a dozen more healing surges than any other character would have. That seems over powered to me, so I was wondering what the reasoning was.
The Bane Guard also has a surprisingly large amount of proficiencies. It starts out with every armor proficiency automatically, and the only other class to do that is the Paladin, and the Bane Guard gets more HP and healing surges on top of that. Why did you decide the Bane Guard should have access to all the armor along with the other bonuses?
The Bane Guard has way, way, way more at-wills than any other class. Many classes don't even have 8 at-will powers, let alone the ability to have access to them all at the same time. And no other class has at-wills at a level other than 1. This gives the Bane Guard a gigantic leg up over every other class. The Bane Guard's Killing Word level 29 at-will is almost as powerful as the Fighter's level 29 daily attack. They both do [5W] + mod. The only difference is that the fighter can use it against two opponents at once and it does half damage on a miss, but the Bane Guard can do it every single turn. Was it a conscious design decision to give the Bane Guard better at-wills than the dailies that other classes get? And with Dominating Presence, the Bane Guard can use that skill multiple times per round.
Tide of Battle is equally confusing. A level 5 Bane Guard surrounded by enemies could use Death Ribbon Revolution to hit every enemy and mark them, potentially damaging them and guaranteeing at least one round of reduced damage on their attacks.
Mole's Grasp is an at-will that does 1[W] and immobilizes. The Swordmage has an encounter power that does 1[W] + wisdom mod and immobilizes. There are only a few encounter powers that can immobilize. Usually that's restricted for a daily power, but you're giving it to an at-will?
Shadowy Assault does 4[W]+con mod and makes you invisible until the end of your next turn. Dimming Blow does 2[W]+dex mod and makes you invisible only to the target until the end of your next turn. Shadowy Assault does 2[W] more damage, makes you invisible to more creatures, and is available ten levels earlier, because Dimming Blow is level 11 and Shadowy Assault is level 1.
And this is all in the first level. What's the reason you made the Bane Guard so powerful? Did you intend for people to be able to play it with regular classes? It seems far too powerful for that to be workable, or do you disagree?
The first thing I was wondering about is the HP. It seems like the Bane Guard has more HP than the base classes from the books. I compared against the classes from the Compendium, and I only noticed about four classes that had more default HP than the Bane Guard, and then the Bane Guard gets his constitution applied twice. There were a few classes with 15 base and one with 17, but since it gets constitution twice, the Bane Guard is likely to start with 5-10 more HP than any other class unless the character has a Con of maybe 10. What made you choose to give the Bane Guard more HP than any other character?
I saw the same situation with the healing surges. The highest class aside from the Bane Guard starts with 10 healing surges plus con mod, but the Bane Guard starts with 12 healing surges plus con mod, plus con mod again. The average Bane Guard is likely to start with half a dozen more healing surges than any other character would have. That seems over powered to me, so I was wondering what the reasoning was.
The Bane Guard also has a surprisingly large amount of proficiencies. It starts out with every armor proficiency automatically, and the only other class to do that is the Paladin, and the Bane Guard gets more HP and healing surges on top of that. Why did you decide the Bane Guard should have access to all the armor along with the other bonuses?
The Bane Guard has way, way, way more at-wills than any other class. Many classes don't even have 8 at-will powers, let alone the ability to have access to them all at the same time. And no other class has at-wills at a level other than 1. This gives the Bane Guard a gigantic leg up over every other class. The Bane Guard's Killing Word level 29 at-will is almost as powerful as the Fighter's level 29 daily attack. They both do [5W] + mod. The only difference is that the fighter can use it against two opponents at once and it does half damage on a miss, but the Bane Guard can do it every single turn. Was it a conscious design decision to give the Bane Guard better at-wills than the dailies that other classes get? And with Dominating Presence, the Bane Guard can use that skill multiple times per round.
Tide of Battle is equally confusing. A level 5 Bane Guard surrounded by enemies could use Death Ribbon Revolution to hit every enemy and mark them, potentially damaging them and guaranteeing at least one round of reduced damage on their attacks.
Mole's Grasp is an at-will that does 1[W] and immobilizes. The Swordmage has an encounter power that does 1[W] + wisdom mod and immobilizes. There are only a few encounter powers that can immobilize. Usually that's restricted for a daily power, but you're giving it to an at-will?
Shadowy Assault does 4[W]+con mod and makes you invisible until the end of your next turn. Dimming Blow does 2[W]+dex mod and makes you invisible only to the target until the end of your next turn. Shadowy Assault does 2[W] more damage, makes you invisible to more creatures, and is available ten levels earlier, because Dimming Blow is level 11 and Shadowy Assault is level 1.
