I know I shouldn't be ranting here about this topic, I've been trying to cut down on controversy, but I'm just really upset about this one.
Someone fairly close to me that I've been talking to (whose name shall remain nameless for the people off-board) recently confided in me that s/he believed in name-it-and-claim-it.
Oh, god, there's not the words. But I'll try anyway.
Out of all of the ambiguities in the Bible, especially concerning Jesus, one thing that he makes perfectly fucking clear is that making obscene amounts of money is antithetical to his religion. You'll have an easier time convincing me that Jesus was homosexual or had one arm or that he was Chinese than you will convincing me that he would ever endorse any part of the prosperity gospel.
I mean, geez! Those hucksters! How could they... fuck it, just fuck it.
Prosperity Gospel
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Lago PARANOIA
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Prosperity Gospel
Josh Kablack wrote:Your freedom to make rulings up on the fly is in direct conflict with my freedom to interact with an internally consistent narrative. Your freedom to run/play a game without needing to understand a complex rule system is in direct conflict with my freedom to play a character whose abilities and flaws function as I intended within that ruleset. Your freedom to add and change rules in the middle of the game is in direct conflict with my ability to understand that rules system before I decided whether or not to join your game.
In short, your entire post is dismissive of not merely my intelligence, but my agency. And I don't mean agency as a player within one of your games, I mean my agency as a person. You do not want me to be informed when I make the fundamental decisions of deciding whether to join your game or buying your rules system.
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Username17
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Josh_Kablack
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Have you tried the theological argument of beating them up and taking their stuff - thereby enhancing your own prosperity and reducing theirs, which would (within that theology) show that you were favored by god and they were not ?
"But transportation issues are social-justice issues. The toll of bad transit policies and worse infrastructure—trains and buses that don’t run well and badly serve low-income neighborhoods, vehicular traffic that pollutes the environment and endangers the lives of cyclists and pedestrians—is borne disproportionately by black and brown communities."
Google search gave me:
Basically, blatant theft by the rich of the poor as a religion.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosperity_gospel wrote:Prosperity theology (also known as prosperity doctrine, health and wealth, prosperity gospel) is a religious belief centered around the notion that God provides material prosperity for those he favors.[1] It implies both that people who are favored by God will be materially successful, and also that materially successful people are successful because God favored them. The prosperity gospel is often used by its promoters to elicit donations, on the premise that donations will be materially repaid and rewarded via divine intervention.
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Draco_Argentum
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It's a belief of Islam, I understand.Gelare wrote:I feel like I've heard this before in some religion that isn't Christianity, but it's not coming to me at the moment.
Which does cause them a bit of a conundrum when it comes to the US's prosperity. I think they resolved it by saying that the US only continues to be prosperous by continually stealing from other countries. This is the fundy Islam view, though. The mainstream stance is probably more moderate...
In fiction, it also popped up in Small Gods in the Omnian religion.
It also shows up in conservative arguments, saying that those who are worthy of achieving success will not be held back from doing so.
He jumps like a damned dragoon, and charges into battle fighting rather insane monsters with little more than his bare hands and rather nasty spell effects conjured up solely through knowledge and the local plantlife. He unerringly knows where his goal lies, he breathes underwater and is untroubled by space travel, seems to have no limits to his actual endurance and favors killing his enemies by driving both boots square into their skull. His agility is unmatched, and his strength legendary, able to fling about a turtle shell big enough to contain a man with enough force to barrel down a near endless path of unfortunates.
--The horror of Mario
Zak S, Zak Smith, Dndwithpornstars, Zak Sabbath. He is a terrible person and a hack at writing and art. His cultural contributions are less than Justin Bieber's, and he's a shitmuffin. Go go gadget Googlebomb!
--The horror of Mario
Zak S, Zak Smith, Dndwithpornstars, Zak Sabbath. He is a terrible person and a hack at writing and art. His cultural contributions are less than Justin Bieber's, and he's a shitmuffin. Go go gadget Googlebomb!
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The Lunatic Fringe
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Jesus on the prosperity gospel:
http://www.thebricktestament.com/the_te ... 12_15.html
And Maxus, recall that charity is one of the pillars of Islam. As in, you have to give a certain percentage (like 5% I think) of your cash to the poor every year. I don't think that they're to fond of excessive wealth, either.
http://www.thebricktestament.com/the_te ... 12_15.html
And Maxus, recall that charity is one of the pillars of Islam. As in, you have to give a certain percentage (like 5% I think) of your cash to the poor every year. I don't think that they're to fond of excessive wealth, either.
Last edited by The Lunatic Fringe on Fri Nov 27, 2009 4:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
In Islam it's actually politics, not wealth.
The idea was:
Our God favors us not you. So when we conquer you, clearly this is a sign from God to you, that we are better, and you must therefore convert to the obvious one true religion. After all, why would god let the wrong people win?
Of course, that worked great for about 600 years. And now they have to bullshittedly rationalize the fact that anyone can kick their ass in a fight.
The idea was:
Our God favors us not you. So when we conquer you, clearly this is a sign from God to you, that we are better, and you must therefore convert to the obvious one true religion. After all, why would god let the wrong people win?
Of course, that worked great for about 600 years. And now they have to bullshittedly rationalize the fact that anyone can kick their ass in a fight.
Unrestricted Diplomat 5314 wrote:Accept this truth, as the wisdom of the Crafted: when the oppressors and abusers have won, when the boot of the callous has already trampled you flat, you should always, always take your swing."
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Username17
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More specifically, "Name It and Take It" is a Christian splinter movement that believes that humans are all "little gods" because creatures make little versions of themselves within their own kind and the big god made humans in his image. This gives us the power to speak words of power through the holy spirit in the form of speaking in tongues that bring us stuff we want like money and sex if we then go out and act like a total douche to people who aren't Christian enough. The "Name It" part is when we babble magic words and imagine the shit we want and the "Take It" part iswhere we then use our newfound confidence to go cheat and steal it from people who aren't one-with-Jeezus enough to stop us.
