Josh Rebuts the State of the Union

[Josh_Kablack]

The expanded hate of renters; outright gimmes for people in the business of flipping businesses instead of providing goods and services; contradiction between importance of research to economic health with a freeze on federal spending for research; and the welcome-to-the-1970s-moment of "Still, in this economy, a high school diploma no longer guarantees a good job"; all have to take a backseat to this one:

There's a reason why many doctors, nurses and health care experts who know our system best consider this approach a vast improvement over the status quo. But if anyone from either party has a better approach that will bring down premiums, bring down the deficit, cover the uninsured, strengthen Medicare for seniors and stop insurance company abuses, let me know.

I offer $100 in campaign contributions to the first Senator or Representative to say "Single Payer".

[Lago PARANOIA]

Josh, as awful as the health care reform bill is, it's still a vast improvement over the status quo.

Just putting people on a mandate for getting insurance (with credits for people who can't afford it, of course) is an improvement. Granted, it's going to suck monkey fuck at first but assuming that it doesn't go away in the first few critical years I'd expect a public option plan to go away.

Then again, I don't really trust the intelligence of the American people. I don't think anyone is going to want recission or dropping for pre-existing conditions or any of that shit to come back, but these things are just not going to work if you don't have a mandate. So America will have to either choose to support a better insurance distribution system or go back to the worse old days. But then again, that's where the lack of trust comes into play.

[Surgo]

Isn't the freeze only on spending *increases*?

[The Lunatic Fringe]

Yes

[Psychic Robot]

Baby steps. Attempting to implement a single payer system would be unwise at this juncture.

[Crissa]

And the freeze only counts things they don't find important. So in all the details, it's hardly a freeze at all.

But, hey, it penalizes people for working in civil service instead of banking! I mean, if you do something good and deserve overtime or a bonus, if you're a civil servant, you don't get one. Unless, of course, you work for a bailed-out bank.

Grr.

-Crissa

[mean_liar]

The freeze is just a distraction. Actually doing a 2nd round of stimulus is a mea culpa that they should have just made the 1st round larger, but hopefully it does address the fundamental problem with the 1st round: it failed to directly and energetically create a future basis for industry in America. Just throwing money here and there is nice, but basic grant money and infrastructure development alone should have been in the range of $800B+.

[Kaelik]

It's the republicans fault. They've spent so long telling us that money being spent and the speed it is spent at are the only important things to the economy that people have forgotten that what you spend it on actually does matter.

[Josh_Kablack]

My offer stands.

As to the speech as a whole, I seriously disagree with many of our current president's judgement calls, but when the rebuttal is outright fascist anti-constitutional rhetoric like this:

from http://www.huffingtonpost.com/richard-g ... 39713.html
It's hard to take a President seriously when he says we will take the fight to al Qaeda but then brings al Qaeda to the U.S. to be tried in an American court. It's hard to understand a President who sends the lawyers to a terrorist to tell him that he has the right to remain silent but then brags that he is tough on terrorists.

it's hard to see Obama as anything but the lesser of two evils.

[K]

My offer stands.

As to the speech as a whole, I seriously disagree with many of our current president's judgement calls, but when the rebuttal is outright fascist anti-constitutional rhetoric like this:

from http://www.huffingtonpost.com/richard-g ... 39713.html
It's hard to take a President seriously when he says we will take the fight to al Qaeda but then brings al Qaeda to the U.S. to be tried in an American court. It's hard to understand a President who sends the lawyers to a terrorist to tell him that he has the right to remain silent but then brags that he is tough on terrorists.

it's hard to see Obama as anything but the lesser of two evils.

As the only non-fascist leader in a position of real political power, Obama gets my support. Sure, I think this whole "I can be a centrist by throwing bones to the Republicans" strategy will fail because they actually are attempting to obstruct 100% of everything being done during his four years, but the alternative is to give the government to the Teabaggers and the other irrationalists.

I mean, the real evil in government is the problem where we've gotten these 3rd rate leaders who no one wants to call on their BS. Obama looks so much better than everyone because everyone else looks incompetent. Neither the Dems or the Republicans can field a strong candidate for a leader position, which is why both parties have gone lockstep in their rhetoric...... they don't actually have anyone who can talk about the issues coherently without a pre-written script.