And this is all in the first level. What's the reason you made the Bane Guard so powerful? Did you intend for people to be able to play it with regular classes? It seems far too powerful for that to be workable, or do you disagree?
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Username17
- Serious Badass
- Posts: 29894
- Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm
The doubled Constitution adding is a glitch of the wiki code right now. I seriously do not know why it says that right now - if you check the code write up, the Constitution is only added one time. It wasn't doing that earlier, I don't know what's going on.
4[W] is substantially less damage than any two attacks power. Jaws of the Wolf out of the PHB1 is much larger than a Bane Guard's Shadowy Assault. Even before you consider the Ranger's quarry feature and shit.
I jovially have no respect whatsoever for the arbitrary restrictions that the 4e designers put on themselves. There is no logical reason for an attack to cap out at 3[W]+stat if you have attacks at the same level that give you two attacks at 2[W]+stat. That's one more W, and twice all your other bonuses!
-Username17
4[W] is substantially less damage than any two attacks power. Jaws of the Wolf out of the PHB1 is much larger than a Bane Guard's Shadowy Assault. Even before you consider the Ranger's quarry feature and shit.
I jovially have no respect whatsoever for the arbitrary restrictions that the 4e designers put on themselves. There is no logical reason for an attack to cap out at 3[W]+stat if you have attacks at the same level that give you two attacks at 2[W]+stat. That's one more W, and twice all your other bonuses!
-Username17
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RandomCasualty2
- Prince
- Posts: 3295
- Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 4:22 pm
Why not just give him an encounter summoning power? And say he can only have one summon active at one time, or something like that. So for most of his battles he summons an ogre or something, but for one battle with his daily he summons something uber.Lago PARANOIA wrote: For people who actually are on the 4-encounter workday like people should be, how the hell is a summoner supposed to keep up?
Now that I'm starting to put some stuff up, it occurs to me to ask, who's on the Rating Committee? I don't think you have a page listing them anywhere, although you say that they'll be operating in the open when they start operating, and have them picked out already.
"No, you can't burn the inn down. It's made of solid fire."
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DragonChild
- Knight-Baron
- Posts: 583
- Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 7:39 am
May I just say how much Green Dragon and Hooper burn my ass?
Over on That Other D&D Wiki, GD marked the Tome category for deletion, saying there's 'way too many things which use the Tome name' for the Tome category to exist (I did a wiki search. There's four non-Tome things with Tome in the name. Three of the are the stat-boosting items, the fourth is the Tome of Battle.
Anyway, when I pointed out that another name would work, GD acted like I hadn't said anything.
Sigh.
Anyway, I'm making a category (F&K-based) and moving the Tome page's contents over there.
The automatic alphabetizing gets on my nerves, though. I wish I could divide it up into classes, prestige classes, feats, and so on.
Over on That Other D&D Wiki, GD marked the Tome category for deletion, saying there's 'way too many things which use the Tome name' for the Tome category to exist (I did a wiki search. There's four non-Tome things with Tome in the name. Three of the are the stat-boosting items, the fourth is the Tome of Battle.
Anyway, when I pointed out that another name would work, GD acted like I hadn't said anything.
Sigh.
Anyway, I'm making a category (F&K-based) and moving the Tome page's contents over there.
The automatic alphabetizing gets on my nerves, though. I wish I could divide it up into classes, prestige classes, feats, and so on.
He jumps like a damned dragoon, and charges into battle fighting rather insane monsters with little more than his bare hands and rather nasty spell effects conjured up solely through knowledge and the local plantlife. He unerringly knows where his goal lies, he breathes underwater and is untroubled by space travel, seems to have no limits to his actual endurance and favors killing his enemies by driving both boots square into their skull. His agility is unmatched, and his strength legendary, able to fling about a turtle shell big enough to contain a man with enough force to barrel down a near endless path of unfortunates.
--The horror of Mario
Zak S, Zak Smith, Dndwithpornstars, Zak Sabbath. He is a terrible person and a hack at writing and art. His cultural contributions are less than Justin Bieber's, and he's a shitmuffin. Go go gadget Googlebomb!
--The horror of Mario
Zak S, Zak Smith, Dndwithpornstars, Zak Sabbath. He is a terrible person and a hack at writing and art. His cultural contributions are less than Justin Bieber's, and he's a shitmuffin. Go go gadget Googlebomb!
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Avoraciopoctules
- Overlord
- Posts: 8624
- Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2008 5:48 pm
- Location: Oakland, CA
When I want to feel a combination of irritation, amusement, and slight horror, GD's talk page is on my short list of bookmarks.
