The Shadowrun Situation

[Crissa]

Please, link to Topps' press release stating that they've been paid or have given a new license to IMR/CGL etc.

-Crissa

[Asbestos Underwear]

A Topps rep is quoted in the IMR release. It's a done deal. It's been pre-announced to make the legal proceeding go away as quickly as possible now that they have a deal in principle. Even a retard can see this

[Crissa]

Only a retard can see this

Fixed.

-Crissa

[TheFlatline]

Actually it still might not make the court proceeding go away. For it to go away IMR still has to pay outstanding debts. They can promise all day long that they have a future revenue source, but they have a documented history of fucking up.

[Gelare]

Didn't we establish that the thing we're talking about is a temporary extension of the license while, I assume, Topps finds someone else to take it over, rather than a full renewal?

[Asbestos Underwear]

Actually it still might not make the court proceeding go away. For it to go away IMR still has to pay outstanding debts. They can promise all day long that they have a future revenue source, but they have a documented history of fucking up.

Dead wrong. IMR needs to demonstrate that it has the capacity to service the debts in the future. If it can, an involuntary bankruptcy won't go through. If they can pay everyone and choose to stiff a particular creditor, he has to sue on his own.

[TheFlatline]

Actually it still might not make the court proceeding go away. For it to go away IMR still has to pay outstanding debts. They can promise all day long that they have a future revenue source, but they have a documented history of fucking up.

Dead wrong. IMR needs to demonstrate that it has the capacity to service the debts in the future. If it can, an involuntary bankruptcy won't go through. If they can pay everyone and choose to stiff a particular creditor, he has to sue on his own.

Unless they stiff 3 or more creditors, in which case the case is still on.

Besides, simply having a license isn't proof that they'll have revenue to pay said debts. They need to show that the licenses are valuable enough to do that... which means... shit... they have to rely on past performance.

Any way you slice it, IMR isn't out of hot water.

[Crissa]

Look, if it 'can' service debts is not the only reason for an involuntary bankruptcy proceedings... They have to prove they will pay.

Elsewise the court will assign someone else to pay with their assets.

-Crissa

[Juton]

I wonder how much Topps cares about Battletech/Shadowrun. Not that they'd have any reason to hate the properties, just Topps never went out of its way to acquire them, they came part and parcel with their acquisition of Wizkids. I wonder how much profit they could expect from either line, it seems that the most profitable part would be the license to make more Mechwarrior video games, I have the impression that they license those rights separately from the P&P games. So is Battletech and Shadowrun profitable enough for Topps to give a shit about?

[cthulhu]

A Topps rep is quoted in the IMR release. It's a done deal. It's been pre-announced to make the legal proceeding go away as quickly as possible now that they have a deal in principle. Even a retard can see this

Hey, when it's signed it's signed. Until then, it's not a done a deal.

Now, IMR is preannoucing it in the hopes of making the speculation go away, but that's a sound tactical move on their part.

[Asbestos Underwear]

I wonder how much Topps cares about Battletech/Shadowrun. Not that they'd have any reason to hate the properties, just Topps never went out of its way to acquire them, they came part and parcel with their acquisition of Wizkids. I wonder how much profit they could expect from either line, it seems that the most profitable part would be the license to make more Mechwarrior video games, I have the impression that they license those rights separately from the P&P games. So is Battletech and Shadowrun profitable enough for Topps to give a shit about?

Topps doesn't have the electronic rights. FASA Interactive had the electronic game rights, and they went to Microsoft when FASA went under. MS recently assigned them to Smith and Tinker, the latest Jordan Weisman startup.

[Username17]

The quote from Topps is so out of context that it could mean anything. It's just the corp speak saying that they would continue working with IMR if they signed a contract to that effect. Which as of the announcement, they had not done. The announcement is one of total desperation. Maybe they'll get an extension of some amount of time, maybe they will not. But nothing changed for them to make an announcement yesterday. They have been waiting for that signature and in review for three months. According to their press release, they are still in that exact same situation. The vaguely positive and totally noncommittal Topps quote isn't even dated.

What kind of situation are you in when you release a positive press release when you have no news at all?

-Username17

[Orca]

What kind of situation are you in when you release a positive press release when you have no news at all?

