Tome Fighter - Problem Solver

[Orion]

Jesus fuck guys. Two Handed Fighting is the best style because you use it when you are a fucking spellcaster. At high levels it does more damage than any other style because it is the only one compatible with casting this

Unless by some miracle you have Simple Weapon proficiency and enough gold to purchase a quarterstaff...

[Surgo]

How do not write crappy feats part 2: know the damn rules of the system you're writing the feat for.

[Red_Rob]

At high levels it does more damage than any other style because it is the only one compatible with casting this, and it is the best juggling technique because it's compatible with bladeweave, and it hits more than any other fighting school because it's the only fighting style you can cast wraithstrike out of.

These are your arguments for why gish never use TWF? Giant Size is a buff. It will be cast before combat and persisted or at worst on the first round. Since drawing a weapon is part of a move action you can cast it first round and still draw your second weapon. You now benefit from Giant Size more than Mr. Greatsword. Bladeweave has no somatic component so you can cast it fine with two weapons drawn. The only spell a TWFer can't use from that list is Wraithstrike, which means you give up auto hits on some actions for extra attacks during every action. Since TWF means you benefit more from all the other buffs you cast I still can't see why gish somehow can only use THF. If you invest in Combat Looting you can even sheathe one of your swords as a free action to cast spells if you need to, then draw it again straight after as part of a move action.

There is seriously no law that says "Gish must use Greatswords" or "Gish cannot use two weapons" and trying to claim that THF is "the gish style" and thats why a THF feat is broken doesn't hold water. Using your logic the Cleric Archer is a powerful build, so ranged combat feats should be banned. And yet there are plenty of (Combat) feats that boost ranged attacks.

And even if it is something to worry about, Combat feats scale off BaB. As a gish almost always has to give up some BaB to get spells and typically makes this up with buffs they will get less benefit from this feat than Warriors, so its self correcting anyway.

Red Rob, the feat is meant to attack people who get close to you, and keep them from attacking you. It's a defensive feat, not an offensive one.

Yes, I got what you were going for, but the implementation seemed like it would end up just giving you more attacks each round. Thats what TWF does, this just does it in a slightly different way. Also:

you can only take one AoO provoked by the moving of a single target per round.

so you wouldn't get more than one extra attack anyway. I liked the +11 ability, although doing it as a reaction seems a bit too quick for swinging a 2-hander. They are already getting less attacks than TWFers, so I was going to run with that theme and have THF hitting less but each individual hit doing more by way of save-or-suck.

you've probably never seen someone use the "templar tuck" in real life.
...
It's pretty simple, you basically tuck your weapon under your sheild arm, or 'other' weapon arm; and bang, free hand to start casting spells.
...
Now, from a balance point of view, using the Templar Tuck should be highly limited in D&D; since spells in D&D are actually powerful. Probably limited to the point of "you have to perform the sheathe/unsheathe action".

Erm, can't you already use the "sheathe/unsheathe action"? This seems to do exactly the same thing and be the same action so... whats the point?

So, I was thinking something like this for the THF feat:

Two Handed Style (Combat)
"I never had such an easy victory!"
+0: At the end of your turn, each opponent you dealt damage with a Two Handed Melee weapon equal to or greater than their Con score must make a Fortitude save (DC10 + ½BaB + Str bonus) or count as Flat Footed until the end of their next action.
+1: Your strength modifier is increased by 1 per 3 points of BaB you have whilst wielding a melee weapon with 2 hands.
+6: You may choose to instead make a free trip attempt against enemies that you would force to make a Fortitude save against being flat footed.
+11: You may choose to have enemies that fail their Fortitude save become Staggered until the end of their next action instead of Flat Footed.
+16: You may choose to have enemies that fail their Fortitude save become Stunned until the end of their next action instead of Flat Footed.

This gives you a variety of options as you increase in level. I went for ½ BaB instead of ½level to make the feat less attractive to the gish Frank is so worried will break the game. Its probably not as good as Combat School, but I think save vs. daze at level 6 is too much of a stunlock.

[Kaelik]

1) Gishes have Divine Power.

2) Feats that add to Str are bad. Scaling numbers like that is not the solution.

