Erotic Mind Control RPGs.

[Apalala]

I created a small little roleplaying game for two people to have fun pretending to enthrall the other.

http://docs.google.com/View?id=dfd7zxz_25ftm75gg7

My friend Vnonymous created his own and encouraged me to post both here.

http://pastebin.com/d248bdc69

So, any thoughts on our efforts?

[Username17]

Not generally the kind of thing I reach for when someone talks about "roleplaying." Just a cursory lookover your rules indicates to me that it's actually very susceptible to mathhammer and there is relatively little strategy. I mean, round 1 you Arouse. And round 2 you also Arouse. And you keep doing that until you either lose 2 in a row or your round bonus has gotten so intense that your Dominates are a slam dunk. Then you Dominate three times and get to the sexing (or whatever it is that you do at this point). The point is that since just juggling things for one round is worth +2, there is absolutely no point whatsoever in Draining. Similarly, since on the second round the attacker is coming in with +13 and that rises to +15 on round 3, there's really no point in doing anything except Resisting for the first several rounds and hoping for natural 20s. Bonuses now are worth more than bonuses later, so Distract and Counter don't really have a point. Even at the tipping point where Distract theoretically has a point in 10 when the attacked is about to switch to Dominate, there's still no point because the attacker actually knows you did that last turn before deciding his attack this turn. So really he just keeps arousal juggling for a few more rounds until his victory is all the more certain.

Cursory googling indicates that there is a place to research this material. Because, you know, this is the internet. And it's serious business. Major categories seem to include robots, fetish clothes, and bondage, so it seems like you could make a more satisfying RPS system out of that. Or something.

-Username17

[Apalala]

I guess I need to clarify the rules just a little bit, to supplement your cursory look. Arouse boosts your NEXT roll only. Drain boosts ALL of your attack rolls for the entire duel. So, it's not quite that easy to break the system.

Distract and counter have their uses because the defender always rolls second, and so gets to see the attacker's roll.. If the attacker makes a drain attempt and rolls a 1, there is little point in not using them for a bonus later.

Already a big fan of mcstories. I showed the system to them a while ago too, response was generally favorable.

[Username17]

I guess I need to clarify the rules just a little bit, to supplement your cursory look. Arouse boosts your NEXT roll only. Drain boosts ALL of your attack rolls for the entire duel.

That's obvious from what you wrote. And it doesn't matter. Because you are never going to Drain because juggling gives you a +2 each time. So you Arrouse (+7) and you probably win. Then next round you Arouse again for a +13 bonus. +7 because this is an arouse, +4 because you aroused last turn, and +2 because it's the second round. A winner is you. The only thing the attacker has to do is not lose round to round and they eventually are the winner. So the fact that arouse chains basically never lose means that you just sit around time wasting until your turn bonus is so titanic that it doesn't matter any more.

Distract and counter have their uses because the defender always rolls second, and so gets to see the attacker's roll.. If the attacker makes a drain attempt and rolls a 1, there is little point in not using them for a bonus later.

If the defender gets to see the attacker's roll before choosing, the tactics are even more blatantly obvious. If you have a chance of winning, you Resist, and if you don't have a chance of winning you Distract and hope for the best with your +11 next round. You're never going to Counter, because again and still the round bonus is +2 and the Defender cannot win a long match. Their only hope is to get in a few good hits in early.

Already a big fan of mcstories. I showed the system to them a while ago too, response was generally favorable.

God damn you internets!

-Username17

[Apalala]

Ah, my mistake. Let me quote the part you probably skipped then.

"The game is divided into rounds, and each round is made up of several turns."

Round here is more like a round in a boxing match. Round 2 doesn't happen until attacker and defender switch. I guess a better analogy would like football, where offense and defense switch.

[Vnonymous]

So you take turns autowinning?

Also, I'd like to think that my system is a bit more of a game, if a bit poorly presented.

[Josh_Kablack]

the person is under your complete control and the game is over.

Doesn't that miss the entire point of an erotic game for two players?

[Apalala]

So you take turns autowinning?

Also, I'd like to think that my system is a bit more of a game, if a bit poorly presented.

If you can see an exploit, feel free to point it out to me.

Yours is indeed a game. It's called paper-rock-scissors and it doesn't even pretend to be an rpg.

[Falgund]

It's even worse. During the first round, assuming you rolled 7 or more, you can sacrify your roll to 0, bringing your score to 31 points or more.
Even if your opponent rolled 20 and temporarily sacrificed his 10 points to raise its roll to 30, he can only win 15 more points, insufficient to win.

Calling for score reversal does nothing to change this, as it is useless for the one raising its roll (except for preventing the sacrifier to gain even more score), and unecessary for the one sacrificing its roll.

So the basic strategy is that everybody sacrify the totality of their rolls, and the one with the highest initial roll wins (as they can sacrify more).

So, except if both people rolled the same number, or below 7 (and then it's "restart with a small bonus"), it's called head-or-tails.