Sounds like Situation Normal to me.

[Taharqa]

Wow you take off for the day and look what happens. Its rather amusing to watch Frank try to spin this one. CGL/IMR's press release couldn't be clearer: they are going to secure the licenses for Battletech and Shadowrun. I seriously doubt they would publicly misquote a Topps employee if anything was still up in the air.

The lawsuit quip is just classic misdirection, so that people won't notice that you were flat wrong in your predictions about CGL/IMR's fate. The clear implication is that you have been wrong in your speculation about the depth of CGL/IMR's problems. Either that or Topps is stupid and/or complicit. I know which explanation you will choose, but for the rest of us who never joined your mob, the proof is in the pudding.

[Crissa]

What? How could you possibly read that?

No one has been paid yet, and Topps haven't released any information related to this deal.

How does that change the fact that debts are unpaid and so creditors are asking for court authority to be paid from company assets?

-Crissa

[setmonster]

Wow you take off for the day and look what happens. Its rather amusing to watch Frank try to spin this one. CGL/IMR's press release couldn't be clearer: they are going to secure the licenses for Battletech and Shadowrun. I seriously doubt they would publicly misquote a Topps employee if anything was still up in the air.

The lawsuit quip is just classic misdirection, so that people won't notice that you were flat wrong in your predictions about CGL/IMR's fate. The clear implication is that you have been wrong in your speculation about the depth of CGL/IMR's problems. Either that or Topps is stupid and/or complicit. I know which explanation you will choose, but for the rest of us who never joined your mob, the proof is in the pudding.

I think much of the reaction is not to do with spin so much, but more a state of disbelief.

I, for one, am quite surprised (even a little bit offended) that a bunch of liars and cheats and spivs can treat their associates (freelances, publishers, even Topps) so badly, yet still be rewarded with a licence extension.

How on Earth did CGL get away with it?

I wonder: what is the point in being honest and actually treating the people you work with with some respect, if you can just be a bastard and get away with the whole time?

[Taharqa]

I think much of the reaction is not to do with spin so much, but more a state of disbelief.

I, for one, am quite surprised (even a little bit offended) that a bunch of liars and cheats and spivs can treat their associates (freelances, publishers, even Topps) so badly, yet still be rewarded with a licence extension.

How on Earth did CGL get away with it?

Precisely my point. You have been so caught up in the hyperbole and exaggeration on this thread and elsewhere that another possible explanation has been completely overlooked: maybe the situation was never as bad as Frank wanted you to believe it was.

[Username17]

It's bad news of course. But it's also non news. The actual statement is:

• CGL has the operation extension as per their original contract while negotiations are ongoing.
• They have a contract extension for an unspecified amount of time that is awaiting final review and is not signed.
• Yay!

But here's the thing: that has been the situation for three months. The operation extension being in force just means that the negotiations are still ongoing. The unsigned extension to their contract has never gone away. What exactly are they announcing?

-Username17

[Blasted]

The lawsuit quip is just classic misdirection, so that people won't notice that you were flat wrong in your predictions about CGL/IMR's fate. The clear implication is that you have been wrong in your speculation about the depth of CGL/IMR's problems. Either that or Topps is stupid and/or complicit. I know which explanation you will choose, but for the rest of us who never joined your mob, the proof is in the pudding.

I believe that Frank is saying that it's an extension to the existing extension, rather than a grant of the license.
FWIW I rarely tell companies that they're a bunch of lying losers to their face until after I've finished dealing with them. I expect that the Topps relationship manager is at least as professional as that.

If IMR has the license granted for the next financial year and Friday has the bankruptcy lawsuit dropped, then I think IMR can be cocky. But this announcement is more about reassuring the natives than actually announcing anything. More something that you would expect from a public company with shareholders to appease.

[Taharqa]

What? How could you possibly read that?

How? I used my internet browser to navigate to the CGL website and read this:

After weeks of discussion, The Topps Company and Catalyst Game Labs are both pleased to announce that a license extension to the popular intellectual properties of BattleTech and Shadowrun is under final review. All terms have been agreed upon, and the paperwork should be ready for signatures very soon. In the meantime, Catalyst Game Labs continues to operate as manager for the two brands under the operations extension allowed by their original license.