I'm still thinking about making that bonded elemental class. I figure that I'll just edit the animal companion stat block into something like the following:
MAGE STATISTICS
Ability Scores: Strength 10, Constitution 10, Dexterity 10, Intelligence 14, Wisdom 14, Charisma 14
Size: Medium
Speed: 6 squares
Defenses: AC 12 + level, Fortitude 11 + level, Reflex 11 + level, Will 14 + level.
Hit Points: 12 + 6 per level
Attack Bonus: Level + 4
Damage: 1d6
Limited Immortality If its hit points are depleted, the mage is not killed, merely knocked unconscious until healed. While the mage is knocked unconscious, the Bonded Elemental takes a point of unavoidable damage every round. The mage only dies if the Bonded Elemental is also dead.
Elemental Blast (Basic Attack) Level + 4 vs. AC, 1d10 + Charisma modifier damage. Damage is energy corresponding with elemental type, can be used in melee or out to 10 range.
Elemental Bomb (Encounter Power) Level + 6 vs. AC in a Burst 3, 1d10 + Level + Charisma modifier damage. Damage is energy corresponding with elemental type, can be used out to 10 range.
Teleport (Encounter Power) Teleport to a square within range 10.
Trained Skills Arcana, Diplomacy
I'm still thinking about making that bonded elemental class. I figure that I'll just edit the animal companion stat block into something like the following:
MAGE STATISTICS
Ability Scores: Strength 10, Constitution 10, Dexterity 10, Intelligence 14, Wisdom 14, Charisma 14
Size: Medium
Speed: 6 squares
Defenses: AC 12 + level, Fortitude 11 + level, Reflex 11 + level, Will 14 + level.
Hit Points: 12 + 6 per level
Attack Bonus: Level + 4
Damage: 1d6
Limited Immortality If its hit points are depleted, the mage is not killed, merely knocked unconscious until healed. While the mage is knocked unconscious, the Bonded Elemental takes a point of unavoidable damage every round. The mage only dies if the Bonded Elemental is also dead.
Elemental Blast (Basic Attack) Level + 4 vs. AC, 1d10 + Charisma modifier damage. Damage is energy corresponding with elemental type, can be used in melee or out to 10 range.
Elemental Bomb (Encounter Power) Level + 6 vs. AC in a Burst 3, 1d10 + Level + Charisma modifier damage. Damage is energy corresponding with elemental type, can be used out to 10 range.
Teleport (Encounter Power) Teleport to a square within range 10.
Trained Skills Arcana, Diplomacy
Just making sure some stuff doesn't get raped by him/them. I mean, other people use the other wiki, too, so I might as well make an effort to see the Tome stuff is still on there, and it's still whole and all that.Surgo wrote:Why are you even bothering with the other wiki, Maxus? It's been clear for months (at least since we forked) that the owner was worthless.
Hooper pisses me off, though. He has the gall to be one of the most condescending jackasses I've seen in years...and then put up a wiki policy saying rudeness is not allowed. And, by extension, GD as well, since he only enforces the rules when it suits him (IE, Hooper is free and clear despite treating people in a way that would get his teeth knocked out if he did it to someone in person.)
Anyway, yeah. I'll just go on and make the new F&K category, and go back to lurking there.
He jumps like a damned dragoon, and charges into battle fighting rather insane monsters with little more than his bare hands and rather nasty spell effects conjured up solely through knowledge and the local plantlife. He unerringly knows where his goal lies, he breathes underwater and is untroubled by space travel, seems to have no limits to his actual endurance and favors killing his enemies by driving both boots square into their skull. His agility is unmatched, and his strength legendary, able to fling about a turtle shell big enough to contain a man with enough force to barrel down a near endless path of unfortunates.
--The horror of Mario
Zak S, Zak Smith, Dndwithpornstars, Zak Sabbath. He is a terrible person and a hack at writing and art. His cultural contributions are less than Justin Bieber's, and he's a shitmuffin. Go go gadget Googlebomb!
--The horror of Mario
Zak S, Zak Smith, Dndwithpornstars, Zak Sabbath. He is a terrible person and a hack at writing and art. His cultural contributions are less than Justin Bieber's, and he's a shitmuffin. Go go gadget Googlebomb!
I really wouldn't bother trying to make that old wiki more usable in any way; just redirect people to the new place that actually makes sense. Nobody really uses the old one -- from everything people told me, they all avoided it because there was no such thing as quality control (something I've tried, and imo succeeded, in fixing with the new wiki).
Last edited by Surgo on Thu Oct 22, 2009 2:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
I've considered it. Decided putting up a link to the new one wouldn't last that long in the face of G. 'Orwell' Dragon.Surgo wrote:I really wouldn't bother trying to make that old wiki more usable in any way; just redirect people to the new place that actually makes sense.