[Username17]

Yeah... the first Erotic Mind Control game is rather incoherent about how it works. But since all rolls are public and taken in-order there's no guessing or deception. It's pure mathhammer. You could fit the "Casino Dealer" rules on an index card and they would seriously be optimal play in all cases. It's totally incomprehensible as to, for example, whether Counters give you bonuses on the next test or only give you bonuses if you win and take the mantle of attacker. But whatever the answer, the game doesn't get any deeper, because there is no guessing what your opponent is going to do. There's a lot of die rolling, but since the options never change and the best option is always calcuable, it's really no different than shoots and ladders.

The second option is pretty much the same deal. Both players roll, both players ultra nova, and then both players swap scores twice. The end. At least it's over in one roll.

-Username17

[Koumei]

I like how someone managed to surprise and horrify Frank. I nominate this thread for "The best of TGD" for that reason alone.

I will never understand the appeal of mind control erotic roleplay, because if you completely mind control them, well, you're just playing with yourself - and not in the masturbatory sense. And the other person goes and plays Smash Brothers, which is a really crummy deal.

[RiotGearEpsilon]

I'm fairly impressed that Frank not only read the rules despite the content but immediately provided a critique of the math behind them.

[Koumei]

Come on, this is Frank - if you made a contest to see who could make the worst game system (or hell, made a game where the goal is to make a bad game system), then Frank would still read it all and provide honest critiques.

[Apalala]

I'm fairly impressed that Frank not only read the rules despite the content but immediately provided a critique of the math behind them.

His first posts were about exploits that didn't exist, and then he says the rules are incoherent and that the right move is always calculable. I get that you can--pretty easily--calculate the probability that a certain move is going succeed over the other. However, a clear optimal choice is present in lots of games. Poker calculators will calculate the exact probability of any hand you might try and make, the odds of drawing what sort of card next. People still have fun with it. Roleplaying games are even worse about it. Should my barbarian charge and power attack, or...what, bullrush?

[Apalala]

I like how someone managed to surprise and horrify Frank. I nominate this thread for "The best of TGD" for that reason alone.

I will never understand the appeal of mind control erotic roleplay, because if you completely mind control them, well, you're just playing with yourself - and not in the masturbatory sense. And the other person goes and plays Smash Brothers, which is a really crummy deal.

I guess it's all in the execution. You could make the other person act like a zombie, or you could just have them following orders. It's the standard appeal of any bdsm thing.

[Koumei]

I guess it's all in the execution. You could make the other person act like a zombie, or you could just have them following orders. It's the standard appeal of any bdsm thing.

But they are still only actually able to do what you say - that's what I'm getting at. In most other kinds of bdsm roleplays, they still have choices in how they respond, whether they'll go along with it, etc.

Er, or so I hear.

[Apalala]

I guess it's all in the execution. You could make the other person act like a zombie, or you could just have them following orders. It's the standard appeal of any bdsm thing.

But they are still only actually able to do what you say - that's what I'm getting at. In most other kinds of bdsm roleplays, they still have choices in how they respond, whether they'll go along with it, etc.

Er, or so I hear.

If you're that skeptical, I could send you logs of how the game and aftermath play out.

[Koumei]

No thanks, I'll take your word for it. I'll stick with the rules I made for naked pillow fights in Sigil Prep.

[Username17]

Poker calculators will calculate the exact probability of any hand you might try and make, the odds of drawing what sort of card next. People still have fun with it.

But that's just it. Poker is only an interesting game because your opponent makes five moves without telling you what they are. The game is not calculating whether 2 pair is a good hand or a bad hand, that's just a look-up table. The game is estimating from your opponents' behaviors in betting, past actions, and facial features whether you think they also have a good hand.

As to "exploits that didn't exist," I blame you. There's no glossary, so the fact that the words "round" and "turn" mean exactly the same thing is confusing. The fact that the word "duel" is not defined or even referenced outside of the attack and defense descriptions makes it completely unintelligible. I made an assumption on how I thought it worked. You said that was wrong, and honestly I don't give a shit any more, because if you don't define your terms and give everything cryptic sentence fragment descriptions, there's no way for a human to parse what the fuck you're talking about.

Let's focus in on that:

Counter: +0, +1 bonuses to future attacks in the duel.

Where to start? Well, "future attacks" is not defined. You're the defender, so you don't roll attacks at all. But each turn in the round is defined by an attack made against you that is trying to roll higher than your defense. A literalist interpretation therefore is that Counter is of negative value, because all further attacks made in the duel are made by your opponent - so adding +1 to them is a bad idea. But it's also possible that you meant that you get +1 to resist those attacks. And it's also possible that you meant that you get +1 to your attacks if and when you win the current round and get to be the attacker next round. Of course, "in the duel" isn't defined either, so there's no way to know how long that bonus lasts.

But regardless of how all that sorts out, when you only have three moves and all variables and all enemy moves and rolls are public knowledge before choosing is basically not a game. It would be like playing poker where everyone's hands were face up.

-Username17

[Apalala]

Okay, revised the wording, added a glossary, and added a new mechanic: Traits.

Characters can have one or two traits now, and each one gives advantages. A bit of customization, and since you don't have to reveal a trait until you use it, it lets you hide a few cards from your opponent, so to speak.

edit- Traits are new, probably not balanced, but easily tweaked.