The Shadowrun Situation

Panzerfaust 150 · Post by **Panzerfaust 150** » Sun Jun 27, 2010 2:47 pm

Centurion13 wrote: Edit: You know, after taking a good look at some of the posts on the CGL forums and ruminating on the behavior of the local BattleTech League, I have come to the conclusion that the game attracts a lot of moral retards. And that the mentally-challenged appearance of some are a result of the moral decay.

Man, you and my wife, she's been saying the same thing for years!:shocked:...And yeah...it's creepy all around. I can only hope that it's a temporary extension and not a more permanent one!

EDIT: Whoops, missed the post by Frank...good to hear, but wanna bet they are on their best behavior till the contract gets renewed and then...minute Topps turns it's back...they're back to their old tricks. And all that was said about Herb? Agreed.

Centurion13 · Post by **Centurion13** » Mon Jun 28, 2010 2:38 am

Panzerfaust 150 wrote:... wanna bet they are on their best behavior till the contract gets renewed and then...minute Topps turns it's back...they're back to their old tricks.

Oy, if the reports are true, then their old tricks never actually stopped.

Not surprising. I get the feeling neither Coleman or Bills has a very high regard for the average RnF gamer. Three years of ceaseless fawning adulation from gamers while you're picking their collective pockets tends to erode respect for said suckers, I suppose.

Cent13

BeeRockxs · Post by **BeeRockxs** » Mon Jun 28, 2010 6:23 am

Centurion13 wrote: Not surprising. I get the feeling neither Coleman or Bills has a very high regard for the average RnF gamer. Three years of ceaseless fawning adulation from gamers while you're picking their collective pockets tends to erode respect for said suckers, I suppose.

There hasn't been a hint of evidence or even rumours that Bills has done anything like that. If anything, Coleman has taken money that actually belongs to Bills.

Blasted · Post by **Blasted** » Mon Jun 28, 2010 6:27 am

BeeRockxs wrote:
Centurion13 wrote: Not surprising. I get the feeling neither Coleman or Bills has a very high regard for the average RnF gamer. Three years of ceaseless fawning adulation from gamers while you're picking their collective pockets tends to erode respect for said suckers, I suppose.
There hasn't been a hint of evidence or even rumours that Bills has done anything like that. If anything, Coleman has taken money that actually belongs to Bills.

I agree. Bills has never had regard for the average RnF gamer.

What? You mean Bills has never stolen/philandered/defrauded/accidently-withdrew-$850K? True, he merely aided and abetted. Which is not quite as bad, I guess.

Stahlseele · Post by **Stahlseele** » Mon Jun 28, 2010 8:14 am

heads up, this here seems to come directly from bull, which i can't really prove, seeing how dumpshock is down again:

Random note from an exhausted, sleep depped GM just getting home from Gen Con... It was stated by Tara and Brent at the "What's Up With..." seminar at the convention that the extension was for 6 months, which was what CGL requested, not Topps. This was several hours before the license was finalized (And it was stated taht it was still pending finalization at the seminar) on Friday.
[..]
The entire convention was very positive. Tara briefed the GMs a bit about the situation and asked that we not discuss the situation with players if they ask about it, but should refer them to Tara, Brent, or Amy at the booth. Nobody really asked anything though, and those that did comment on it, it seemed to be, as I said, very positive. The players just want to continue to get Shadowrun product.
[..]

TheFlatline · Post by **TheFlatline** » Mon Jun 28, 2010 9:45 am

So apparently, you can wipe your ass on a piece of paper, slap a Shadowrun title on it, and there will be people who will be desperate to play...

I guess that means we'll see the quality of SR writing continue to go downhill/off on tangents.

Oh well. I'm intrigued with Eclipse Phase.

Clutch9800 · Post by **Clutch9800** » Mon Jun 28, 2010 1:00 pm

I agree. Bills has never had regard for the average RnF gamer.

What? You mean Bills has never stolen/philandered/defrauded/accidently-withdrew-$850K? True, he merely aided and abetted. Which is not quite as bad, I guess.

I take some umbrage with this.

Randall Bills does respect the average gamer. I have spoken to him at length about this exact topic and I know where he stands on it. The reason I know is that I whent through a phase where I had little respect for the average gamer, and Randall brought me around as to why my thoughts on the matter were ill advised.