[Judging__Eagle]

You only provoke once per movement per enemy, no matter how far you go, or how many threatened squares you leave within that enemy's reach. It's at the bottom of the page that you just linked to...

Moving out of more than one square threatened by the same opponent in the same round doesn’t count as more than one opportunity for that opponent.

Now... that is the biggest pile of shit that I have ever read.

If some cockknob monster walks past me, on its way to attack my backpack/ranger/spell battery, I'm going to tool him down. Walking past someone leaves you completely open for attack, and the amount of time it takes to swing is trivial compared to the amount of time it takes for the target to move their roly-poly ass out of the reach of the attacker's weapon swings.

Same if they come at me straight on, and I've got more reach than they do, I'm going to ankle and calf-shot them, and I'm going to do it a bunch of times if they're slow, not fast, easy to hit, have a tiny weapon, etc..

Each AoO occurs when it is triggered. The PHB can go contradict itself, and reality, in its own time.

It's bad enough that 3.5 doesn't have facing, but that, and anyone who ever bought into it, is seriously ridiculous.

It's basically saying that a person can move 15' in a line, right beside me, and I can't take more than a single swing at them?

If they really cared about not getting hit, they'd step back and circle, not keep walking alongside an enemy. Anything else gets into ludicrous territory.

---

For the record, this 'bottom of the page thing isn't clearly outlined.

It's a bullshit stealth nerf to Combat Reflexes. It's a garbage train of thought, and I'm going to excise that part out in my own games officially, I've already done so long ago unofficially and without realizing this stupid rule existed.

[Akula]

If we're tossing out crappy two handed fighting feats, this is mine. It is probably shit.

Big Sword Style [Combat]
Special: this feat only works if you are wielding one weapon in two or more hands.
+0: You add x2 Str mod to damage with two handed weapons instead of x1.5.
+1: You have the edge on anyone wielding a smaller weapon than you. (Going by the weapon size rule in tome)
+6: You may elect to bullrush any opponent you hit in melee with a two handed weapon as a free action. If you power attacked on the attack you may add the penalty you took to hit as a bonus on your opposed check. You do not have to move with your target, but you may. If you bullrush an opponent 10' or more, they fall prone automatically.
+11: Opponents hit by more than one attack from you in a single round must make a fort save or be staggered for one round at the end of their turn. DC=10+1/2 level+Str.
+16: Any sword you use two handed gains the Vorpal major quality in addition to whatever other qualities it has.

Feedback would be nice.

[God_of_Awesome]

Alright, my mistake was reading the regular PHB special attack rules.

Stampeding Bullrush
You charge, waving your giant phallacy like a maniac.

Prereq: Wielding a two-handed weapon.

Benefit: When you bull rush an opponent, you may also attack them with your weapon.
+1: If you suceed in damaging and in the bull rush, they are knocked prone.
+6: Any creature that would normally get an AoO against you when you bull rush, you instead get the AoO against them. If you suceed in damaging them, they are also knocked prone.
+11: If you suceed in the bull rush, your opponent is blown away, starting from the spot in which you finally push them back as in a normal bull rush. They are prone at the end of it.
+16: If you suceed in damaging your opponent during a bull rush, you also disarm them. They drop whatever they are holding where you finally push them back as in a normal bull rush and are blown away as normal.

I think this is pretty good but then... I thought the same thing about a lot of things.

[Kaelik]

Akula, generally speaking it's good. Your +1 ability is great, your +0 ability is good. Adding Vorpal on top of Time Distortion or whatever might pose some problems, but fuck it, it's level 16 and it's not like giving people +16 weapons or full attacks as standard actions isn't also bitch crazy.

[God_of_Awesome]

So is blown away and auto-disarm too tame at 16? Should I move those up and add crazier shit?

[Red_Rob]

1) Gishes have Divine Power.

So they do. Might as well make all the checks level dependent then. Several people already showed that Gish can use TWF if they want so honestly I'm not that worried about it.

2) Feats that add to Str are bad. Scaling numbers like that is not the solution.

Bad how? Easily abused? Not worth taking? I was looking for something that gave a boost to the DC of your effects rather than just more damage.

