The Shadowrun Situation

[kzt]

Monetization is converting a thought or one's labor into . . . money.

I've always gotten the impression that their is an underlying implication that it involves endeavouring to make a profit from something that has little or no intrinsic worth or that profiting from would be morally questionable.

No, the phrase you are looking for is probably "Rent Seeking".

[adamjury]

I got another problem for you. Want figs? Catalyst has nothing to do with them. Go to Ironwind Metals (or whoever it is) or start browsing the internet. Hell I can't even think of a hobby store I've ever been in that had BT figs. Go over to BattleCorps, and they have ONE mech fig available- a discontinued mech from 2005.

CGL has made it as difficult as possible to actually get *into* BattleTech, and that's even in spite of Randall Bills humping it.

To be fair to Catalyst/BattleCorps: they used to carry a lot more minis, but since they have no shipping department in Seattle now, they don't, anymore. (And, it was one of those things that was the Right Thing to do for the community ... but the Wrong Thing to do with regards to directly making money.)

Catalyst also made some efforts to help IWM create some new introductory/tied in with books packs of 'mechs, such as the ones that tied in with the two Starterbooks. But simply, with IWM being an entirely different entity with already-established practices and their own history with the BattleTech community, Catalyst couldn't promote radical change in the miniatures area. That is something that absolutely would have made BattleTech more accessible to gamers and easier to stock for retailers.

[TheFlatline]

I got another problem for you. Want figs? Catalyst has nothing to do with them. Go to Ironwind Metals (or whoever it is) or start browsing the internet. Hell I can't even think of a hobby store I've ever been in that had BT figs. Go over to BattleCorps, and they have ONE mech fig available- a discontinued mech from 2005.

CGL has made it as difficult as possible to actually get *into* BattleTech, and that's even in spite of Randall Bills humping it.

To be fair to Catalyst/BattleCorps: they used to carry a lot more minis, but since they have no shipping department in Seattle now, they don't, anymore. (And, it was one of those things that was the Right Thing to do for the community ... but the Wrong Thing to do with regards to directly making money.)

Catalyst also made some efforts to help IWM create some new introductory/tied in with books packs of 'mechs, such as the ones that tied in with the two Starterbooks. But simply, with IWM being an entirely different entity with already-established practices and their own history with the BattleTech community, Catalyst couldn't promote radical change in the miniatures area. That is something that absolutely would have made BattleTech more accessible to gamers and easier to stock for retailers.

Fair enough. I kind of figured that, but even before this current mess when I started to look for figs for battletech, I got bewildered. Was I buying actual BT figs? Was I purchasing from the supplier? F*ck if I know.

When did the figs half of the line split with the rest of the license? Was it back during FASA days? If so, that sort of sounds like why the book/rules line is so complicated. The entire profitability comes from books, and not from figs.

One of the cardinal rules of business is that you want it to be easy and fun for your customers to spend money and purchase your product. Splitting up things that way and offering no alternatives makes life confusing and your line unfriendly to casual players.

[adamjury]

I am not personally steeped in Ral Partha/IWM lore, but this article is quite accurate from what I know: http://www.purplepawn.com/2010/03/the-c ... iniatures/

[Tiberius]

IWM's History

The TL;DR version:

FASA produced its own miniatures. When they folded and Weisman bought out the Battletech IP he spun off the miniatures production (which was not limited only to BT) because his plan was to convert over to the MWDA plastic system (hence no need for the metal minis). There was a period of around a year where IWM didn't make any Battletech minis, maybe not even until the launch of MWDA. I also think, until Whizkids went under, that IWM had to get their production approved by Whizkids.

The one good component of this is that IWM's license is seperate from CGL's, so relicensing Battletech should have minimal impact on miniature production.

EDIT: adamjury beat me to it.

[LaughingMan2070]

A Time of War is one of the few RPG's where you have a good chance of coming out of chargen with a seriously gimped character by way of losing eyes, ears, fingers, toes, hands, feet, legs or arms . .

Who's that guy who won't let reality get in his way of his argument? Stahlseele! Colour me surprised.

