The Shadowrun Situation

[Taharqa]

I'm a little confused. RNB's tweet certainly implies four printers, but you're saying only one printer was involved in February. Is it perhaps the case that the printer in February didn't end up printing (or shipping, or is holding, etc.) the books, and there are now four new printers involved? Or is RNB concocting a bogus story about 4 new printers? The latter seems the least likely.

Adam was responding to Frank's claims about the February printing which has no apparent connection with RNB's tweet.

[Username17]

I count four countries - China, Thailand, Canada, and the United States. That certainly implies four printers to me.

Anyway, Sandstorm signed WildFire. Announcement Here.

The part of IMR I cared absolutely the least about now has a new publisher. Hurray? All in all, I think that's positive, because even though I do not care about Cthulhutech even a little bit, what was done to them was not right and they deserve to be able to sell their product on the market and be paid money.

-Username17

[Crissa]

Why would you use the word 'printer' when you said he meant 'prints' or 'books' which are shorter words, adam?

-Crissa

[adamjury]

Why would you use the word 'printer' when you said he meant 'prints' or 'books' which are shorter words, adam?

I did not say that anyone meant 'prints' or 'books'.

Frank said that various print jobs went to 4 different printers, in February. I said this wasn't true; I know this because at the time I was still working at Catalyst, and although I personally didn't send all those jobs to the printer (singular), I did see the soft proofs for each of them.

I do not know what Randall was specifically talking about today, being that I don't work for Catalyst and only speak to Randall when absolutely necessary. But before I left Catalyst, the series of 4 print jobs from that single printer were all off my desk -- I had either approved the proofs or requested that our other graphic designer make changes before they went to press.

[Crissa]

Why would you use the word 'printer' when you said he meant 'prints' or 'books' which are shorter words, adam?

I did not say that anyone meant 'prints' or 'books'.

So then you're not really adding value to this part of the conversation. I say this even knowing you're closer to it than I, as I have never picked a Shadowrun supplement off the shelf that was from IMR/CGL.

-Crissa

[adamjury]

I'm not sure how correcting Frank with information that I know to be true and accurate is not adding value to the conversation.

And I still have absolutely no idea what you're referring to with the below quoted post. Is the 'he' Frank? Wait, did my phrase "printer proofs" confuse you? That's what we call them, regardless of whether they're for a book or a box or a book cover. I wouldn't call them 'prints' or 'books' because that's not what they are.

Why would you use the word 'printer' when you said he meant 'prints' or 'books' which are shorter words, adam?

[Crissa]

Except, you're not correcting. The information you have says, 'In February, we were dealing with a single printer.' That doesn't mean they didn't use a different printer before, or are dealing with several today.

It's really easy to get drawn up into an argument with facts you know - but you had to admit how much you really do know. Like, I may say that my neighbor's house is mustard-colored. And I suspect the far side is the same; but I've never seen it, so I cannot attest that it is indeed mustard. I only know that the front is.

Remember to check for your own limits of perception, they'll bite you in the heel all the time.

-Crissa

[Taharqa]

It's really easy to get drawn up into an argument with facts you know - but you had to admit how much you really do know. Like, I may say that my neighbor's house is mustard-colored. And I suspect the far side is the same; but I've never seen it, so I cannot attest that it is indeed mustard. I only know that the front is.

-Crissa

Crissa, you are out to lunch. Adam was responding specifically to Frank's post about CGL having sent out jobs to four printers in February. Adam responded that all four jobs were sent to a single printer in February.

Neither Frank's original post nor Adam's correction have really much of anything to do with Randall's tweet. I don't know why Frank brought up February printings in response to that, but that is the source of the confusion, not anything Adam said.

[4815162342]

Frank has long stated that CGL/IMR cannot get any books to pulp print. If i'm reading between the lines correctly His statement was tantamount to saying RNB was really talking about books that went to print in February and not books upcoming in print. Despite the fact that in fact with my own eyes and $$ Operation Klondike has already been distributed to FLGS at least in Oklahoma.