It's a bullshit stealth nerf to Combat Reflexes

Well its in the main rulebook, so I'd argue its how attacks of opportunity were always intended to function. Besides that, its more to stop guys with a long reach from being unnapproachable. If you are going to take 2+ attacks of opportunity before you can get to attack reach weapons get a massive boost, particularly with Tome rules handing out extra AoO.

If we're tossing out crappy two handed fighting feats, this is mine. It is probably shit.

Big Sword Style [Combat]
Special: this feat only works if you are wielding one weapon in two or more hands.
+0: You add x2 Str mod to damage with two handed weapons instead of x1.5.
+1: You have the edge on anyone wielding a smaller weapon than you. (Going by the weapon size rule in tome)
+6: You may elect to bullrush any opponent you hit in melee with a two handed weapon as a free action. If you power attacked on the attack you may add the penalty you took to hit as a bonus on your opposed check. You do not have to move with your target, but you may. If you bullrush an opponent 10' or more, they fall prone automatically.
+11: Opponents hit by more than one attack from you in a single round must make a fort save or be staggered for one round at the end of their turn. DC=10+1/2 level+Str.
+16: Any sword you use two handed gains the Vorpal major quality in addition to whatever other qualities it has.

After reading staggered again, I don't think its as good as knocking them prone. They have to stand up from Prone, provoking an AoO, and then they can still only take a move or standard action. Seeing as you only need to beat your opponent by 4 on a bullrush to knock them over the +6 sounds like it could be better than the +11. Although, once they both come on line at +11 you can stunlock your enemies by knocking them over and staggering them, restricting them to 1 move action, which they have to use to stand up, so I suppose its the combo that wins at +11. This feat looks good, I like the way it uses the existing maneuver rules. Much more elegant than mine. I considered adding x2 str mod to damage as the +1 ability but I wasn't sure it would do enough. I suppose it means that a 2HFer gets the same benefit from Str enhancers as a TWFer.

Reading Bullrush in the Tome I was confused on the wording. It reads:

Then you make an opposed size-modified strength check against a DC of 10 + the target’s Strength
modifier + the target’s size modifier

I thought opposed checks didnt have a DC? Which is it, opposed or with a DC? I guess DC10+mods is just like an averaged opposed roll.

[Akula]

Oops, my bad. That should be 'on the check' instead of 'opposed check.' I'm thinking that I should up the distance for the auto-prone. Like to 20' or something.

I have the same view as Kaelik on this feat mostly. +0 and +1 are good. And +16 doesn't matter, but is an ability that you would care about if you were inclined to play those levels. I'm less sure about +6, and +11. They may be too good or kinda crappy. Anyway, I made a few edits. If anyone else has suggestions for the +6 or +11 abilities I'd be happy to hear them.

One thing I considered though; I have the initial restriction because you could conceivably use this plus TWF, Combat School, Extra Arms, Whirlwind, and some size boosting STR pumping crap to get really hardcore area save or sucks at mid to high levels. But I now realize that this takes like 6 feats and probably is only viable for a Fighter. I'm torn on dropping the restriction.

Big Sword Style [Combat]
Special: this feat only works if you are wielding one weapon in two or more hands.
+0: You add x2 Str mod to damage with two handed weapons instead of x1.5.
+1: You have the edge on anyone wielding a smaller weapon than you. (Going by the weapon size rule in tome)
+6: You may elect to bullrush any opponent you hit in melee with a two handed weapon as a free action. If you power attacked on the attack you may add the penalty you took to hit as a bonus on your check. You do not have to move with your target, but you may. If you bullrush an opponent 20' or more, they fall prone automatically.
+11: Opponents hit by more than one attack from you in a single round must make a fort save or be staggered for one round at the end of their turn. DC=10+1/2 level+Str.
+16: Any weapon you use two handed gains the Vorpal major quality in addition to whatever other qualities it has.

Overall, I think the internal synergy is good and it plays well with others.

GoA: I think you might want to think about a save vs violent thrust TK at +11 or +16. Disarming for free is something that a combat maneuver specialist should do at like levels 1-10. Not 16-20.

[God_of_Awesome]

Stampeding Bullrush
You charge, waving your giant phallacy like a maniac.

Prereq: Wielding a two-handed weapon.