That's bad.

[Cielingcat]

I would like to state that I have $15 and a gift certificate to Microcenter, and I will donate every cent of it to whoever takes up Josh's offer.


In other, State of the Union related news, Obama apparently has a plan to help about college loans, which makes me, personally, extremely happy as I intend to be taking out a number of these loans very soon. I'm not sure how extensive this plan is, mostly because the article that was linked that explains it is unavailable to me. Could someone with a NYTimes account fill me in, as Google has failed me?

[Username17]

To make college more affordable, this bill will finally end the unwarranted taxpayer-subsidies that go to banks for student loans. Instead, let's take that money and give families a $10,000 tax credit for four years of college and increase Pell Grants. And let's tell another one million students that when they graduate, they will be required to pay only ten percent of their income on student loans, and all of their debt will be forgiven after twenty years – and forgiven after ten years if they choose a career in public service. Because in the United States of America, no one should go broke because they chose to go to college.

So... you're fucked.

Because a $10,000 tax credit only matters if you're paying taxes. So if you're, for example, a fucking student, that doesn't do shit for you. I was hoping it would be the Hillary plan where the government took the money it was giving to banks to make loans to students and used it to make loans to students, thereby bringing student loan interest rates down. But um... no. It's more fucked than that.

Basically he's suggesting that instead of the current system that puts lower class kids in severe debt for a long time for trying to claw their way to the upper echelons, that instead working class kids will be straight barred from college.

The fact that this is the "good" proposal, with the "bad" proposal by the Republicans being simply that we make higher education by rich people only (rather than merely middle class and up like the Obama suggestion), makes me sick to my stomach.

-Username17

[Neeeek]

Basically he's suggesting that instead of the current system that puts lower class kids in severe debt for a long time for trying to claw their way to the upper echelons, that instead working class kids will be straight barred from college.

Meh. The system is better now than it was as recently as last June. There's a new program that makes paying off your debt possible, no matter how much you have (and, let's be clear, I probably have more student loan debt than any 2 other people here, and I'm not too concerned about paying them off because of this plan).

The way it works is for everything you make over 150% of the poverty line, you pay 15% of your income towards your student loans(max). If you are in certain jobs (which include any non-elected government position in the US), at the end of 10 years, any outstanding balance to your loan is forgiven. If not in a job that qualifies, you do the same thing, only for 25 years. From what I gather, Obama is suggesting lowering the loan payment from 15% to 10% and shortening the time for the non-qualifying jobs to 20 years.

[Daiba]

I assumed that by ending "unwarranted tax-payer subsidies" he meant this:
Plan to Change Student Lending Sets Up a Fight
It's from April, but I thought it might be the same idea...

[Crissa]

Also, you had to be earning the right amount of income to take the tax credit previously. While Sammi was full-time at school and working, she made too much to use the tax credit. But if you earned too little (like me) you couldn't itemize and take the credit. So basically, unless you had the exact right income, and owned a house, the tax credit was useless.

At least now it basically means anyone working their way through school can earn up to 50K without paying federal taxes.

-Crissa

[Caedrus]

There's a reason why many doctors, nurses and health care experts who know our system best consider this approach a vast improvement over the status quo. But if anyone from either party has a better approach that will bring down premiums, bring down the deficit, cover the uninsured, strengthen Medicare for seniors and stop insurance company abuses, let me know.

I offer $100 in campaign contributions to the first Senator or Representative to say "Single Payer".

[shadzar]

I have been thinking, and while I agree with Josh in what the proper course should be (single payer), I doubt his $100 would make any difference since corporations can now buy and sell politicians as per the ruling that they can contribute as much as they want to campaigns, so likely insurance companies will offer much more to politicians to prevent what is good for the country, and only what lines their own CEOs pockets. Take Lieberman for example....

[Juton]

The whole unlimited corporate contributions ruling opens up an interesting possibility. Would it be possible for a group of citizens from say Europe to band together, form a 'corporation' and strong arm environmental reform through? What if Iran took a big chunk of its oil money and lobbied for the US to reduce the size of its military. Although the optics of an American politician being bought by Iran make that pretty unlikely.

Of course, this ruling is going to get abused. However, does any one have any thoughts about potentially beneficial policies that foreign nationals may try to implement?

