The Shadowrun Situation

[Kithkanan]

How on earth did you read what Kaelik wrote as it (huh, I remembered) being okay with Coleman weaseling away?

About the same stuff of mine that he read to think I'm trying to make wiggle room or anything. He's obviously okay with letting him use some middle man to confess but I'm not.

[Jilocasin]

Huh, alright then. I'd be terribly surprised if he ever came out and said anything directly. Honestly though, any statement about co-mingling funds to the degree that they were likely co-mingled is pretty damning whether or not it comes from the horse's mouth or the mouth of a friend/lackey. I have no real interest in Shadowrun or Battletech but I do care about the gaming world and integrity in business so if IMR crashes and burns because of mismanagement and screwing over contractors I'll be happy to dance on the ashes whether Coleman ever admits to wrongdoing or not.

[TheFlatline]

Well,

I think we're making progress here. Not much, but some.

We've arrived at a conclusion that being declared not guilty in a court of law clears you of a crime yet can't make you innocent. Earthly or otherwise.

Now. What about an indictment? Much lower burden of proof. (Preponderance of the evidence)

What about a warrant for arrest? (Probable Cause)

Investigation? (Reasonable Suspicion)

For a criminal investigation to happen, someone with a hand in the actual issue must... I dunno... REPORT IT. Unless you live in a world where the police & DA for Washington state read Dumpshock on a daily basis scouring for crimes to investigate.

If you do believe that... I want whatever you're smoking dude, because you're fucking BAKED.

The people who have the ability to make the report refuse to, either because they are married to the person in question or because God told them it was a good idea to suck up and make nice.

No report, no investigation.

As I said, if *I* could start up a criminal investigation, I'd request one right now and let the truth come out. But I can't. The people who best can apparently are covering up.

[Stahlseele]

Another Question:
Anybody know what the legal status of some of the ex-freelaners quitting at CGL and maybe getting a Job at . . say . . maye pegasus spiele who does shadowrun in germany? O.o
I mean, the stuff has to be translated anyway, this would just be cutting out the middleman . . and if the license does go bye bye for CGL, then germany could still produce and release shadowrun material, which would only have to be translated to american this time around, when a new licensee picks it up in some months . . or how ever long this is gonna take . .
And if the freelancers original draft is not changed too much and allready is in english, then it would not even have to be translated i guess. .

If CGL has no license, then Pegasus also has no license.

Depends on wether Pegasus has the license FROM CGL or FROM TOPPS i guess . . i don't know where the license is from, actually . .

[Clutch9800]

Well,

I think we're making progress here. Not much, but some.

We've arrived at a conclusion that being declared not guilty in a court of law clears you of a crime yet can't make you innocent. Earthly or otherwise.

Now. What about an indictment? Much lower burden of proof. (Preponderance of the evidence)

What about a warrant for arrest? (Probable Cause)

Investigation? (Reasonable Suspicion)

For a criminal investigation to happen, someone with a hand in the actual issue must... I dunno... REPORT IT. Unless you live in a world where the police & DA for Washington state read Dumpshock on a daily basis scouring for crimes to investigate.

If you do believe that... I want whatever you're smoking dude, because you're fucking BAKED.

The people who have the ability to make the report refuse to, either because they are married to the person in question or because God told them it was a good idea to suck up and make nice.

No report, no investigation.

As I said, if *I* could start up a criminal investigation, I'd request one right now and let the truth come out. But I can't. The people who best can apparently are covering up.

David Stansel-Garner could.

Jennifer Harding could.

Anyone who worked for, and then left the company could. I wonder why they haven't. If they haven't.

Clutch

[Asbestos Underwear]

For a criminal investigation to happen, someone with a hand in the actual issue must... I dunno... REPORT IT. Unless you live in a world where the police & DA for Washington state read Dumpshock on a daily basis scouring for crimes to investigate.

If you do believe that... I want whatever you're smoking dude, because you're fucking BAKED.

The people who have the ability to make the report refuse to, either because they are married to the person in question or because God told them it was a good idea to suck up and make nice.

No report, no investigation.

As I said, if *I* could start up a criminal investigation, I'd request one right now and let the truth come out. But I can't. The people who best can apparently are covering up.

Don't mistake prosecutorial discretion for prosecutorial obligation. The state has an interest in protecting its people and DA's will sometimes bring charges even when they can't convince a victim to testify. This is especially common in domestic violence cases. Neighbor reports domestic disturbance, police respond, police find that man has beating the living shit out of a woman, woman refuses to press charges out of fear or misbegotten devotion to her man, DA goes ahead and drags the abuser before a jury anyway.

