Where did Japan get its money from?

[Maj]

The number one reason people want to live somewhere is because they get paid more there. The number of $100K jobs per capita in the Bay Area is just plain higher than Seattle or Oklahoma City.

So if you move away from the jobs... You're stuck with lesser jobs. And of course, subsistence living is highly frowned upon in this country.

As much as I agree with you on the money thing, I don't believe that people do the math. I think that most people who take a higher paying job in a more urban area are impressed by the zeros and not really aware of the higher cost of living. Granted, the only thing I have to go on are personal anecdotes, but I have a good stockpile from family and friends.

Personally, Ess and I are tossing around the idea of moving overseas. He's a writer online, so we can go anywhere there's an internet connection. If we move to a place with a much better exchange rate, our standard of living will really go up. And we'll have the added bonus of traveling.

[MfA]

Also, if you wanna deny that jobs exists in places like say, Seattle

What's the unemployment rate in say Seattle? 10%?

[Maj]

Also, if you wanna deny that jobs exists in places like say, Seattle

What's the unemployment rate in say Seattle? 10%?

According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, as of April 2010, it's 8.2%.

[Crissa]

As much as I agree with you on the money thing, I don't believe that people do the math.

Oh, probably not.

In fact, I know that many people are suckered to come to the Bay Area for higher wages - and find out they're actually being hired at scabs below the rate needed to maintain their standard of living.

But that doesn't escape the basic principle that people come for jobs, and better paying jobs results in higher costs to live there because of competition for resources like housing, land for food, etc.

I certainly know that while my Sammi could be making more here than she is... She'd be making much less if she worked anywhere else in the country. So much less so we'd not be in a house we own right now.

Sure, it's cheap to live in Detroit. But what job will you do there?

-Crissa

[Zinegata]

Crissa->

Blah, blah, blah. Whatever. You're claiming Seattle is expensive based on a consumer index... that you say is faulty anyway because San Jose is actually "cheap" and is 10 times cheaper than Seattle?

Have your cake and eat it.

Places are expensive for a reason. Cali has good weather, good views and vistas, access to Hollywood, and a lot of crazy stupid developers driving up property prices. While economic activity brings up property prices, attributing it all because Cali is so awesome for jobs is just dumb.

Also... Seattle does have half a dozen big IT companies - including Cray and Amazon. So if you look for an IT job or be an outsourcer you can do fairly well there. But it's not exactly an IT hub. However, if you wanna work for Starbucks and think that your talents lie there, then Seattle is the way to go.

Talk to the hand. And eat your cake while having it.

[Zinegata]

Personally, Ess and I are tossing around the idea of moving overseas. He's a writer online, so we can go anywhere there's an internet connection. If we move to a place with a much better exchange rate, our standard of living will really go up. And we'll have the added bonus of traveling.

Have you considered South East Asia?

Thailand was a very popular choice until recently (the whole street riots thing and all) - Thai currency is massively undervalued vs the US dollar since the Asian financial crisis.

The Philippines is also home a growing number of foreigners. The exchange rate is similarly good, there are already enclaves established specifically for foreigners, and pretty much everyone speaks English.

Singapore is also a great place to move to. I'm not sure if the same policy applies for Westerners but they're encouraging immigrants from Asia nowadays to combat the crashing birth rate. Costs of living is a bit lower despite the whole city being a very modern Western city. Only issue may be the frenetic pace the country has compared to the more relaxed attitude in Thailand and the 'Pines.

[Count Arioch the 28th]

Isn't Singapore where they beat you half to death for littering? I'm not saying it's not a pleasant place, but the term I heard for Singapore is "Disneyland if it had the Death Penalty".

I've known too many Filipinos that had nothing nice to say about the Philippines. According to them, they've been at civil war for quite some time with Islamic separatist groups and that things aren't going too well there.

Don't know any Thais, so I have no strong preconceived notions either positive or negative about the place.

[Zinegata]

Nah, that's a lot of myth-making.

Singapore does not beat people half to death for littering. They do, however, strictly enforce the fines for littering. Singapore laws are strict, but not oppressive.

Any Filipino who thinks there's still a "civil war" (and with Muslims no less) hasn't been home for a long, long, long, long time.

There are two long-running insurgencies - one against the Commies, and one against the Islamics - but the former is pretty much done and over with, while the latter only flares up occassionally.

The Muslim "insurgency" is also entirely limited to the southern island of Mindanao.

Most foreigners live in Metro Manila, or in Cebu. The former is a modern Westernized city, the latter is a charming port town.

I've lived in the Philippines all my life, and if there's been a war going on in this country, I think I would have noticed the people shooting at each other every day .

[Crissa]

Places are expensive for a reason. Cali has good weather, good views and vistas, access to Hollywood, and a lot of crazy stupid developers driving up property prices. While economic activity brings up property prices, attributing it all because Cali is so awesome for jobs is just dumb.

Yes, it is a beautiful state. So is its economy.

There's lots of pretty states. Washington is beautiful and Seattle has more sunny days than San Francisco, and higher summer temperatures, and about as much rain due to the rain shadow of the Olympics.

You're an idiot.