Benefit: When you bull rush an opponent, you may also attack them with your weapon. If you suceed in damaging and in the bull rush, they are knocked prone.
+1: Any creature that would normally get an AoO against you when you bull rush, you instead get the AoO against them. If you suceed in damaging them, they are also knocked prone.
+6: If you suceed in the bull rush, your opponent is blown away, starting from the spot in which you finally push them back as in a normal bull rush. They are prone at the end of it.
+11: If you suceed in damaging your opponent during a bull rush, you also disarm them. They drop whatever they are holding where you finally push them back as in a normal bull rush and are blown away as normal. Anything you disarm also takes sundering damage as well as to any armor they are wearing.
+16: When you succeed in a bull rush, all designated creatures within 10 feet of your opponent and the line they cross, within a weight range (25 pounds x BAB) are blown away. When your opponent is blown away, all designated creatures they pass within 5 feet of their trajectory are blown away along with them. Anything you disarm takes critical sundering damage as well as to any armor they are wearing. All designate creatures, including your opponent, make a Fort save vs 10+1/2 level+BAB, or become nauseated and sickened from getting knocked on their ass so hard.

[Username17]

Since this completely retarded thread seems to just... keep... lumbering... on. With ever more retarded ideas, no less. There seems only one thing to do:



Spamming the thread with dismissive image macros. If it makes the thread go away, it's a win.

People bitching that their Dwarf Barbarian with a greataxe needs to outdamage the Rogue is seriously my number one pet peeve about D&D fans.

-Username17

[God_of_Awesome]

Well, my feat has very little to do with damage and more with knocking people on their ass and generally messing up their shit.

Edit: The Sonic damage thing was retarded though so I switched it out with some status effects.

[Red_Rob]

People bitching that their Dwarf Barbarian with a greataxe needs to outdamage the Rogue is seriously my number one pet peeve about D&D fans.

-Username17

We can tell Frank. You hate it so much that you treat any attempt to make 2 handed fighting a viable choice as "people bitching", even when there is no overlap with the rogue's fighting style. No-one has even mentioned raw damage increases for a long time. Try to keep up.

Besides, a Barbarian with a 2 handed weapon is pretty fucking iconic, it just sucks ass compared to two weapon fighting with the current rules. Noone is trying to make 2HF into the new "best style". We just don't want it to be a trap option.

Now I'll make you a deal. If you don't like two handed weapons, I won't come round to your house and force you to use any Feats we come up with. Then you can have everyone using two weapons and feel fan-fucking-tastic. Just please don't make wild accusations that anyone who wants a Dwarf Barbarian with a Great Axe to be a useful addition to the party is a retard.

Let me ask you a question. If you are making a high level warrior using the current rules, would you ever choose to make him a specialist in a Two Handed Weapon without reach over Two-Weapon fighting?

+1: Any creature that would normally get an AoO against you when you bull rush, you instead get the AoO against them. If you suceed in damaging them, they are also knocked prone.
+6: If you suceed in the bull rush, your opponent is blown away, starting from the spot in which you finally push them back as in a normal bull rush. They are prone at the end of it.

The +1 has some weird interaction with Juggernaut. That feat helps bull rushes but prevents the AoO against you. I suppose it depends on your definition of "normally". There seem to be too many prone effects here, the +0 makes people prone and the +1 and the +6 both make people prone. Blown Away isn't much better than prone so its not really much of an upgrade. Disarm and sunder only works on opponents with weapons, so it is useless against enemies using natural attacks.

I like the fact the feat rewards you for bullrushing into a group of enemies, however its a bit of a 1 trick pony at the moment. The +16 is a little too complicated too. Look at the Feats in RoW - they have cool, powerful and simple effects. Most of the +16's have effects that can open up powerful new options for your character, yet they are explained in at most two lines.

[RobbyPants]

I was reading it. Where can I find it?

It's Under Advanced Combat, which makes it a little tricky to find. I highlighted the actual rule.

Advanced Combat

Advanced combat is a somewhat disingenuous name, as it implies that these rules are more complex than the "basic" rules found in the PHB. In truth, some of them are and some are not. Mostly, we look at these rules as a revision of the existing rules to make them more useful to players and DMs. In part that means taking incomprehensible portions of the combat system (grapple, for example), and cutting them down into discreet actions people can actually use without a half-hour argument. Partly this means taking basic combat actions and making sure that they have a valid purpose at all levels of play.

