Lago_AM3P at [unixtime wrote:1166737113[/unixtime]]The way you guys are describing WoD makes the protagonists sound downright twisted, even if they do their best to emphasize the 'good' aspects of whatever the fvck they're fighting for. What gives, gentle reader?
Just to be clear, I wasn't trying to assert that all those traits existed simultaneously. There was large variance in the portrayal of each and every group that invariably included (usually isolated depictions of) ridiculously heinous practices. Which simply didn't jive with the routine portrayal of the groups and other established characters. Some things weren't a real question - burnout and corruption among mages was obviously high, and the loose organizations, many of which were simple self-proclaimed labels, housed many secrets and rogue elements.
If you wanted to be formal about it, you'd go through the books with a highlighter and take these outliers and write 'Technocracy as villains' or 'Traditions as villains' in the margin. Because if you ran with a game where the worst in print was true for each group, you either were a monster, shared office space with fiends in a way that defied feasibility, or looked all around you and realized how utterly screwed you were and curled up in your basement and cried. That was pretty unheard of, though. Most people took a stance similar to RandomCasualty, while a few others used these mentions to paint the opponents or simply factions they didn't like. Players of other games - Hunter in particular - would site these as reasons to kill every mage that they saw*, sometimes in wonderful cross-forum flamefests.
Now, some people would say that's because the game is meant to be grey and it allows each given take or theme to be supported. And that's largely how it played out. But realistically? It's because the basic thematics of the game were grey, but different writers had very clear notions of who the heroes and villains in this setting were.
Some of this was a decided shift between versions. But some of the material was retconned, some still applied, and some didn't apply as written but in some moderated unwritten sense. And since things like organizational books were released across versions, there wasn't a clear update for many things. Sometimes you'd just get quotes from the developer - then the developer would change.
In the end, Mages were just people. Some of them consciously knew that their will and beliefs could shape reality, others didn't. A child could wake up and have his toys genuinely come to life, or a scientist could have experiments that shouldn't work function as he believes they could. It was a power that people - usually bright and strongwilled - just awoke to. *Which made some of the 'murder everyone who shows up to the Sight' bit a little disturbing, especially with the heartfelt OOC justifications. And the failings of the organizations - to whatever extent you took them - were largely human failings coupled with the sheer power to remake reality. That and toss in some supernatural forces, but not everyone and their mother was remade in the Cauls.
One thing that is clear and supportable is that mages ran the gamut, some being as close to genuinely good people as anyone in the WoD got. Many books had campaign ideas for and presented characters that were humans who woke up and were thrust into a supernatural world and wanted to survive and live their lives. Individuals could be corrupted and organizations were capable of some sketchy stuff, but none of this was mandated onto the player. And even the organizations somehow contained reasonable folk (For example, one written mage's belief was in preventing the loss of knowledge and updating the old ways so that they could survive in the modern age. Technomage chick with a keyboard with glyphs and the like, if I remember correctly.)
Most people probably didn't even notice much of the stuff I mentioned because they were singular outliers. They didn't impact many games, let alone player characters. You know when you'd really see them? Folk combing through books for a justification to "kill 'em all" whether that 'all' be a particular group or mages as a whole, with that child example above included.
Now, wracking my brain, I would have to say that some of the opponents that Werewolves probably beat them out in reprehensibility. Anyone remember the Fomori ability 'Savage Genitalia'? Just the thing for the player who wants to be able to routinely enact the 'lust' murder from Seven! Though that always failed to be as impactful to me, since they were fairly clearly hideously corrupted monsters and you didn't see people asserting that they were the 'good guys'. I can't really recall or picture a group that had Freak Legion as one of its standard character creation books.
About the factions themselves:
Basic Setting History wrote:Reality is mutable, and paradigms equivalent. That means it is possible to see a world where spiritualistic practices cure modern diseases and accomplishes incredible feats of progress.
However, we didn't see that because of the mages of the mythic age were jackasses. Yeah, their old ways could have been shared with the common man and better their lives. But they didn't. Instead they largely ignored most people and treated them as insignificant. There was a mix, as they were very human and more than a few exceptions abounded, but the mages who taught and helped the everyman were eclipsed by those who trampled them underfoot. The particulars of their beliefs and practices didn't mandate this or provide any excuse - by and large it was pure hubris. (You might say that it's even worse than using antiquated methods that couldn't benefit mankind as modern methods do - they just didn't bother.)
