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schpeelah
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Post by schpeelah »

Because I like to annoy you.

Monkey Grip edit
Monkey Grip [Combat]
All benefits of this feat apply when you wield and attack with a melee two-handed weapon.
Benefit: Add twice your Str modifier to damage instead of the normal 1,5.
+1: Awesome Blow: Whenever you hit and deal at least 10 points of damage, you may make one bulrush or trip attempt as a free action. Additionally, you may use weapons one size larger than yourself.
+6: Power Strike: As a Standard action you can make an attack with a damage multiplier equal to 1/5 your BAB, round up. This attack is made with a -5 penalty and the multiplier does not stack with any other multiplier (you take the bigger one).
+11: You can wield weapons of any size as long as they weigh less than light load for you.
+16: Massive Damage: Once per round, when you inflict at least 50 points of damage with a weapon larger than yourself, you can destroy the target of your attack (Fortitude save DC 10 + 1/2 your level + your Str modifier negates). If you attacked a very large object, only the part that is within 120 feet of you is destroyed.

Simplified Weapon Sizing for purposes of this feat
Using weapons larger lets you count yourself as a creature the weapon’s size for purposes of reach and attack-related size modifiers. You are considered to be Power Attacking for the amount equal to the difference in size penalty to attack (gaining the appropriate damage bonus).
For example, a Collosal Greatsword wielded by a Medium Fighter:
deals 2d6+16 damage,
gives him a reach of 20ft.
+16 bonus to Bullrush checks with Awesome Blow,
-8 penalty to attacks and decreases the maximum Power Attack penalty he can take by 8.
That better?

And two new ones (well, with one complete rewrite)

Shield Bastion [Combat]
Benefits from this feat only apply when you are using a shield, but not an Animated Shield.
+0: You your shield modifier now applies to your Touch AC and Reflex saves.
+1: For every pair of creatures flanking you, you can deny the flanking advantages to one of them.
+6: *
+11: You your shield modifier now applies to your Fortitude and Will saves.
+16: As an Immediate action you can create a completely flat Wall of Stone within Close Range or a Forcecage. You must be within a Forcecage so created, buy you can enlarge it up to triple its normal size. Either effect vanishes at the beginning of your next turn.

*My idea for this one is that while moving, you are protected from any area effects whose AoE you enter. The end result is supposed to function pretty much as if you teleported. I don’t know how to phrase that though.

Archer Rogue [Combat]
+0: Any creature that has been hit with a melee attack by one of your allies since the end of your last turn is considered flanked for purposes of your attacks.
+1: You may designate one of your weapons to deal double the normal Sneak Attack dice for one round, but you cannot Sneak Attack with any other weapon.
+6: When you hit a creature with Cowering Fire (the Edge option), it is automatically a Sneak Attack.
+11: There is no maximum range from which you can Sneak Attack.
+16: Every successful Sneak Attack is a Critical Threat. Every Critical Hit also deals Sneak Attack damage if it didn’t already.

This feat is supposed to make single weapon/archer rogues as viable as TWF rogues are. I have no idea what to put in here beyond the first two abilities.

If you think I'm writing shit, fucking let me know. How am I supposed to tell it's bad if I don't receive ant criticism?
ubernoob
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Post by ubernoob »

Your monkey grip is still shit. It has one option, one status effect, and the rest are just +numbers to the main schtick. Archer rogue is class specific, and as discussed in other places class specific feats don't have much place in the game really, but the actual mechanics of it are sort of ok. Shield bastion isn't terrible, but I'll rewrite it too just because.

Monkey Grip[Combat][Ridiculous Images]
Dude, look at how big my fingers are!
All bonuses depend on you wielding a bigger weapon than you should be able to wield.
+0: You can wield weapons one size category larger than normal. Have fun overcompensating, Cloud. This has no effect on reach or other statistics based on your actual size and just gives more damage.
+1: When wielding a big weapon you may attempt to strike two adjacent creatures at once. By accepting a -5 penalty to your attacks for this round you are considered to be attacking both creatures with each attack. Roll once, compare to AC of both, you know the routine.
+6: You can make a bullrush on any successful melee hit. You gain a bonus to this check equal to twice the amount you are power attacking for. You need not move with the creature you bullrush.
+11: You gain cover from wielding such an incredibly silly weapon.
+16: As a standard action, you can attack everyone in reach at no penalty. In addition to the normal effects, any target hit is knocked prone and must make a fortitude save (DC 10+1/2 HD+Con) or be dazed for 1 round.