“Working with The Topps Company continues to be a pleasure,” said Randall Bills, Catalyst’s Managing Developer. “We feel we are improving relations every day.”

Tina Trenkler, The Topps Company manager overseeing Catalyst’s operations, said, “We are very happy to have Catalyst continue to be involved with these important licenses and are fully supportive in helping them regain their footing.”

(emphasis mine)

No one has been paid yet, and Topps haven't released any information related to this deal.

Actually, if you look at the highlighted part above you will see a direct quote from Topps.

How does that change the fact that debts are unpaid and so creditors are asking for court authority to be paid from company assets?

1..2..3...Misdirection!!

[Asbestos Underwear]

Frank, you're trying to put lipstick on a pig at this point.

After weeks of discussion, The Topps Company and Catalyst Game Labs are both pleased to announce that a license extension to the popular intellectual properties of BattleTech and Shadowrun is under final review. All terms have been agreed upon, and the paperwork should be ready for signatures very soon. In the meantime, Catalyst Game Labs continues to operate as manager for the two brands under the operations extension allowed by their original license.

Parse the language. There's an existing operations extension and a new extension with specific terms that have been agreed to by both parties. They're separate. The operation extension is how they've been going for the last few weeks and how Corp. Guide got out the door despite the fact that, per JMH, the license expired June 1.

The new agreement is whatever they've banged out for the future, which isn't the same as what's been going on for months. They've been getting audited for months. Topps has been reviewing other offers for months. Until now, it wasn't a certainty that IMR would get any extension at all, be it to GenCon or for three years. Claiming everything is the same is ignoring reality.

But nothing's been signed, you say!? Big fucking deal. Of course they were going to announce it the second an agreement in principle was reached. IMR wants to kill litigation. Topps wants it clear that there's a licensee for the properties and that they're not in limbo or dead. It makes no business sense for either side to hold the announcement while Topps' lawyers to draw up the final agreement, for that to be reviewed by outside counsel, for it to be signed, FedEx'ed, countersigned and returned.

That's an ostrich argument at best. Same thing with trying to spin the Topps quote as some mundane snippet from months ago that's being re-hashed in the PR. I've dealt with mid/large businesses a lot and I'm damn sure Topps signed off on the quote, dictated who it was attributed to, and approved the release as a whole. Whether it's a day or year old doesn't matter, as Topps controlled it, start to finish. This isn't the kind of stuff that a sublicensee sends out willy nilly. If they screw up and announce something without it getting vetted by their lord and master, balls get nailed to walls.

Tina Trenkler, The Topps Company manager overseeing Catalyst’s operations, said, “We are very happy to have Catalyst continue to be involved with these important licenses and are fully supportive in helping them regain their footing.”

People are so busy trying to deny the reality of some sort of deal that they've skipped the most interesting part of the PR. For some reason Tina Trenkler's described as a generic "manager," but her LinkedIn profile's got her as the VP of Operations. Understating her title and emphasizing that she's "overseeing Catalyst's operations" suggests Topps is getting involved in day to day affairs at Catalyst. I wonder how heavy handed it's going to be.

[Crissa]

Ooo, yes, misdirection, aka, focusing on the source of this thread, that freelancers and creditors weren't paid.

They're still not paid.

Though I did miss the name of the Topps' account manager.

-Crissa

[knasser]

That announcement doesn't mean anything. They've been under review for a license extension since March. They may well get one, and indeed an extension until August has been on the table for some time.

Well it does mean one thing, unfortunately. It means that CGL have longer to pump out any PDF filled with any scraps of material they have to hand in a short-term moneygrab. I fear the consequences for Shadowrun cannon.

Though to be honest, if CGL do keep the licence, I doubt I'll be buying anything more from them. I'll just stick with the existing 4th Ed. materials.

K.

[Fuchs]

Though to be honest, if CGL do keep the licence, I doubt I'll be buying anything more from them. I'll just stick with the existing 4th Ed. materials.

K.

This. I skipped the latter part of SR3, and the first 2 years of SR4 without any trouble. I don't see myself having trouble skipping what CGL puts out.

[Stahlseele]

well, this here sounds more like it:
http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?s ... t&p=942139