[Stahlseele]

Well, it might have something to do with me trying out the first alpha or beta or what that first release was . . but i distinctively remember there having been at least one character i rolled up with that had lost one arm in a tour of duty . .
As for wizkids being dead:
http://www.toplessrobot.com/2010/06/is_ ... or_you.php

[LaughingMan2070]

So Frankie I was thinking you seem a bit too weaselly in your predictions. You say that the new CGL stuff is vaporware. How about a little wager?? If CGL prints a new book this year you stop posting anything about CGL. If they don't I don't post anything at all. Up for that?? We can set the date at today so you don't have to worry about the stuff they already put out. Deal??

[LaughingMan2070]

Well, it might have something to do with me trying out the first alpha or beta or what that first release was . . but i distinctively remember there having been at least one character i rolled up with that had lost one arm in a tour of duty . .

Oh so you are only an edition behind. Third edition is what your talking about. Good on ya mate. Good on ya.

[Tiberius]

Whizkids the company, the corporation that Jordan Weisman founded, is dead. Their IP was bought by NECA who restarted production of the click gaming systems. Point being, Whizkids is now essentially in the same position as Shadowrun and Battletech, being a franchise of a larger company.

[Kaelik]

So Frankie I was thinking you seem a bit too weaselly in your predictions. You say that the new CGL stuff is vaporware. How about a little wager?? If CGL prints a new book this year you stop posting anything about CGL. If they don't I don't post anything at all. Up for that?? We can set the date at today so you don't have to worry about the stuff they already put out. Deal??

So he would wager his real name with real expertise and real knowledge and real reputation of honesty against a nameless troll who explicitly choose the name of a personless entity with a life of it's own to troll seven posts in a week while probably posting lots of other things on lots of other boards, or even this one, under lots of other names?

Yeah, even if I actually believed you'd follow your word I still wouldn't take this, and this isn't even my real name.

Not to mention if you are in fact Loren Coleman you could print one stupid book from freeing up some money not paying people and then claim "victory."

How about you grow a pair of balls in the future before making bets only enforceable by honor, something you have none of.

[Ganbare Gincun]

So Frankie I was thinking you seem a bit too weaselly in your predictions. You say that the new CGL stuff is vaporware. How about a little wager?? If CGL prints a new book this year you stop posting anything about CGL. If they don't I don't post anything at all. Up for that?? We can set the date at today so you don't have to worry about the stuff they already put out. Deal??

Never make a deal with a dragon, never take a bet from a troll.

[The Vigilante]

We really should all stop feeding the trolls. Most of the last 10 or so pages were irrelevant discussions about the fucking BT storyline and ruleset (start your own thread), or discussions with CGL shills about stuff that all reasonable people here agree upon and understand. Both of these subjects being entertained by said CGL shills and fanboys who obviously intend to derail all constructive discussion of the subject at hand.

BT is just as much a part of any discussion about Catalyst than Shadowrun. The storyline of BT is a part of concern for BT fans. The Shadowrun storyline was also discussed in this thread.

I don't think extended discussions about either storyline is pertinent in a thread regarding the business practices and financial situations of IMR / CGL / LLC. The last couple of pages have been relentless discussions of BT rules and storyline, not just passing mentions of said company fuckups regarding those.

The signal to noise ratio is getting lower, and we're losing track of the subject at hand. You guys obviously have a lot to discuss and debate regarding BT itself, NOT the business side of things. I persist : you should start another thread if you wish to discuss it further.

EDIT :

So Frankie I was thinking you seem a bit too weaselly in your predictions. You say that the new CGL stuff is vaporware. How about a little wager?? If CGL prints a new book this year you stop posting anything about CGL. If they don't I don't post anything at all. Up for that?? We can set the date at today so you don't have to worry about the stuff they already put out. Deal??

Am I the only one who thinks this really puts credence to the assertion that he is related to Loren Coleman, if not LLC himself ?

[Wageslave]

Am I the only one who thinks this really puts credence to the assertion that he is related to Loren Coleman, if not LLC himself ?

Nope, I'm with you on that one.