Shield Bastion [Combat]
Better my shield than my torso.
Benefits from this feat only apply when you are using a shield, but not an Animated Shield.
+0: You take no penalty to attack rolls for using a tower shield.
+1: Your shield bonus applies to any ally adjacent to you in addition to yourself.
+6: As an immediate action, you may redirect any attack made at an adjacent ally toward yourself.
+11: By screaming "I'm the Juggernaut, bitch," you can use your shield to bumrush people out of the way with no effort. You never take AoOs for movement while charging because you're the juggernaut.
+16: As an swift action, you can plant your shield in the ground and shout "You shall not pass." This acts as a wall of force effect cast at your character level, except that it cannot be destroyed by someone with the Juggernaut feat and you should probably grab a spare shield to use while your shield is planted in there. Or not. Whatever.

Archer Rogue [Combat]
Maybe he has nerve damage in his other hand?
+0: Any creature that has been hit with a melee attack by one of your allies since the end of your last turn is considered flanked for purposes of your attacks.
+1: Your sneak attack works out to 60'
+6: You may use the 'sniping' option for the hides skill at no penalty. Yes, this means you can actually get sneak attack more reliably.
+11: If you hit a flatfooted creature with sneak attack, then it loses its immunity to sneak attack the next round if it has any.
+16: By accepting a -10 penalty to your hide and move silently checks, you can ignore Bullshit Detection Abilities like mindsight or blindsense or whatever the fuck.

Edit: I forgot to tell you why I didn't critique these before. The simple explanation is that I have shit to do every once in a while.
Last edited by ubernoob on Mon Jan 18, 2010 8:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.
schpeelah
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Post by schpeelah »

Big thanks. That large letter outburst wasn't directed specifically at you, more at the board at large. I don't mind being told I'm Doing It Wrong since it allows me to get better, it's just the indifference of you guys results in me not hearing a bad word about the shittiness I produce (incidentally, could you take a look at the fire feat in the OP?).

About the shield feat
- With the +6 ability I had in mind something more along the lines of crashing through Walls of Fire and Stinking Clouds unharmed, is that too much?
- I liked the +1 too, is it too situational?
- The plusses to saves are here b/c of Frank's analysis in the discussion about shields, where he said the AC defense quickly loses relevance past 10th level due to barely anyone attacking it. What's your position on that?
ubernoob
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Post by ubernoob »

schpeelah wrote:Big thanks. That large letter outburst wasn't directed specifically at you, more at the board at large. I don't mind being told I'm Doing It Wrong since it allows me to get better, it's just the indifference of you guys results in me not hearing a bad word about the shittiness I produce (incidentally, could you take a look at the fire feat in the OP?).
The fire feat in the OP is too much wording for too little reward. Let me rewrite it for you:

Mastery of Fire[Who cares]
Benefit: Pick a sphere with fire type abilities. You gain basic access to this sphere. At sixth level, up grade it. At 11th level, upgrade it again. At 16th level, you can go fuck yourself for wanting more than expert access to a sphere for a single feat.
About the shield feat
- With the +6 ability I had in mind something more along the lines of crashing through Walls of Fire and Stinking Clouds unharmed, is that too much?
- I liked the +1 too, is it too situational?
Freedom of movement, dragonhide tower shield for the 'unharmed'. Remember, in TOME shields grant more than just +AC. The +1 is because everybody likes getting +4-9 to AC for standing next to someone. I honestly don't care if it doesn't come up often because it's just an ability to reinforce an archetype.
- The plusses to saves are here b/c of Frank's analysis in the discussion about shields, where he said the AC defense quickly loses relevance past 10th level due to barely anyone attacking it. What's your position on that?
+Saves doesn't do jack shit against Maze and Irresistible Dance. If you want offense with a shield, you can just use TWF and make shield bashes (even add in combat school if you feel like it).
Utterfail
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Post by Utterfail »

