Roleplaying 101

[shadzar]

Her Engrish may be bad, but her sucky sucky only 5 dolla.

[ckafrica]

See that is the kind of bigotted statement we try to avoid. Asian bar girls are a million times more sophisticated than lame tropes from ignorant sex tourist.

The asian bar girl is a tragic figure who finds herself in position between survival and tradition. Often sacrificed by her family in order to help pay for the rest of her siblings, if she hasn't outright be sold into slavery, she is a providing pariah.

She has been abused, let down by promise after promise of men assuring her that they will take her out of this squalor of their lives. They are regularly exposed to the worst of humanity and yet persevere. They develop defenses and strategies to not only cope with but even at times thrive off those there to exploit them.

[shadzar]

See that is the kind of bigotted statement we try to avoid. Asian bar girls are a million times more sophisticated than lame tropes from ignorant sex tourist.

What's you major malfunction numbnuts! From now on I am gonna call you Gomer Pyle.

You think Asian women are so stupid to not be able to come up with the oldest profession on Earth by themselves, and think they are incapable of taking advantage of the horndog male of the species? You also think everyone would go for the glasses wearing girls like an otaku? Some people like women on the trashy side, and those appealing to that large number of people will likely have plenty of business and opportunity to take advantage of their clients.

Not to mention there are more of them that your dream girl.

Check history and you will find women came up with prostitution, not men. They always used their wiles to usurp power from men. That is why we try to keep women in check now, otherwise they would be running the world!

[/sarcasm]

[Roy]

See that is the kind of bigotted statement we try to avoid. Asian bar girls are a million times more sophisticated than lame tropes from ignorant sex tourist.

The asian bar girl is a tragic figure who finds herself in position between survival and tradition. Often sacrificed by her family in order to help pay for the rest of her siblings, if she hasn't outright be sold into slavery, she is a providing pariah.

She has been abused, let down by promise after promise of men assuring her that they will take her out of this squalor of their lives. They are regularly exposed to the worst of humanity and yet persevere. They develop defenses and strategies to not only cope with but even at times thrive off those there to exploit them.

Dude. It's fucking Shadtard. Why are you even trying?

[ckafrica]

Uhm..., did you not see my location? I used to work with the minister for women's affairs in Cambodia and have spent 5 years living in major sex tourist centers and have several friends who are bar girls. I think my grasp on the matter is slightly indepth than yours.

Roy: yes I know, I wouldn't have even noticed had I not been logged off and there lost my ignores

[shadzar]

So you only know about the 3rd world Asia countries? Not Japan, Russia (whatever it is called these days), China.


Rather than non-industrialized Asia countries. And don't even think that no prostitution happens in roleplaying. IF you don't like it, then don't participate, but it does as it IS the oldest profession.

[Crissa]

Vietnam is an industrialized nation. Being caught in the war between western corporations and socialism, they - like much of the world - have yet to depopulate the rural lands and fight for equal representation of farm workers vs factory workers.

Making fun of an old trope of the wench who's learned a few bits of occupier language to bring home cash worth far more than anyone else is earning in months is old and a bit offensive, shad.

-Crissa

[shadzar]

It is the age of it that lends credibility to it in a roleplaying game of the era.

How do you think prostitutes work in RPGs? You think they are all on Wall Street, going for dinner meetings and then a night cap in an expensive hotel room?

"Going for a roll in the hay", usually meant the prostitute found a stable and did just that. Her and the customer were rolling around in the hay.

[Gnosticism Is A Hoot]

It is the age of it that lends credibility to it in a roleplaying game of the era.

How do you think prostitutes work in RPGs? You think they are all on Wall Street, going for dinner meetings and then a night cap in an expensive hotel room?

"Going for a roll in the hay", usually meant the prostitute found a stable and did just that. Her and the customer were rolling around in the hay.

I still don't know why prostitutes *have* to be in the game at all. Sure, prostitutes have been pretty common in all historical eras, but so have facial tumours and tapeworms. I can't remember the last time I saw any of those in an RPG.

[ckafrica]

C: Well I was the one to suggest it as a archetype but rather as a hustler extraordinaire rather than a simple down-on-her-luck "5 dolla sucky" country girl.