You could request an investigation. I could. Anyone could. We'd probably just get laughed out of a DA's office since we don't know shit and can't help them make a case. Why waste time and money on a case that's going nowhere? That's why an RB, DSG, JH contacting them makes a difference. They actually know facts and can get on the stand and testify, unlike all us rank speculators.

[Username17]

I have it on good authority that Loren Coleman's activities have been reported to local, state, and federal authorities by multiple people. The wheels turn exceedingly slow contrasted with internet hyperbole. Also remember that we are in many cases far away, and even if Loren Coleman does get V&, it'll take a long time for any of us to find out about it.

-Username17

[Centurion13]

... The wheels turn exceedingly slow contrasted with internet hyperbole.

-Username17

That they do. If nothing else, I have been convinced that it's better to just get on with life and check in every now and then. Didn't you say it would be mid-June before the next court date? Meanwhile, have they retained the license? Or is that still up in the air?

Cent13

[Username17]

... The wheels turn exceedingly slow contrasted with internet hyperbole.

-Username17

That they do. If nothing else, I have been convinced that it's better to just get on with life and check in every now and then. Didn't you say it would be mid-June before the next court date? Meanwhile, have they retained the license? Or is that still up in the air?

Cent13

They have not been granted a new license nor has the license been canceled by granting it to anyone else. As I understand it, that means that the license, though over, continues in automatic extension for as long as negotiations take.

-Username17

[A Man In Black]

Well then,

Let us agree to disagree.

[Kaelik]

That is super fucking Epic Man in Black.

[Zinegata]

They have not been granted a new license nor has the license been canceled by granting it to anyone else. As I understand it, that means that the license, though over, continues in automatic extension for as long as negotiations take.

-Username17

Or they're still looking for someone else to pick up the license.

[Centurion13]

Or they're still looking for someone else to pick up the license.

I thought there were at least a few contenders? Frank suggested as much a while back, IIRC.

Cent13

[Crissa]

Topps would probably start sending out feelers to see who else would purchase the license. But quietly, because they probably still want to be paid for the past license agreement.

-Crissa

[adamjury]

There have been companies gunning for the license -- and others just considering it but not going for it, AFAIK -- since the day the news broke. They are going to Topps, not the other way around.

[Username17]

There have been companies gunning for the license -- and others just considering it but not going for it, AFAIK -- since the day the news broke. They are going to Topps, not the other way around.

Yep. Pretty much the entire reason I broke the news in the first place. I consider the current situation - with no printing possible - to be essentially identical to the worst case scenario of no one having the license at all. Convincing other companies that they could bargain for the license and get things moving again is the only thing I could do for Shadowrun under the circumstances.

I genuinely don't care who gets the license, since whatever company takes over is going to appoint a new team to handle things and will probably grab a bunch of old Shadowrun hands, fans, and veterans of other game writing to fill its roster. Since it is that talent that will actually be writing the material I buy and read, and that talent won't be finalized until after they get the license and start hiring people for projects - one solvent company is as good as another.

The key word though is solvent. I've known for years that IMR was sketchy, and I've known for months that IMR was insolvent. Once I had enough evidence, I went public. Public with the three key pieces of data that another company would need t consider making a bid to take over:

• IMR would not hold the license and was not financially solvent.
• The Shadowrun License is itself profitable, the missing money is from malfeasance rather than from a dying game.
• The Shadowrun license was available in the near future.

That's it. Getting that information out there is the best possible chance of saving Shadowrun. If I had been in charge of a game company, I would have just turned in my bid and turned over all my information to Topps directly. But I'm not. I have no power in the industry and am not part of the industry. All I can do is make a loud noise and make sure that companies out there know that the opportunity is there.

-Username17

[Clutch9800]

That is super fucking Epic Man in Black.

Shine on you crazy diamonds!

Clutch

[Draco_Argentum]

So, what are you arguing, Taharqa?

All we know is that money was co-mingled and that has caused some very serious problems with cash flow and related issues with payments. In other words we know that there has been some pretty serious mismanagement at IMR/CGL.

Guise, no wai is this thefts! Is cominglin causin cash flows promlem.

---

You're a morally bankrupt fuckhead.

MiB, that was awesome.

[Username17]

Shine on you crazy diamonds!