-Crissa

[Count Arioch the 28th]

I've lived in the Philippines all my life, and if there's been a war going on in this country, I think I would have noticed the people shooting at each other every day .

Ah. For some reason, I thought you were Portuguese.

Like I forgot to say, I'm just going on what people have told me. Although I have ruled out southeast asia as anyplace I would ever volunatarily live. It's nothing personal, I just really, really, really, cannot handle heat. It's been above 35 C every day here for the past month and I'm so impacted both physically and mentally that I feel almost handicapped, I don't know what I would do in a place like southeast asia that gets some ACTUAL heat. If I was in a position to relocate and had some sort of skill anyone was interested in, I would relocate to Scandinavia. Preferably as close to the arctic circle as I could manage. I am totally down for social programs and snow every day.

[Crissa]

While high temperatures are uncomfortable, at least they can contain enough humidity to make the air breathable.

-Crissa

[Zinegata]

Ah. For some reason, I thought you were Portuguese.

Like I forgot to say, I'm just going on what people have told me. Although I have ruled out southeast asia as anyplace I would ever volunatarily live. It's nothing personal, I just really, really, really, cannot handle heat. It's been above 35 C every day here for the past month and I'm so impacted both physically and mentally that I feel almost handicapped, I don't know what I would do in a place like southeast asia that gets some ACTUAL heat. If I was in a position to relocate and had some sort of skill anyone was interested in, I would relocate to Scandinavia. Preferably as close to the arctic circle as I could manage. I am totally down for social programs and snow every day.

That's why there's plenty of airconditioning in SE Asia . It's only really hot for a couple of summer months. Besides, there are places like Baguio in the Philippines where it's cool year-round.

If heat is really an issue, then Latin America - particularly Argentina and Chile - may be a better option for you.

Scandanavia's exchange rates and costs of living doesn't really make it a good place to relocate. And you only get the social benefits if you're a citizen. So unless you can immigrate, get a job, learn the language, and wait for full citizenship, Scandanavia isn't all that good a place to move.

You might as well just take the drive north to Canada, as getting Canadian citizenship would prolly be faster .

[Zinegata]

You're an idiot.

-Crissa

And you're still illiterate. I'm through talking with you on this topic.

[Count Arioch the 28th]

If heat is really an issue, then Latin America - particularly Argentina and Chile - may be a better option for you.

Scandanavia's exchange rates and costs of living doesn't really make it a good place to relocate. And you only get the social benefits if you're a citizen. So unless you can immigrate, get a job, learn the language, and wait for full citizenship, Scandanavia isn't all that good a place to move.

You might as well just take the drive north to Canada, as getting Canadian citizenship would prolly be faster .

Latin America wouldn't be too bad, my Spanish is stronger than my Swedish.

I don't think I could emigrate to Scandinavia, but my GF (who is a doctor) could do it easier. Too bad she's opposite in that she can't handle cold

And it is harder for an American to get Canadian citizenship than it is for anyone else. The NAFTA treaty only applies to Mexicans and Canadians that want American jobs, not the other way.

[Maj]

Hey, Zinegata - I've always wanted to go to Thailand, but I haven't done too much research on getting there. While I am a heat wimp, I'm also willing to get over it for the sake of awesomeness.

[Koumei]

Just because this has wandered off topic to the point that this thread is the most relevant...

One of my friends has been living in China the past few years. And wants to gain citizenship there. Because...

The police are more helpful (than in Australia)
There is more freedom from religion (than in Australia)
It's less racist (than Australia)
People have more personal (if not political) freedoms (than Australia)

Consider that. Given China is, according to most news sources, still the BIG BAD EVIL COMMUNIST LAND where the police desperately try to shoot the entire population and everyone lives under constant robot surveillance or something.

On the plus side, I managed to get President Medvedev's address, so I might be able to ask him to ask Mr. Putin to invade Australia and bring it under Soviet rule.

[Count Arioch the 28th]

China is like anyplace else. If you have money, you are in paradise. If you don't, you envy the dead. Just like any other place in the world.

[Zinegata]

Hey, Zinegata - I've always wanted to go to Thailand, but I haven't done too much research on getting there. While I am a heat wimp, I'm also willing to get over it for the sake of awesomeness.

The requirements to get into Thailand are fairly easy - there are no long lines and little paperwork.

You'd probably want to just apply for residency though (which they will never, ever turn down. Thais rely very much on tourist and expat money) - so it's easier for you to visit the US whenever you want if you remain a US citizen.

Also, China is not racist? Hello? I'm Filipino-Chinese and I've yet to meet someone from the mainland who hasn't been indoctrinated with the idea that China is Numbah One. Sure, they don't use English slurs like the n-word, but if you speak their language the xenophobia and "China is holier than every nation in the world" really come out.

That being said, if you've got money you can pretty much buy anything in China. It really has turned into an Oligarchy. However, I really don't recommend China to Maj due to her husband's line of work. You can make plenty of money in China if you're into industries and manufacturing. However, China is much less attractive for an Internet author. Not a lot of people speak English, censorship does happen quite regularly, and there are days when the Politburo gets possessed by the ghost of Mao and does stupid shit.