My idea is a free and powerful woman who manipulates men in a game the men think they running. She doesn't do no 5 dollar sucky.

This rather than the nearly (if not outright) enslaved brothel girl who has been completely cut off from her social safety net, emotionally and physically abused, hooked on drugs, and reduced to a mere commodity that will exploited ruthlessly until she is a burnt out husk ready to be thrown away.

Shad: Dude seriously, do you have even the slightest clue what you're talking about? Japan has had indentured prostitutes since god knows when. The Geisha were contractual slaves who had little choice regarding how they would live; and they were the most pampered elite of the Japanese escort industry.
Now I'm sure there are Japanese prostitutes now who aren't. I know from people who have been there that there is a fair amount of prostitution amongst students hard up for cash. But that is a post war phenomenon. And remember that Yakuza are alive and well.
But that's Japan, as for the rest of the region, prostitution is nearly exclusively a result of dire economic straights. Most Cambodian brothel prostitutes are indentured still; their family sells them off to help pay for the rest. Especially girls getting older, (25) as they are considered past their prime and unlikely to get married (and therefore not attract the bride price for the family). A girl I knew was literally nabbed off the street because her uncle who had been taking care of her, sold her off because he need cash. Girls are regularly taken out of Vietnam to work in other countries, ostensibly as domestic or manufacturing labor, only to be subjugated into brothels, never to be heard from again. These cons are particularly nasty because sometimes the girls have actually paid the placement company for the position.
Even the freelancers rarely have gone to the job by choice. With wages of less than $100 a month; many girls who have taken on caretaker or money maker responsibilities get into it because it is their only way to meet their obligations. Now these are the girls who are likely to be the players as they can learn the game at their own pace rather than being sent out like cattle.

[shadzar]

It is the age of it that lends credibility to it in a roleplaying game of the era.

How do you think prostitutes work in RPGs? You think they are all on Wall Street, going for dinner meetings and then a night cap in an expensive hotel room?

"Going for a roll in the hay", usually meant the prostitute found a stable and did just that. Her and the customer were rolling around in the hay.

I still don't know why prostitutes *have* to be in the game at all. Sure, prostitutes have been pretty common in all historical eras, but so have facial tumours and tapeworms. I can't remember the last time I saw any of those in an RPG.

They don't have to be, but odds are they are. I was just trying to say that being the oldest profession, they would be present in the shadows if never interacted with or observed. And they are probably working in whatever way they see fit, not by some new-aged methods, but the tried and true ones.

I wouldn't want to play in a game that doesn't imply prostitution exists, otherwise you have a bunch of men living together all the time as bandits and well.....

Not something I want to picture them having a pickle party, or sausage fest, while I am trying to have fun in a game.

You should check out the old netbooks from Olik and others if they are still online. Many rules for people that need them for various diseases, otherwise a good read for just some flavor to what diseases were in the times some RPGs are played in.

Of course the netbook of carnal knowledge includes rules for prostitution, pregnancy, STDs, VDs, etc.

[Kobajagrande]

I wouldn't want to play in a game that doesn't imply prostitution exists,

Damn my bad habit of feeling shame for someone else.

[Gnosticism Is A Hoot]

I wouldn't want to play in a game that doesn't imply prostitution exists, otherwise you have a bunch of men living together all the time as bandits and well.....

Not something I want to picture them having a pickle party, or sausage fest, while I am trying to have fun in a game.

What the actual flying fuck?

Prostitutes are a must-have, but you'd rather pretend gay people didn't exist?

I don't even know where to start with that one.

I guess I'll just say that I have no problem at all with gay people, but I'd rather not picture the systematic abuse of women in my games (which is what prostitution usually was and is).

EDIT: Shadzar, before you respond to this post, bear in mind that you will be responding to a person who actually thinks pickle parties are pretty nifty.

EDIT THE SECOND: ckafricka, I don't have a massive problem with that sort of archetype handled in the way you describe. I mean, I wouldn't play it, and I might feel a bit uncomfortable if the profession was unduly glamourised, but it wouldn't be a dealbreaker for me.