Clutch

Could you kindly stop saying that. Comparing people directly to Syd Barret, a man who died of complications of literally incapacitating mental illness is not cool. It's not funny, it's not polite, it's not acceptable in any social context. It is essentially equivalent to telling people that they are going to die of AIDS or cancer.

I understand that you are a total fuck head and a confirmed troll, but there are fucking lines. Stop deliberately crossing them.

-Username17

[Clutch9800]

There are lines? Really? In this Forum there are lines?

I will stop saying it, out of respect for a fellow Pink Floyd fan, and because you "kindly" asked me to.

Not because there are lines when you want there to be, but no limits when it suits you.

We now take you back to regularly scheduled program, already in progress.

Clutch

[Stahlseele]

Well, i've just come back from Nordcon and talked to one of the german shadowrun officials. I will try and talk to him some more via email and the such. The communication between america and germany has, accroding to him, been better than any before in the last half year or so . .
Also, the person i talked to does not seem to think that CGL is going to lose the license. On the other hand, he also mentioned that there are SEVERAL other parties interested in picking up the Shadowrun license at least. And because of this, and Corp. Guide seemingly being held up somewhere but otherwise being about done, he also thinks that there won't be a big hole in the release scedule either . .

[Username17]

I would also like to point out at this point that the only way Shadowrun - or Battletech for that matter - dies at this point is if no company throws their hat into the ring to reinvest in the property and lease the license. This means that people insisting that IMR will get its shit together or casting doubt upon the evidence that IMR is folding are actually hurting those games.

Indeed, not only is such speech harmful to Shadowrun and Battletech, it's the only speech that could be harmful to Shadowrun and Batletech. The games survive because someone with a pile of investing capital is convinced that throwing in a bid to get the license is a good idea. If people cast doubt around it increases the chances that each individual company may "hold off" on making a bid or simply not make a bid at all. And if all the investors fail to make a bid, the game lines sputter out with IMR.

People spouting Pollyanna stuff about how IMR is in reality doing fine encourages capital to look elsewhere - and capital looking elsewhere is bad. People who cast doubt on my data and conclusions are structurally identical to people working to destroy Shadowrun. Not because I have or will have anything to do with the next wave of Shadowrun material - but because my conclusions are that the people who can save Shadowrun (those with the free investment capital required to lease the license and start producing books that will actually be printed) logically speaking should do so. Arguing with my conclusions is arguing that people should not take time and money to come and save Shadowrun (or Battletech). If anyone makes a sufficiently eloquent case to this effect, Shadowrun and Battletech will die.

-Username17

[Lago PARANOIA]

What if these people secretly want Shadowrun to fail, hmm? Did you ever think about that, Frank?

[Username17]

What if these people secretly want Shadowrun to fail, hmm? Did you ever think about that, Frank?

Not as crazy a thought as you'd hope. Structurally speaking, the Battletech freelancers are doing everything in their power to sink the line and destroy Battletech outright. Which isn't a lot, but then they are just freelance creative staff and they don't have a lot of power.

Here's how it works: they are working on material that is being e-published and deferring payments until IMR gets back on its feet. Also they are allowing payments from books printed back when IMR could still print books to go uncollected. What this means is that since IMR will never get back on its feet, the companies that are looking at potentially leasing the Battletech license will note that it comes equipped with a series of debts. They won't properly own copyright on the last few waves of material until they pay the deferred production costs. In short: they will be faced with a choice of either creating a whole new generation of Unseen, or paying the production costs for a bunch of books that can't be expected to sell much because copies of them have already hit retail. That certainly makes leasing the license less attractive, don't you think?


And then of course, there has been their behavior in public. Which has been... pretty amazingly rude and spiteful. But most importantly of all, it has been full of propaganda about how the license does not need to be rescued (which in turn also makes companies less likely to do so). Oh, and tirades about how they have great faith and loyalty in the current people and might walk out if another company takes over (which also makes grabbing the license less attractive).

Indeed, if you were to judge the actions of the BT Production squad merely on the basis of them being rational actors whose actions were chosen to advance their motives - you would be forced to conclude that their motivation was to make sure that Battletech sputters and dies. And yes, that's an entirely plausible outcome, and if it comes to pass it will be because of their great loyalty to Randall Bills - and not because of anything I did or did not do. The BT Freelancers were given every opportunity to be part of the solution, and they almost to a man elected to be part of the problem instead.

-Username17

[Stahlseele]

Well . . wonder if it's a Two for one deal . . do you have to take the Battletech License with the Shadowrun License or the other way around?