[Asbestos Underwear]

Crissa, as much as you want to defend Frank from all comers, he's a big boy and can take care of himself. He got this one wrong. AJ's comment was relevant. He's credible, and he directly contradicted a statement that Frank presented as truth.

Frank previously claimed that the books that had May street dates were sent to print before February and impounded by unpaid printers. Then he changed his tune and said Catalyst used four different printers to run RC, Klondike and two other BT books as part of some shell game designed to get the books without paying for them.

What matters is that Frank's sources re: printing information are apparently unreliable. He was wrong about when Klondike and RC went to print. AJ says he's wrong about how many printers were involved in February. That Frank's been wrong about printing twice (nevermind his initial claim that IMR wouldn't ever be able to print again) calls into question the accuracy of any comment he has about present printing efforts.

[Username17]

Wait, how am I wrong about when Klondike and RC went to print?

They had already gone to print when the shit hit the fan on March 16th. Adam Jury is saying that they all went to the same printer. That may be true. At that time, IMR "was using" printers in four different countries. It's possible that those printers belong to the same company, or it's possible that they ended up having to use only one of their four printers after all because of budget finagling.

But if you'll recall, when I went public in March, Runner's Companion (the only one I was really tracking that closely, because I honestly don't care about Operation Klondike) had already gone to print. It did not get to stores until May 24th.

-Username17

[BeeRockxs]

It's not the when that you were wrong on. You claimed the february books went to 4 different printers, and that no printing company would work anymore with CGL. You were wrong about those two things.

[Username17]

It's not the when that you were wrong on. You claimed the february books went to 4 different printers, and that no printing company would work anymore with CGL. You were wrong about those two things.

I said the first. I never said the second. I can't have been wrong about a statement I didn't make.

-Username17

[adamjury]

Wait, how am I wrong about when Klondike and RC went to print?

They had already gone to print when the shit hit the fan on March 16th.

I didn't do any work on Klondike, and it wasn't among the titles I was supervising in February. I'd suspect it went to press sometime in March. I count six titles, not including Klondike, that all went to the same printer in late Jan to early February.

[Username17]

Wait, how am I wrong about when Klondike and RC went to print?

They had already gone to print when the shit hit the fan on March 16th.

I didn't do any work on Klondike, and it wasn't among the titles I was supervising in February. I'd suspect it went to press sometime in March. I count six titles, not including Klondike, that all went to the same printer in late Jan to early February.

I was told that it had gone to print (past tense) on March 2nd. I suppose it is possible that it had gone to print March 1st. That would be "some time in March." I had always assumed late February.

-Username17

[adamjury]

That's possible. I was on vacation for in early March.

[Ferret]

Interesting:

http://catalystgamelabs.com/2010/06/14/ ... -imminent/

"After weeks of discussion, The Topps Company and Catalyst Game Labs are both pleased to announce that a license extension to the popular intellectual properties of BattleTech and Shadowrun is under final review. All terms have been agreed upon, and the paperwork should be ready for signatures very soon. In the meantime, Catalyst Game Labs continues to operate as manager for the two brands under the operations extension allowed by their original license. "

So, more smokescreen or did Catalyst really manage to fasttalk Topps into letting them keep it?

[martian_bob]

Looks like Topps will be extending the license... http://catalystgamelabs.com/2010/06/14/ ... -imminent/

I'm honestly surprised. I guess Topps doesn't see IMR as in such dire straits?

EDIT: Beaten to the punch!

[Username17]

That announcement doesn't mean anything. They've been under review for a license extension since March. They may well get one, and indeed an extension until August has been on the table for some time.

But they didn't actually provide any evidence that their situation had changed at all. The evidentiary hearing is still on Friday.

-Username17

[Asbestos Underwear]

The only good reason to announce this now, this way is to try to get the petition kicked out. It shows a viable revenue stream. Going through with the hearing on Friday sounds like a surefire way for Wildfire to fuck itself right in the ass. Involuntary motions that get kicked out usually lead to bigtime damages. Better to pull out than to get kicked out.