[shadzar]

I said I don't want to think prostitutes don't exist and all there is are pickle parties.

Half the people I recently played with were gay/bi. But they didn't have the whole game implied to be gay. None were uncomfortable with women pros, and they wanted them as well to make the world seems more real.

Well they often talked ideas over about getting men in the game.... :yuck:

But it wasn't the focus of the game, and everything wasn't assumed to be gay.

I guess you could say they were gay and comfortable to have hetero themes in the game. They don't like all things gay because there is no fun if everyone is the same.

So see the difference in what was said, versus what you read?

Having prostitutes, and not all sausage fests, didn't mean what you thought it meant.

Hell, I never even said having only women prostitutes.

I just don't want all groups of men in the game to satisfy themselves with themselves to be implied.

I don't use hookers in the game, but don't deny others the right to have them. I don't need an RPG to get laid, but it has to happen or otherwise where do the characters of lower classes come from?

NOTE: Crissa I think is also bi...or complete gay. But doesn't go around forcing it into every conversation, because it does not define them on the forums. So frankly keep that in mind, I don't care what you are, I will treat you equally like I treat others when you piss me off.

[Gnosticism Is A Hoot]

I said I don't want to think prostitutes don't exist and all there is are pickle parties.

Half the people I recently played with were gay/bi. But they didn't have the whole game implied to be gay. None were uncomfortable with women pros, and they wanted them as well to make the world seems more real.

Well they often talked ideas over about getting men in the game.... :yuck:

But it wasn't the focus of the game, and everything wasn't assumed to be gay.

I guess you could say they were gay and comfortable to have hetero themes in the game. They don't like all things gay because there is no fun if everyone is the same.

So see the difference in what was said, versus what you read?

Having prostitutes, and not all sausage fests, didn't mean what you thought it meant.

Hell, I never even said having only women prostitutes.

I just don't want all groups of men in the game to satisfy themselves with themselves to be implied.

I don't use hookers in the game, but don't deny others the right to have them. I don't need an RPG to get laid, but it has to happen or otherwise where do the characters of lower classes come from?

NOTE: Crissa I think is also bi...or complete gay. But doesn't go around forcing it into every conversation, because it does not define them on the forums. So frankly keep that in mind, I don't care what you are, I will treat you equally like I treat others when you piss me off.

I'm really not sure where I called for an 'all-gay' campaign world. I just don't think a lack of prostitutes automatically implies gay bandit orgies. Similarly, I don't remember calling for prostitutes to be banned from RPGs. I'm pretty sure I said I was fine with it as long as it wasn't overly glamourised.

Also, I'm glad to know that one relevant mention of my sexuality counts as 'forcing it into every conversation'. It's always good to hear that my inner Bi is shining through.

[shadzar]

Probably because after hearing it so much like people give a shit from many people who are gay and have to do everything in a "gay manner" it gets old. I really don't give a fuck if anyone is gay, black, martian, what-the-fuck-ever.

I don't go around in every post declaring I eat pussy, because it doesn't matter to the conversation. Your personal whatevers don't matter to RPGs.

If you want me to make my stance clear as you felt the need to previously, then pick the phrase you want to see in my signature.

-I bite beavers.
-I lick labias
-I munch boxes
-I eat carpet
-I am a cunning-linguist
-I snack on snatch
-I snack on snapper
-I chomp clits
-I have my red wings
-I eat sideways sloppy joes
-I like tacos
-I will floss camel toe with my tongue


Pick any phrase from this song http://www.veoh.com/search/videos/q/bob ... txlR0UTGMk

[Gnosticism Is A Hoot]

-snip- protesting too much

This is getting really rather off-topic, and I really can't imagine why I'm talking about sexuality on an RPG board, so I'll share one of my Roleplaying 101s instead:

Different games do different things. Different systems model different things better or worse than other systems. Games go much better if the whole group wants to do broadly the same kind of thing, and games go much better if the group is using the right system for the job.

Put more simply:

System Matters.

[shadzar]

But you agree with my point, that prostitution is likely to be a part of any RPG, given the age ranges that an RPG can span. Even if you don't use it, you can still see it likely to exist within them. The bar wench didn't work for tips afterall, and sometimes had to make extra money. (Elan's mother comes to mind here for OOTS as a good example.)