Randall has kept his own counsel on the Coleman debacle. Aside from what he's spoken about publically, no one knows his true motivation but himself and those he has chosen to confide in. My guess is that he knows he won't see a dime of the money he's owed until he gets it out of Coleman. And yes, sometimes the "devil you know" is easier to deal with than the unknown.

He's in a very unenviable position. I know it would be a little tough for me to let 10 years of screwdriver work swirl down the toilet without a fight.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. I trust Randall Bills. He's given me every reason in the world to trust him. I'm of the opinion that whatever the reason for the way his involvement has played out, it's a good one.

And until shown hard, irrefutable evidence otherwise, my opinion (for what it's worth) isn't likely to change.

Clutch

Wesley Street · Post by **Wesley Street** » Mon Jun 28, 2010 3:45 pm

adamjury wrote:Why wouldn't they, Wesley? Catalyst SOP -- which didn't always get followed, but should have -- was to wait until they could confirm the in-store street date, and then announce it.

Let me tweak my original statement: I wonder why Catalyst is announcing a product when the street date is still weeks away.

I don't have hard data in front of me but for the past three or so years Catalyst seems to have only announced SR products the week they're actually available in stores. I certainly don't think it's a bad thing. I'm simply wondering what's changed and why now.

Fuchs · Post by **Fuchs** » Mon Jun 28, 2010 3:52 pm

They want money earlier by pdf sales is my guess.

As a side benefit they get proofreading partially free by posters listing typos, errors, copyright infringements etc. in their reviews.

martian_bob · Post by **martian_bob** » Mon Jun 28, 2010 4:07 pm

So here's an interesting news post:
Catalyst Game Labs Wins 2010 Origins Awards

They count the Origins awards won by Poo and Eclipse Phase along with the two awards for Battletech books for a total of four awards they "won". Specifically, they list those products as having been produced "in conjunction" with Wildfire and Posthuman, respectively.

BeeRockxs · Post by **BeeRockxs** » Mon Jun 28, 2010 4:50 pm

Blasted wrote: What? You mean Bills has never stolen/philandered/defrauded/accidently-withdrew-$850K? True, he merely aided and abetted. Which is not quite as bad, I guess.

So let me get this straight, you believe Randall Bills helped Coleman embezzle/comingle money that belongs to the company he co-owns?
Yeah, right.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Mon Jun 28, 2010 5:34 pm

BeeRockxs wrote:
Blasted wrote: What? You mean Bills has never stolen/philandered/defrauded/accidently-withdrew-$850K? True, he merely aided and abetted. Which is not quite as bad, I guess.
So let me get this straight, you believe Randall Bills helped Coleman embezzle/comingle money that belongs to the company he co-owns?
Yeah, right.

Considering that he said he was doing that in an address to the freelancers, that seems like a pretty safe assumption.

-Username17

Clutch9800 · Post by **Clutch9800** » Mon Jun 28, 2010 5:36 pm

FrankTrollman wrote:
BeeRockxs wrote:
Blasted wrote: What? You mean Bills has never stolen/philandered/defrauded/accidently-withdrew-$850K? True, he merely aided and abetted. Which is not quite as bad, I guess.
So let me get this straight, you believe Randall Bills helped Coleman embezzle/comingle money that belongs to the company he co-owns?
Yeah, right.
Considering that he said he was doing that in an address to the freelancers, that seems like a pretty safe assumption.

-Username17

Unless we're reading two different documents, I don't see where he said that.

Can you give me a quote, because it wouldn't be the first time I've missed something.

Clutch

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Mon Jun 28, 2010 5:45 pm

Randall Bills wrote: Considering how long I’ve been involved, and how much blood, sweat and tears I’ve given for Catalyst, I’ve seen a lot of “How can Randall continue to work with Loren?” I’ve obviously known the Colemans for a very, very long time and been involved intimately with the company from the day the idea was born 8 years ago. And after reviewing everything and doing some massive soul searching, I’ve made a personal decision that this was a terrible, terrible series of mistakes; I bear my own weight of guilt in this in that I didn’t pay better attention to the various red flags raised over the years that something wasn’t right

So... he accepts partial responsibility for the embezzlement and continues to work with the embezzler.