[shadzar]

The whole unlimited corporate contributions ruling opens up an interesting possibility. Would it be possible for a group of citizens from say Europe to band together, form a 'corporation' and strong arm environmental reform through? What if Iran took a big chunk of its oil money and lobbied for the US to reduce the size of its military. Although the optics of an American politician being bought by Iran make that pretty unlikely.

Of course, this ruling is going to get abused. However, does any one have any thoughts about potentially beneficial policies that foreign nationals may try to implement?

Actually someone is already working preventing non-Americans from being able to put someone into office via money, but as it is now, ANY corporation in the US can pay any amount in order to put anyone that is eligible into office in the US.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z_UCyOyRU8

So right now, Osama could start a corporation, via puppets, in the US and put someone into office that will do what he wants.

Look at one of the dissents, Justice Stevens in particular @3:20.

[Data Vampire]

Heritage Foundation senior legal expert Hans A. von Spakovsky tells Newsmax he can't recall a president scolding the Supreme Court during a State of the Union message before. "And what makes it even worse is he was patently wrong," von Spakovsky says. "I mean I'm just amazed that he would do that, and he's not even right."

The Supreme Court ruling in no way opens the door to foreign influences in U.S. elections, he says.

"There is a specific provision of the law which was not at issue in the case which prohibits foreign nations, and is specifically designed to include foreign corporations, from contributing or donating any money not just in connection with federal elections, but also with state and local elections," he tells Newsmax. "…And they can't make any independent expenditures for an electioneering communication. So that is just a flat out lie what he said about foreign corporations."

[Josh_Kablack]

Josh, as awful as the health care reform bill is, it's still a vast improvement over the status quo.

Adopting equine veterinary practice as standard procedure for all emergency room patiences would be a vast improvement over the status quo.

You know, the part where they just shoot the horse instead of trying to set bones.

[Lago PARANOIA]

"There is a specific provision of the law which was not at issue in the case which prohibits foreign nations, and is specifically designed to include foreign corporations, from contributing or donating any money not just in connection with federal elections, but also with state and local elections," he tells Newsmax. "…And they can't make any independent expenditures for an electioneering communication. So that is just a flat out lie what he said about foreign corporations."

[Username17]

Since any foreign corporation can register a branch in the US and in less than two weeks be an American Corporation, and they don;t even have to make any money or have any products in order to give as much money as they want to political processes, it's a pretty weird tact to take in scolding Obama.

Even if the law that got struck down was still in force and "foreign" corporations were still barred from political donations, Obama would still be correct that foreign corporations could give as much as they wanted to political campaigns now that corporations in general have been ruled to be able to by the supreme court. Toyota has US stuff, up to and including wholly owned dealerships. They can just transfer their money from Nippon to those holdings, and give it from there.

And the President fights with the supreme court all the time. St. Reagan went after the Supreme Court on Row v. Wade on several occasions.

-Username17

[Kobajagrande]

Plus, its not like someone can't already pay up (relatively little) money to a lobbying firm in Washington and get a full support plan, including, but not limited to, finding and bringing together congressmen willing to advocate your position, having well-known public figures give you public support, and even get APA to publish serious-sounding analysises that support you.

[shadzar]

Josh, as awful as the health care reform bill is, it's still a vast improvement over the status quo.

Adopting equine veterinary practice as standard procedure for all emergency room patiences would be a vast improvement over the status quo.

You know, the part where they just shoot the horse instead of trying to set bones.

They already do that with the wait times in emergency rooms.

Here there were 3 hospitals, that got converted into one.

Total bed space was increased, but ER space and non inpatient space was cut to half of what the 3 had, and since this the population of the area has double.

Also the one hospital has clearly less doctors in it than the 3 did to handle anything, and triage nurses are more than glorified boy scouts.

I say it honestly that I would rather be put down than have to go to ANY hospital within a 200 mile radius of me for anything.

But where the main religion of the country is worshiping the all mighty dollar, that is the best you can expect. Low cost of tools bought form the lowest bidders, and the least amount of work possible for the highest cost of parts and labor....just like a mechanic.

Actually hell a mechanic is cheaper, so I might as well go there than the emergency room, cause they can get to you quicker to talk to you at least.