[Gnosticism Is A Hoot]

But you agree with my point, that prostitution is likely to be a part of any RPG, given the age ranges that an RPG can span. Even if you don't use it, you can still see it likely to exist within them. The bar wench didn't work for tips afterall, and sometimes had to make extra money. (Elan's mother comes to mind here for OOTS as a good example.)

Prostitutes only have to be in the game if you choose to put them in. In a realistic medieval or medieval fantasy world? Sure, it's background colour. Totally fits something like WFRP. I'm not sure it should just be an assumed part of most RPG settings.

[shadzar]

Not settings, but a part of the game as an option. Settings can do what they want even asexual reproduction of squares and spheres instead of humanoids, or star-bellied sneetches for all I care.

[Kobajagrande]

Is this leading toward some stalwart defense of the importance of paladin prostitutes in the game of D&D?

[shadzar]

Well if two things exist, there should be the ability to combine them if they are not in opposition of each others functions.

If you want holy hookers, then go for it!

[Judging__Eagle]

Different games do different things. Different systems model different things better or worse than other systems. Games go much better if the whole group wants to do broadly the same kind of thing, and games go much better if the group is using the right system for the job.

Put more simply:

System Matters.

Yes it does.

System matters more than people may expect.

It dictates:

[*]Where the game is on the horror-realism scale.

Little, or no, knowledge about what your characters can do. Is Horror. 1st Edition, and 2nd Editions od D&D are perfect examples of Horror-geared systems.

Lots of knowledge of PC capabilities is realistic. 3e and 4th Editions of D&D are not horror-based. Likewise, systems like BESM, Rifts, Shadowrun and others are decidedly not good for running a horror-based game.

[*] The average PC veterancy

Sometimes the system assumes you are callow youths; other times it assumes you're all hardcore veterans of a thousand skirmishes and a dozen pitched battles.

[*] Expected methods of power growth

If you have a system where any types of power sources synergize well; you'll see a lot of broad-basing of power.

A classless system, with non-diminishing returns in xp, will usually result in players trying to synergize all sorts of powers.

If you have a system where your level apporpriateness is based on how much you've specialized in your abilities; then obviously you are expected to focus your character development.

I've seen both; and both are good. However, they must obviously be in tune with the background.

[*] A bunch of other stuff

-there's more that system determines, I just can't think of any more just yet.

-NPC lethality/dangerousness
-PC lethality/dangerousness
-NPC survivability of encounters
-PC survivability of encounters
-How invasive "non-standard" items will be to the game. Is a 'well-made' weapon or armour a "big deal"? or do the experienced adventurers pack a bunch of magical gear to deal with problems?

[Psychic Robot]

I won't run a game for those that started with 3rd because they are too obsessed with shit.

Reading this forum when I'm not signed in is irritating because I can read shadzar's posts.

Her Engrish may be bad, but her sucky sucky only 5 dolla.

Getting offended by this is really lame.

[Mask_De_H]

Is this leading toward some stalwart defense of the importance of paladin prostitutes in the game of D&D?

I certainly hope not, even though the imagery is hilarious.

On topic, I never thought of it that way J_E, I always thought the setting trumped the rules. I also think that with D&D, the mechanics don't entirely matter with what you want to play as a character, although this might only be true with classes that grant you a lot of options. The horror/realism axis is interesting, but isn't it possible to run a horror-based game even if you know what you can do? Just because you know what you can do as a PC doesn't mean you know what you can do to what you may be facing. The crux of horror is not knowing what's out there, not what you can do to it.

3 and 4e seem to be bad for horror systems because the setting and the powers available to you are geared to cockslap all sorts of nasty beasts, whereas the abilities you have in say, Dark Heresy or Cosmic Bumfights either don't help you to stomp on/stand toe to toe with the enemies or actively messes with you as a character. Instead of realism, empowerment might be a better word. You know exactly what you can do in Cosmic Bumfights, but you're still a crazy hobo that is amongst a sea of chaos and unreality. Whereas in D&D, you have a good idea of what you're up against and are at least somewhat confident you can stab it in the face.