[martian_bob]

So Frankie I was thinking you seem a bit too weaselly in your predictions. You say that the new CGL stuff is vaporware. How about a little wager?? If CGL prints a new book this year you stop posting anything about CGL. If they don't I don't post anything at all. Up for that?? We can set the date at today so you don't have to worry about the stuff they already put out. Deal??

I'll quote Damon Runyon.

One of these days in your travels, you are going to come across a guy with a nice brand new deck of cards, and this guy is going to offer to bet you that he can make the Jack of Spades jump out of the deck and squirt cider in your ear. But, son, do not take this bet, for if you do, as sure as you are standing there, you are going to end up with an ear full of cider.

[Centurion13]

Am I the only one who thinks this really puts credence to the assertion that he is related to Loren Coleman, if not LLC himself ?

Nope, I'm with you on that one.

Ditto here.

[LaughingMan2070]

Am I the only one who thinks this really puts credence to the assertion that he is related to Loren Coleman, if not LLC himself ?

We do have 99.9% of our genes in common. Almost siblings we are.

Interesting to see Martian Bob has jumped on board with CGL. They would be more fun if they could get a puppet out to match Frankie. Sadly they don't seem to have a good front man. I think that's the chink in their armour.

[Blasted]

They would be more fun if they could get a puppet out to match Frankie. Sadly they don't seem to have a good front man.

Aren't you that puppet?
performance anxiety?

[LaughingMan2070]

So he would wager his real name with real expertise and real knowledge and real reputation of honesty against a nameless troll who explicitly choose the name of a personless entity with a life of it's own to troll seven posts in a week while probably posting lots of other things on lots of other boards, or even this one, under lots of other names?

Strong words from a personless entity who can't count.
Rawr baby can you suck my knob when you're done smoking Frankie's?

[LaughingMan2070]

They would be more fun if they could get a puppet out to match Frankie. Sadly they don't seem to have a good front man.

Aren't you that puppet?
performance anxiety?

No don't like any of the royalty. Slay them all I say. Viva la revolution!

[Crissa]

It's a word that SCO used extensively in their attempt to profit from the work of the Linux community when their own skills were insufficient to create something people were willing to pay for.

That wasn't SCO, it was someone wearing their corpse. Much like Carly Fiorina and HP, or SBC and AT&T.

-Crissa

[Kaelik]

Strong words from a personless entity who can't count.
Rawr baby can you suck my knob when you're done smoking Frankie's?

The Laughing Man is explicitly a symbol of a movement, albeit created by a person. Thus, personless entity. On the other hand, Kaelik is a name for an individual, not a collective, and that individual happens to keep the same name across the entire internet, odds are good that if you search for Kaelik, it will be me, or one of those lucky bastards who were given the name by their genius parents.

Also, hilarious that you had seven posts when I wrote that, and you think that posting 3 more times since then magically changes the past to make me wrong about your count.

[martian_bob]

Am I the only one who thinks this really puts credence to the assertion that he is related to Loren Coleman, if not LLC himself ?

We do have 99.9% of our genes in common. Almost siblings we are.

Interesting to see Martian Bob has jumped on board with CGL. They would be more fun if they could get a puppet out to match Frankie. Sadly they don't seem to have a good front man. I think that's the chink in their armour.

Say what?

[A Man In Black]

STOP REPLYING TO THE TROLLS

[LaughingMan2070]

The Laughing Man is explicitly a symbol of a movement, albeit created by a person. Thus, personless entity. On the other hand, Kaelik is a name for an individual, not a collective, and that individual happens to keep the same name across the entire internet, odds are good that if you search for Kaelik, it will be me, or one of those lucky bastards who were given the name by their genius parents.

Hah! You made me laugh.

Also, hilarious that you had seven posts when I wrote that, and you think that posting 3 more times since then magically changes the past to make me wrong about your count.

Now you made me cry. Lets do some simple maths. You may not be able to follow but others might. 08 June-28 May=11 days. 1 week=7 days. 11=/=7.

Sadly we need a third party. Coleman is a crook. Dave is either a) complicit in Loren's actions or b)the most incompetent office manager ever. The choice between criminal and idiot is a poor one. Weisman hasn't given a shit about RPGs since he sold FASA. So we need to find someone else who can.