Archer Rogue is a neat idea, but some of the abilities are poorly worded or are a little weaksauce or overly complicated. I'd simplify it like this. Also I'd swap out +0 and +1. Also also, +11 needs a replacement

Archer Rogue [Combat]
"Maybe he has nerve damage in his other hand?"
+0: Your sneak attacks no longer have a maximum range.
+1: Any ranged attack made against an opponent struck by an ally in melee counts as a sneak attack.
+6: Making ranged attacks no longer imposes any penalties on hide checks.
+11: [In fully Tome games, almost nothing is immune to SA. Something else should go here.]
+16: Hide checks now work against all sensory abilities that function like sight.
Last edited by Utterfail on Tue Jan 19, 2010 12:44 am, edited 2 times in total.
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ubernoob
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Post by ubernoob »

Utterfail wrote:Archer Rogue is a neat idea, but some of the abilities are poorly worded or are a little weaksauce or overly complicated. I'd simplify it like this. Also I'd swap out +0 and +1. Also also, +11 needs a replacement

Archer Rogue [Combat]
"Maybe he has nerve damage in his other hand?"
+0: Your sneak attacks no longer have a maximum range.
+1: Any ranged attack made against an opponent struck by an ally in melee counts as a sneak attack.
+6: Making ranged attacks no longer imposes any penalties on hide checks.
+11: [In fully Tome games, almost nothing is immune to SA. Something else should go here.]
+16: Hide checks now work against all sensory abilities that function like sight.
Good call. For the +11, I might add in something like granting an AoO to an ally 1/round if you hit an enemy that they threaten with a ranged attack.
Utterfail
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Post by Utterfail »

Also, monkey grip. Is it really needed? Under tome rules anything weighing less than your light load is totally able to be used as a weapon. I mean, if you want a big sword... just go buy a BIG sword.

Also, +11 could totally just be the covering fire sneak attack from the original.
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schpeelah
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Post by schpeelah »

Monkey Grip is there b/c every damage build I've seen here involves TWF, and I thought two-handed weapons should be equally good for that purpose. But then again, it might just be a sign of Tome TWF being slightly overpowered.
ubernoob wrote:Mastery of Fire[Who cares]
If that's the case, I say ditch the thing altogether and go for a more general Attune Sphere houserule. I've been wondering - does this feat being taken by somebody with 6-level casting provide enough benefit or not? If not, is giving them the spells they can't yet cast as SLA 1/day OK? I'd like to remind this feat does not actually require having any casting ability, so noncasters could just take that to gain a Basic Sphere (maybe upgraded to Advanced at some later point).
ubernoob
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Post by ubernoob »

schpeelah wrote:Monkey Grip is there b/c every damage build I've seen here involves TWF, and I thought two-handed weapons should be equally good for that purpose. But then again, it might just be a sign of Tome TWF being slightly overpowered.
Yes, TWF is pretty powerhouse. Not as powerhouse as combat school, but still more generally always useful than something else useful like juggernaut. But most of that is just "Double your attacks."
ubernoob wrote:Mastery of Fire[Who cares]
If that's the case, I say ditch the thing altogether and go for a more general Attune Sphere houserule. I've been wondering - does this feat being taken by somebody with 6-level casting provide enough benefit or not? If not, is giving them the spells they can't yet cast as SLA 1/day OK? I'd like to remind this feat does not actually require having any casting ability, so noncasters could just take that to gain a Basic Sphere (maybe upgraded to Advanced at some later point).
I don't see why granting basic access to a sphere for a feat in a tome game would be out of line even if the character was NOT a caster. Upgrading to advanced at some point is pretty much required though. Expert, could probably be argued either way.
schpeelah
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Post by schpeelah »