Base Attack Bonus and Combat Maneuvers

If you looked at the classes in the PHB, you'd think that BAB actually meant something. Classes with good BABs are severely restricted in other areas, and they only get 1 or 2 more BAB every four levels as compared to full spellcasters. Clearly, having even a slight bulge in BAB is supposed to be a major advantage. But in the basic rules, it really isn't. The bonus that a Fighter gets to his BAB over a Wizard is actually smaller than the variance of having rolled well and having rolled poorly on one's attributes. There is no guaranty that an Elven Fighter is better with a bow than an Elven Wizard is at 1st or even 4th level. Even when the BAB starts to pull ahead, it does so very slowly. A net +1 to-hit is something that you seriously might never even notice if you rolled your dice in secret. A +1 to-hit means that out of 20 attacks, one attack that would have missed would hit instead. Which, compared to the difference in numbers of attacks that land between someone who rolls well and someone who rolls poorly during an adventure is vanishingly small.

So what we're doing is actually making BAB mean something. It's supposed to represent the amount of combat skill you have, so let's work with that. From now on, if you have more BAB than the target of your attacks, you are considered to "Have the Edge" on that attack. Combat Maneuvers will perform better when used by someone with the Edge. So while anyone can attempt to Disarm an opponent (provoking an attack of opportunity and dropping the weapon on the ground on a successful opposed attack roll), a character with the Edge can disarm better (provoking no attack of opportunity and sending the weapon flying in a direction of his choice). In this manner, a character who takes full BAB classes always has a fundamental advantage in combat over characters who do other things.

[God_of_Awesome]

+1: Any creature that would normally get an AoO against you when you bull rush, you instead get the AoO against them. If you suceed in damaging them, they are also knocked prone.
+6: If you suceed in the bull rush, your opponent is blown away, starting from the spot in which you finally push them back as in a normal bull rush. They are prone at the end of it.

The +1 has some weird interaction with Juggernaut. That feat helps bull rushes but prevents the AoO against you. I suppose it depends on your definition of "normally". There seem to be too many prone effects here, the +0 makes people prone and the +1 and the +6 both make people prone. Blown Away isn't much better than prone so its not really much of an upgrade. Disarm and sunder only works on opponents with weapons, so it is useless against enemies using natural attacks.

I like the fact the feat rewards you for bullrushing into a group of enemies, however its a bit of a 1 trick pony at the moment. The +16 is a little too complicated too. Look at the Feats in RoW - they have cool, powerful and simple effects. Most of the +16's have effects that can open up powerful new options for your character, yet they are explained in at most two lines.

Well, I don't wanna get RID of blown away. I simply love the idea of knocking people around like fucking bowling pins. I should add that you end being blown away also prone, and maybe some additional effects.

[CatharzGodfoot]

It's a bullshit stealth nerf to Combat Reflexes. It's a garbage train of thought, and I'm going to excise that part out in my own games officially, I've already done so long ago unofficially and without realizing this stupid rule existed.

It's not a "bullshit stealth nerf", because it's always been that way. It is a nerf to titans fighting knights, which is something I'm fine with. Having an absurd reach and making ton of AoOs on moving targets is pretty much a niche tactic that only you care about, because everyone else has been following the rules and using some of their AoOs on other things like enemies who were tripped while moving into (technically out of) reach.

[Red_Rob]

So, unsurprisingly this isn't the first time the idea of balancing weapon choices has come up on the boards. Reading the threads Why do shields suck so much? , New Combat Feats and Races of War gave an interesting viewpoint on some considered views regarding the various combat styles. I think Caedrus said it best in the shields thread:

With this in mind, I like to think of it not in terms of "fixing shields" so much as "Creating a balanced weapon styles system."

Weapon styles being things like "reach, 1HW and board, two weapon fighting, two handed weapon fighting, fisticuffs, throwing weapons, crossbows, bows, light weapons, one-handed weapons, double weapons, improvised weapons."

And then that delineates even further into the smaller varieties within each of those choices.