Somewhere along the line, mankind got real tired of being shat upon and a number of mages decided that they couldn't tolerate it. Now, a large portion of this was focused on other supernaturals - being uncaring or egotistical rarely competes with the other beings that slaughtered or fed upon mankind. Long story short, they formed the Order of Reason. They wanted to put a measure of power and control in the hands of normal people and eliminate the horrible things that fed on them from the shadows. Reason and technology were the vehicle by which they would define these elements out of existence and provide a power that even the common (unEnlightened) masses could share in.
Some of the Order of Reason were noble, some of them were jerks, most were a mix of both. They got rid of horrors and provided great benefits to people. They cornered 'deviant' elements and made them reform or die, with the sometimes without the availability of an option. Some of them were merely trying to ride their way to the top as puppetmasters and eliminate competition. And as their success and power progressed, they became the Technocracy. They have a vision for humanity (several, actually, some of which conflict and will later become an increasing issue) and make choices for this best interest.
Meanwhile, the shattered mystics formed the Council of Nine, trying to preserve their Traditions. An ad-hoc clusterfvck, they're an 'organization' in a very loose sense with a number of them simple self-titles and others actual rigid societies. For added fun, some of these Traditions were previously blood enemies. Their goals? Hah, that would assume they have goals. Some of them want to bring back the old ways and live in their days of glory. They are douchebags, and beset by the futility that the mythic age is never coming back.
Others are trying to find a way to keep their way of life alive. Some get angry or cry because unicorns and the like are all dying because of the Technocracy. A few are beset by the problem of how Technocrats bust into monasteries and gun down/brainwash monks who trying to focus on self-enlightenment. Most are struggling to find a purpose and way to survive. This includes folk who want to reform and show people that their ways can indeed be beneficial as well, and others who want to adapt to exist in this brave new world. A number of them realize - real fvcking late - that there's a spark of human potential that's in danger of dying out and maybe they should sort of get on that.
With some increased stifling, the traditions are joined by technomancers who break off of the Technocracy. Some believe in the wonder, creativity, and possibilities that science can provide, weird science style. But the Technocracy won't abide allowing Professor Hubert Farnsworth to exist, no matter how benign any particular individual seems. Others are hackers and information brokers who believe in disseminating truth and large amounts of freedoms to the everyman, making their break after the Technocracy considers backing the Nazis as a means to consolidating power, Star Trek style.
So most cases a person Awakens, finds reality mutable and marvels the wonderment of the depth of things that are possible for about five minutes. After that time, the Technocracy shows up saying, "Not for fvcking long. Now join up and settle down, or we'll reformat your brain or kill you." And the Traditions may be there too, saying, "We're largely irrelevant to the world but can help you explore your potential." Depending on your particular Mentor or the Tradition in question, they'll probably add in something else that varies wildly.
I'd say that's about the basic history. Combine that with the different elements I mentioned above about each group existing on a sliding scale, usually set in the middle. There are a few other things, like actual evil forces out there that no one likes and even the Traditions and Technocracy have briefly worked together to stop from invading our reality.
FrankTrollman wrote:You have a "Humanity" score.
Oddly, despite mages being the most human supernaturals (arguably until the release of Hunter) MtA didn't have a humanity score. There was paradox, quiet, and jhor, and revised brought in formalized resonance scores, but no humanity. Which I always figured to be a step up, because its more honest than presenting a humanity mechanic and pretending that it'll help regulate or represent something when it clearly doesn't.
Modesitt wrote:In Revised, you have to explain the Avatar storm.
You could always say, "Um, the spirit world is sort of closed off now in order to make the game more streamlined and accessable. There a big metaplot thing that's published across like 50 books they sorta used to justify it, which your character couldn't possibly know anyway - just keep in mind the spirit world is closed for business." Though in general I would personally recommend against the inclusion of the metaplot and ramifications thereof.
RandomCasualty wrote:Sure they didn't know the small details, but they got the basics of who the technocracy was, who the traditions were and how things worked.
Well, that's part of the reason its handy to run a player's first game pre-Awakening, because their character doesn't start with all this knowledge but instead picks it up through play. 'Course, a chunk of my players had taken philosophy classes or done some reading along those lines, so I don't doubt that may have aided in the communication.