[Crissa]

Did anyone notice that now Abestos is arguing that Wildfire should pull out of the bankruptcy proceedings, when previously he said they should wait until after IMR's license had expired?

It's almost as if he wants them not to be paid. Because waiting would allow more money to go missing, and pulling out of the proceedings makes IMR immune to further proceedings until a period has passed.

-Crissa

[Asbestos Underwear]

Crissa, why do you fucking think I said they should wait? Perhaps because THIS could happen? Now IMR can go to the bankruptcy judge with license in hand, scream "we have a viable revenue stream," and Wildfire is stuck defending a really weak petition that'll probably be dismissed. Bankruptcy is about future ability to play. The fact that IMR is full of asshats doesn't make a difference if they can show they have revenue and the capacity to pay creditors. Contract suits are the correct recourse at that point.

I'd love for Wildfire to get paid. What I don't like is that it looks like they've been manipulated into taking ill advised legal action and may end up bankrupt themselves after paying costs and damages to IMR. I like CTech. I'd like it to survive.

I've said from the beginning that filing before the license was gone was dangerous and could really hurt them. Nothing about my view has changed. If anything, it's been validated.

[Crissa]

I was just going to post something about how a revenue stream is not the same as asset proof, but...

Look, Abestos, all of your suggestions come down to the solution that your suggestions don't get IMR's creditors paid and Shadowrun destroyed. I don't understand why you'd even suggest such things.

People aren't being paid. Not just today, but last year, too. Why should creditors sit on their hands and let their own debts pile up to wait for the Colemans to finish building their house and then maybe someday come back around to paying off these other debts?

And IMR isn't worth more or less with the license; except that another entity coming in and wanting to use the license has to buy it from them. So in that possibility, you are asserting the creditors should hope for someone to buy out IMR and Colemans not to just pocket the money.

Really, manipulated? Wildfire is a tiny company that only exists when it gets paid. It didn't get paid. They're fighting for their lifeblood here. Your suggestions all seem to be 'leave the Colemans alone, they'll get around to paying you off, 'cause...' 'Cause I dunno!

-Crissa

PS 'this' would happen? Nothing has happened! Even if someone came in tomorrow and gave IMR a million dollars that shouldn't dissuade anyone from pressing bankruptcy because they don't believe IMR will follow its promises and pay them back.

[Stahlseele]

Wonder if LLC would have a new house, if anybody were to give IMR that kind of money . .

[Asbestos Underwear]

Petitioning with Stansel's dad. Signed to Stansel's production stable. "Manipulated" is giving them the benefit of the doubt. There's also a damn decent possibility that they're being used as a corporate meat shield. Wildfire goes for broke and, if they lose, sells the CTech IP to Sandstorm in bankruptcy.

You're making the false assumption that the bankruptcy proceeding gets people paid. If it fails, and it sure as hell seems like it will now that Topps is making public statements in support of IMR, they've pissed money away on lawyers, at the very least. They're also likely to pay out damages. It's done nothing to get them money. They spending money for no gain! Maybe Friday will play out differently than I think, but they're pushing a really shitty case. Google around for involuntary bankruptcy - everything I've read and attorney friends I've asked all say that it's a shot in the dark that almost never works.

You're also a fucking fool if you think that IMR can just sell the license. There's no way in hell that Topps would allow that. If IMR fails, Topps gets the license back and will bid it out again.

You appear to believe that bankruptcy is a way for Wildfire to force IMR to pay them, individually. It's not. It's a bid to destroy IMR outright, give it's non-existant assets to a trustee (what, some office equipment?) and hope they can pierce through to Coleman for his assets to be distributed to everyone that owes money. Courts don't go round destroying companies for shits and giggles. As much as it would be nice to see IMR burn, a court's probably not going to bite when they can show solid revenues from the lines, some financial controls, and support from their licensor. That means Wildfire needs to start a contract suit to get judgment in their favor and a court order to pay.