Ideally, you want to have these various weapon styles be balanced, but you also want them to have unique enough styles from each other in order to differentiate characters, or else they might as well just be flavor text instead of rules.

With this in mind, looking at the current system its clear that TWF provides the most opportunity for a vertical increase in power via extra attacks. Ranged weapons have a number of feats that make them attractive as an option, plus they already occupy a niche due to the inherent advantage you don't have to put yourself in danger to use them. Reach Weapons also have this benefit, but being melee weapons they can more easily stack shit to capitalise on it. I've seen people claim Sword and Board is a viable fighting style when done right, but everyone (apart from Frank) seems to agree that THF is currently the red-headed step child of D&D 3.Tome. It offers nothing beyond a very few minor benefits (higher damage die, can free a hand if necessary) that synergise with a few effects, but nothing like the raw power you can get from other styles.

Big Sword Style [Combat]
Special: this feat only works if you are wielding one weapon in two or more hands.
+0: You add x2 Str mod to damage with two handed weapons instead of x1.5.
+1: You have the edge on anyone wielding a smaller weapon than you. (Going by the weapon size rule in tome)
+6: You may elect to bullrush any opponent you hit in melee with a two handed weapon as a free action. If you power attacked on the attack you may add the penalty you took to hit as a bonus on your check. You do not have to move with your target, but you may. If you bullrush an opponent 20' or more, they fall prone automatically.
+11: Opponents hit by more than one attack from you in a single round must make a fort save or be staggered for one round at the end of their turn. DC=10+1/2 level+Str.
+16: Any weapon you use two handed gains the Vorpal major quality in addition to whatever other qualities it has.

I like this Feat. The +6 seems a little wordy, would changing it to "you may make a free bullrush or trip attempt" and remove the prone effect provide a similar effect? Also, is this assuming the DMG "kill no save on a crit" Vorpal or the Tome "Save or die each hit" Vorpal?

Also, can anyone provide some examples of how a Sword and Board build would work? Is it just based on getting AC so high that your enemies can't hit you? Beyond the Knight Class and its Designate ability I can't see how trading mad offensive power like doubled attacks for the defensive power provided by a shield is worthwhile unless you get off the RNG.

[Akula]

I've seen people claim Sword and Board is a viable fighting style when done right,.

Shields are nice because they provide scaling defensive benefits. It is like getting a free feat when you use a shield, compared to spending one on TWF. They are still a niche style though.

I like this Feat. The +6 seems a little wordy, would changing it to "you may make a free bullrush or trip attempt" and remove the prone effect provide a similar effect? Also, is this assuming the DMG "kill no save on a crit" Vorpal or the Tome "Save or die each hit" Vorpal?

Tome Vorpal. I think that changing the +6 ability would make some sense.
Big Sword Style [Combat]
Special: this feat only works if you are wielding one weapon in two or more hands.
+0: You add x2 Str mod to damage with two handed weapons instead of x1.5.
+1: You have the edge on anyone wielding a smaller weapon than you. (Going by the weapon size rule in tome)
+6: You may elect to bullrush or trip any opponent you hit in melee with a two handed weapon as a free action. If you used power attack on the attack you may add the penalty you took to hit as a bonus on your check. When using this feat to bullrush, you do not have to move with your target.
+11: Opponents hit by more than one attack from you in a single round must make a fort save or be staggered for one round at the end of their turn. DC=10+1/2 level+Str.
+16: Any weapon you use two handed gains the Vorpal major quality in addition to whatever other qualities it has.

[God_of_Awesome]

Okay, great advice Kael gave me: I can't make a mechanic without well-define fluff. So the fluff for Stampeding Bullrush requires that it be broken in twain.

Buster: With a two-handed sword, you break things, including people.

Mad Charge: You bullrush into a crowd with a two-handed weapon and you start hurting lots of people.