-Username17

Clutch9800 · Post by **Clutch9800** » Mon Jun 28, 2010 5:58 pm

Okay,

I'm sorry Frank, but being remorseful that you didn't see the forest for the trees and accepting partial responsibility for embezzlement aren't the same thing.

Every swinging johnson that worked at that place knew something wasn't right. I wonder why they didn't speak up until just before the license was due to expire?

Yeah, I do wonder about that.

Clutch

Juton · Post by **Juton** » Mon Jun 28, 2010 6:00 pm

He was saying mea culpa, it was his responsibility to watch over the books and he didn't do enough oversite. Which is exactly what happened. I've always assumed that Coleman promised to repay what he stole over time and that is why CGL/IMR hasn't disintegrated. What he actually said to his team and what he actually will end up doing is unknown to me and everyone else on this board.

magnuskn · Post by **magnuskn** » Mon Jun 28, 2010 7:07 pm

So, no reset to the Jyhad non-sense? Oh, well. At least I'll get to keep my "the BattleTech story ended after the Grand Refusal, lalala I can't hear you" standpoint.

And I've moved on to better fictional universes, anyway. That George R.R. Martin is an amazing writer! <threadjack>

Juton · Post by **Juton** » Mon Jun 28, 2010 7:38 pm

The best thing they can do with the Jihad is just let a lot of in-game time pass, they should just jump to 3133. In that year it's been established what's happening in the central republic, but all the other houses and clans are pretty much a clear canvas for them to paint on.

Clutch9800 · Post by **Clutch9800** » Mon Jun 28, 2010 7:47 pm

Juton wrote:The best thing they can do with the Jihad is just let a lot of in-game time pass, they should just jump to 3133. In that year it's been established what's happening in the central republic, but all the other houses and clans are pretty much a clear canvas for them to paint on.

I disagree.

20 years is the biggest Fast Forward we've seen since the game started back in the early 80's.

20 years is all they should do now, and 15 would be better.

Clutch

P.S. To prevent another near threadjack I'm going to create a new thread so us BattleTech fans can engage in a little internet hyperbole of our own.

magnuskn · Post by **magnuskn** » Mon Jun 28, 2010 7:48 pm

Juton wrote:The best thing they can do with the Jihad is just let a lot of in-game time pass, they should just jump to 3133. In that year it's been established what's happening in the central republic, but all the other houses and clans are pretty much a clear canvas for them to paint on.

Well, I can say that the "and there's a Wolf Clan mechwarrior who was made out of Katrinas and Victors genes, by Katrinas personal request" thing made me facepalm and headdesk at the same time.

Stahlseele · Post by **Stahlseele** » Mon Jun 28, 2010 7:52 pm

We all knew her to be one sick puppy . .

martian_bob · Post by **martian_bob** » Mon Jun 28, 2010 8:50 pm

Clutch9800 wrote: Every swinging johnson that worked at that place knew something wasn't right. I wonder why they didn't speak up until just before the license was due to expire?

Probably because no one had called shenanigans on what was going on until the Wildfire guys got sick of not being paid, at which point all hell seems to have broken loose.

Stahlseele · Post by **Stahlseele** » Mon Jun 28, 2010 9:24 pm

It's easier to chime in than to be the first to raise his voice.

Bull · Post by **Bull** » Mon Jun 28, 2010 10:41 pm

Stahlseele wrote:heads up, this here seems to come directly from bull, which i can't really prove, seeing how dumpshock is down again:

DS is up again (our hosting blows goats), and it did come from me. Unless you mean you can't prove that what *I* said was true, in which case... Well, neither can I. I didn't record the conversation or anything.

But, to reiterate, according to Brent Evans and Tara Bills, as discussed during the public CGL Seminar at Origins, CGL has been operating under a temporary license extension since it ran out last month (or beginning of this month, or whatever), and that they now have a full 6 month extension that runs through the end of the year.

Bull

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Tue Jun 29, 2010 12:01 am

Bull wrote:
Stahlseele wrote:heads up, this here seems to come directly from bull, which i can't really prove, seeing how dumpshock is down again:
DS is up again (our hosting blows goats), and it did come from me. Unless you mean you can't prove that what *I* said was true, in which case...

Since I don't think whether dumpshock is up or not has any effect on proving that what you said is true, I'm guessing it's the first one.