Their embrace of Prosperity Gospel is only the tip of the iceberg of batshit crazy. I need to point this out: The Church of Mormon has come out and said that these guys are heretics with an antisocial power fantasy cult. Mormons say that about these assholes.
-Username17
Their embrace of Prosperity Gospel is only the tip of the iceberg of batshit crazy. I need to point this out: The Church of Mormon has come out and said that these guys are heretics with an antisocial power fantasy cult. Mormons say that about these assholes.
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Lago PARANOIA
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Edit: NM I don't feel like talking about it.
Last edited by Lago PARANOIA on Fri Nov 27, 2009 10:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
Josh Kablack wrote:Your freedom to make rulings up on the fly is in direct conflict with my freedom to interact with an internally consistent narrative. Your freedom to run/play a game without needing to understand a complex rule system is in direct conflict with my freedom to play a character whose abilities and flaws function as I intended within that ruleset. Your freedom to add and change rules in the middle of the game is in direct conflict with my ability to understand that rules system before I decided whether or not to join your game.
In short, your entire post is dismissive of not merely my intelligence, but my agency. And I don't mean agency as a player within one of your games, I mean my agency as a person. You do not want me to be informed when I make the fundamental decisions of deciding whether to join your game or buying your rules system.
Yeah, charity is a requirement, but I do recall a line saying that people are rewarded or punished both in this life or the next one.Narcissus wrote:
And Maxus, recall that charity is one of the pillars of Islam. As in, you have to give a certain percentage (like 5% I think) of your cash to the poor every year. I don't think that they're to fond of excessive wealth, either.
I remember a quote or something about it, but can't remember the exact words.
The upshot is, if you are successful, then you are successful because Allah likes you. If you are not, then Allah does not like you.
He jumps like a damned dragoon, and charges into battle fighting rather insane monsters with little more than his bare hands and rather nasty spell effects conjured up solely through knowledge and the local plantlife. He unerringly knows where his goal lies, he breathes underwater and is untroubled by space travel, seems to have no limits to his actual endurance and favors killing his enemies by driving both boots square into their skull. His agility is unmatched, and his strength legendary, able to fling about a turtle shell big enough to contain a man with enough force to barrel down a near endless path of unfortunates.
--The horror of Mario
Zak S, Zak Smith, Dndwithpornstars, Zak Sabbath. He is a terrible person and a hack at writing and art. His cultural contributions are less than Justin Bieber's, and he's a shitmuffin. Go go gadget Googlebomb!
--The horror of Mario
Zak S, Zak Smith, Dndwithpornstars, Zak Sabbath. He is a terrible person and a hack at writing and art. His cultural contributions are less than Justin Bieber's, and he's a shitmuffin. Go go gadget Googlebomb!
Actually, it seems like God wants as to give the money to him.Draco_Argentum wrote:If God wants to give people money thats nice, but he can damn well do it himself. Lazy bastard.clikml wrote:The prosperity gospel is often used by its promoters to elicit donations, on the premise that donations will be materially repaid and rewarded via divine intervention.
Joe, who plans to own Newall's Plumbing Company, asked the presidential hopeful about his plan to increase taxes for some Americans. He felt that Obama's increase plan may redistribute wealth.
"Robin Hood stole from greedy rich people and redistributed it to the peasants, so to speak, so if he's [Obama] calling us peasants, I kind of resent that," -Joe the Plumber, a Republican.
"Robin Hood stole from greedy rich people and redistributed it to the peasants, so to speak, so if he's [Obama] calling us peasants, I kind of resent that," -Joe the Plumber, a Republican.
In general, zakat (one of the five pillars) is around 2.5%.Narcissus wrote:And Maxus, recall that charity is one of the pillars of Islam. As in, you have to give a certain percentage (like 5% I think) of your cash to the poor every year. I don't think that they're to fond of excessive wealth, either.
My son makes me laugh. Maybe he'll make you laugh, too.
Re: Prosperity Gospel
Actually I would probably argue that this is not the case; but then I suppose people would be upset if I didn’t try to argue against them.Lago PARANOIA wrote:Out of all of the ambiguities in the Bible, especially concerning Jesus, one thing that he makes perfectly fucking clear is that making obscene amounts of money is antithetical to his religion.
The basic argument in the Gospels from Jesus is not that money is antithetical to the Good News but that it is often a focus that keeps a person from focusing on the Good News; in essence it becomes a goal in and of itself and one is then drawn from the real goal; self sacrificial love of neighbor as one in turn loves themselves.
This is also the same argument he uses against power, especially against the religious powers of the time, the Scribes and Pharisees.
In the case of money Jesus also makes the point that because of money it is impossible for anyone to be saved and it is only because of God that people can the seemingly impossible be done and people can be saved in the first place.
Never the less, the Prosperity Gospel is a false one. God does not award his holy ones more money; after all the Gospels state clearly that when a child asks for something he is not given a poisonous snake.
I would take the last argument even further and say that God doesn't award anyone with anything.
Joe, who plans to own Newall's Plumbing Company, asked the presidential hopeful about his plan to increase taxes for some Americans. He felt that Obama's increase plan may redistribute wealth.
"Robin Hood stole from greedy rich people and redistributed it to the peasants, so to speak, so if he's [Obama] calling us peasants, I kind of resent that," -Joe the Plumber, a Republican.
"Robin Hood stole from greedy rich people and redistributed it to the peasants, so to speak, so if he's [Obama] calling us peasants, I kind of resent that," -Joe the Plumber, a Republican.