Buster [Combat]
Who wouldn't that two-feet of solid steel would be so good with breaking things?
Special: This feat only applies to the first attack of a full attack.
Benefit: Whenever you hit with a weapon wielded two-handed the stricken must make a Reflex save vs 10 + 1/2 level + Str mod or be knocked prone.
+1: Any creature you succesfully knock prone with this feat is also disarmed*. If they weren't holding any weapons, then they are incapable of performing unarmed strikes, using natural weapons or casting spells for 1 round
+6: Whenever you hit with a weapon wielded two-handed you deal sundering damage to any armor (Including natural) the stricken is wearing. If you succesfully knocked them prone, you also deal sundering damage to all weapons disarmed. If they aren't wearing any armor, then they get an AC, Will, Fort and Ref penalty equal to your Str mod for 1d4 rounds. If they aren't holding any items, then they are incapable of performing unarmed strikes, using natural weapons or casting spells for 1d4 rounds.
+11: If the stricken would be knocked prone, they are instead blown away, nauseated for 1d4 rounds rounds and prone. They also count as helpless for as long as they are both prone and nauseated.
+16: If the stricken were to be blown away, they are instead hurled, as if under the violent thrust effect of the Telekinesis spell. This effects creatures of a weight range of 25 x BAB pounds, hurling them at any creature with a range of 10 x BAB feet dealing 1d6 per 25 pounds of hurled creature of damage and 1 point per 25 pounds of hurled creature of sundering damage to armor to both creatures. The creature hurled at must make a Reflex save vs 10 + 1/2 level + Str mod or be knocked prone, disarmed and have the same sundering damage dealt to held items. The hurled still ends up nauseated and prone as above.

*Any bonus or penalty to disarm also effects this feat. For example, if they have a +4 bonus against being disarmed, they must fail their Reflex save by 4 to be disarmed even if they fall prone. If they have a -4 penalty to being disarmed, they must suceed their Reflex save by 4 or be disarmed, even if they don't fall prone.

Fuck, this is wordy.

[schpeelah]

Whenever you hit with a two-handed weapon, being held by two-hands

Why do you need to word it this way? Just say "a weapon wielded two-handed".

The +1 is unreasonably complex for no good reason. Make that condition last 1 round and work 1/round/opponent, otherwise it's too powerful (this applies to all abilities this feat grants; the +1 is not overpowered until you get more attacks from wherever). Also, everyone not using weapons are always holding sticks to protect themselves from this ability.

+11 cures nausea, going by the wording.

[Red_Rob]

+11: Opponents hit by more than one attack from you in a single round must make a fort save or be staggered for one round at the end of their turn. DC=10+1/2 level+Str.

Should this be your turn? I think I'll be using this Feat in my games. It provides THF with a nice set of effects that isn't just pumping out damage. I like the way all the abilities synergise with each other yet are useful in their own right.

Shields are nice because they provide scaling defensive benefits. It is like getting a free feat when you use a shield, compared to spending one on TWF. They are still a niche style though.

The scaling benefits for shields are pretty minor. Most common shields only get a +2 bonus to disarm and bullrush up till level 11. Even after that they don't seem that great. Energy resistance against Force damage? Extra DC against grapples? They all seem very situational compared to what Feats provide. I mean, the AC is enough to make it kind of worthwile at low levels but once you get to level 6 you get two attacks. This means all the offensive bonuses you can get from using Two Weapons or a Two Hander get doubled, while at the same time AC is becoming less and less useful.

I'm never keen when an option is generally underpowered, but with one specific build or combo it becomes very powerful. This means you can't really power it up without that build dominating, so it stays as a niche option used by only a few characters.

[God_of_Awesome]

Why do you need to word it this way? Just say "a weapon wielded two-handed".

The +1 is unreasonably complex for no good reason. Make that condition last 1 round and work 1/round/opponent, otherwise it's too powerful (this applies to all abilities this feat grants; the +1 is not overpowered until you get more attacks from wherever). Also, everyone not using weapons are always holding sticks to protect themselves from this ability.

+11 cures nausea, going by the wording.

Alright, fixed.

So, do you think the whole feat is too powerful?

[schpeelah]

The effects it grants are too powerful when used with multiple attacks. I mean, +1 basically stops them from attacking in most forms, +6 sunders all their weapons and armour or gives them a decent defensive penalty, +11 makes them nauseated and helpless as long as they are prone - and by that time you may well have invested into tripping and/or throw tanglefoot bags. That's too much for something you have to save against multiple times per round.

And BTW, holding whatever still protects Wizards and Monks from the +1.