For a noncaster, I'd give a minimum level of 3, since a Basic Sphere is half of a 1st level Conduit. Advanced somewhere between 6 and 11. Expert really depends on a Sphere, since some of them grant potent stuff like Weil of the Banshee or Chained Flesh to Ice.
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Post by CatharzGodfoot »

ubernoob wrote:I don't see why granting basic access to a sphere for a feat in a tome game would be out of line even if the character was NOT a caster. Upgrading to advanced at some point is pretty much required though. Expert, could probably be argued either way.
Ha! Basic access to a single sphere is at least as good as any other feat.
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ubernoob
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Post by ubernoob »

CatharzGodfoot wrote:
ubernoob wrote:I don't see why granting basic access to a sphere for a feat in a tome game would be out of line even if the character was NOT a caster. Upgrading to advanced at some point is pretty much required though. Expert, could probably be argued either way.
Ha! Basic access to a single sphere is at least as good as any other feat.
You get 1-2 level appropriate in combat effects that don't stack well with other things. Totally a thing worth writing down on your feat, but not an instant win button by any means.
schpeelah
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Post by schpeelah »

Hello, did you miss this thread? Now it's back!

But seriously, I had the idea kicking around my head for some time now and decided to finally write it down. I do realise I've written too much into it, so I'd like your opinion on what to cut out. Here it goes:

Sundertard [Combat]
My favourite method of killing things and taking their stuff? Well, first I break their stuff...
+0: Sunder: You can perform the Sunder manoeuvre, as per PHB rules (because there is no such thing under Tome rules).
Restore Magic: You can repair Basic and Minor magic items, restoring their power. In case the item in question was broken into multiple pieces, you need to have more than 50% of the original item. Repairing an item takes you one day instead of one week and costs no resources other than parts of the original item. DC as in the Craft rules plus CL of the item.
+1: Improved Sunder: Each time you strike an opponent with a weapon attack, you can make a free Sunder attempt against one of their items that does not provoke AoOs. You have a +4 bonus on the roll and can sunder armour.
+6: Magic Sunder: When you make a Sunder attempt against an item, you may target that item with Dispel Magic or Shatter as a Swift Action. Caster level equal to character level.
Counter-Sunder: Attacked with an object, you may make a Sunder attempt against that object as an Immediate action.
Fast Repair: As a free action once pre round you can cast Make Whole as a spell-like ability at will. You can use Restore Magic with this ability.
You can now restore Medium magic items.
+11: Chain Magic Sunder: As Magic Sunder, but with the Chain metamagic. The maximum number of secondary targets is equal to half your BAB.
Serial Counter Sunder: Objects hurled into or through your threatened space provoke an Attack of Opportunity from you.
You can now restore Major magic items and Minor Artfacts.
+16: ???
Sunder the Game: As Magic Sunder, but you can cast Game Disjunction (area limited to target’s space) or Disintegrate instead. [I don't have a decent idea what to put here and after the last Fighter thread, I don't really care]
You can now restore Major Artifacts.
ubernoob
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Post by ubernoob »

Kind of stupid. In tome rules, sundered items don't cost you power (so the make whole shit doesn't matter) and humanoid NPCs getting their RNG shifted by 1/3 level on every hit is a bit too retarded for words.

The whole point of BoGs is to make it so that wealth != power, so anything built around sundering is... stupid. Sundering is *already* a pretty damn potent debuff.
IGTN
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Post by IGTN »

Expert Access to a Sphere for the price of a feat is overpowered, since being a 2nd level Conduit gives you a free feat for every Sphere you have Expert access to. If your Expert Access feat is a [Fiend] feat, a 2nd level Conduit gains all spheres it grants access to for free. If it's not, then they just get one free sphere each time they take a [Fiend] feat with a feat that they can spend on something else. Also, if it is a [Fiend] feat, then Fiendish Brutes become better sphere-users than Conduits.

I agree, though, that basic access sucks for anyone who isn't a Conduit (three total uses per day of things you care about instead of two).

Still, it seems to me like it was probably a good idea to keep Feats and Spheres mostly separate.
"No, you can't burn the inn down. It's made of solid fire."
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