Well, I'll see how it goes in a day or two. If GD goes off the deep end on this, I'm turning off the update e-mails and ignoring it from now on.
He jumps like a damned dragoon, and charges into battle fighting rather insane monsters with little more than his bare hands and rather nasty spell effects conjured up solely through knowledge and the local plantlife. He unerringly knows where his goal lies, he breathes underwater and is untroubled by space travel, seems to have no limits to his actual endurance and favors killing his enemies by driving both boots square into their skull. His agility is unmatched, and his strength legendary, able to fling about a turtle shell big enough to contain a man with enough force to barrel down a near endless path of unfortunates.
--The horror of Mario
Zak S, Zak Smith, Dndwithpornstars, Zak Sabbath. He is a terrible person and a hack at writing and art. His cultural contributions are less than Justin Bieber's, and he's a shitmuffin. Go go gadget Googlebomb!
--The horror of Mario
Zak S, Zak Smith, Dndwithpornstars, Zak Sabbath. He is a terrible person and a hack at writing and art. His cultural contributions are less than Justin Bieber's, and he's a shitmuffin. Go go gadget Googlebomb!
Interesting day on the old wiki. I checked some of GD's stuff a while back, and gave up on getting him to concede anything. He negated someone's rating of the Summoner by claiming the class was 'in the template stages, at best'. The dude is really, really arbitrary and, I would say, Lawful Dumb.
So now I just keep an eye on it and check when a Tome thread/talk page is altered to make sure no one's running around changing shit.
Anyway, both the Conduit and the Bone Rider have gotten some interest. Someone actually had a good question on the Bone Rider, about how a condensed spell progression is affected/affected other classes which continue divine spellcasting.
So now I just keep an eye on it and check when a Tome thread/talk page is altered to make sure no one's running around changing shit.
Anyway, both the Conduit and the Bone Rider have gotten some interest. Someone actually had a good question on the Bone Rider, about how a condensed spell progression is affected/affected other classes which continue divine spellcasting.
He jumps like a damned dragoon, and charges into battle fighting rather insane monsters with little more than his bare hands and rather nasty spell effects conjured up solely through knowledge and the local plantlife. He unerringly knows where his goal lies, he breathes underwater and is untroubled by space travel, seems to have no limits to his actual endurance and favors killing his enemies by driving both boots square into their skull. His agility is unmatched, and his strength legendary, able to fling about a turtle shell big enough to contain a man with enough force to barrel down a near endless path of unfortunates.
--The horror of Mario
Zak S, Zak Smith, Dndwithpornstars, Zak Sabbath. He is a terrible person and a hack at writing and art. His cultural contributions are less than Justin Bieber's, and he's a shitmuffin. Go go gadget Googlebomb!
--The horror of Mario
Zak S, Zak Smith, Dndwithpornstars, Zak Sabbath. He is a terrible person and a hack at writing and art. His cultural contributions are less than Justin Bieber's, and he's a shitmuffin. Go go gadget Googlebomb!
That is actually a bit tricky, as the 'Behavioral Policy" (created in the middle of last month by Hooper) actually expressly forbids linking to 'conflicting interests or competitive websites'.Surgo wrote:Feel free to direct anyone who asks a good question over to the new wiki.
The policy also has a number of minor things which basically mean Den-style debate is not allowed.
Also, I just realized. GD is a freakin' Green Dragon. He swoops in out of nowhere in a bad temper, exhales poisonous fumes all over the place which choke everyone else, and refuses to be listened to because he's the god-damned dragon and we're the god-damned peasants.
He jumps like a damned dragoon, and charges into battle fighting rather insane monsters with little more than his bare hands and rather nasty spell effects conjured up solely through knowledge and the local plantlife. He unerringly knows where his goal lies, he breathes underwater and is untroubled by space travel, seems to have no limits to his actual endurance and favors killing his enemies by driving both boots square into their skull. His agility is unmatched, and his strength legendary, able to fling about a turtle shell big enough to contain a man with enough force to barrel down a near endless path of unfortunates.
--The horror of Mario
Zak S, Zak Smith, Dndwithpornstars, Zak Sabbath. He is a terrible person and a hack at writing and art. His cultural contributions are less than Justin Bieber's, and he's a shitmuffin. Go go gadget Googlebomb!
--The horror of Mario
Zak S, Zak Smith, Dndwithpornstars, Zak Sabbath. He is a terrible person and a hack at writing and art. His cultural contributions are less than Justin Bieber's, and he's a shitmuffin. Go go gadget Googlebomb!
