So how come no comments on the new Magic Missile?

[sake]

In Neverwinter Nights, MM was acceptable. But the real shiznit was the "It's like MM but better". Probably level 4 or something, so as to not fight for space with Fireball. Seriously, it was autohit, multiple target Force damage, with the kind of damage that you expect of single-target "Save for half" spells.

'Isaac's Lesser Missile Storm'. Gamewinner. Came in a 'Greater' version too, but that was a level 7 spell or something so competition for slots was harsher.

Greater IMS was lv 6. They 'nerfed' it in NWN2 by making it hit multiple targets which just made it even more useful since party friendly spells were all but required thanks to the shitty party AI. NWN2 also had the truly awesome version of the Flame Arrow spell which was sort of a super lv 4 version of scorching burst with uncapped damage. At high levels, you could one-shot most monsters with it.

I rarely used MM in BG, I perfered Melf's Minute Meteors. They let me save most of my spells for the big stuff without resorting to a crossbow like a gimp archer.

I swear Bioware's custom spells were just plain awesome compared to the actual stuff.

[Adalon]

In BGII, you could find or buy one of the items that reduced casting speed and reduce it from 1 to 0, at which point it no longer triggered the one spell per round limiter.

So you could cast all you magic missiles in one second via pause/cast/unpause for short second/pause.

Alternatively, you could just wait until an enemy caster started casting, and instantly magic missile interrupt.

Also, it did hit separately as as attacks that all auto hit, so each missile took away a stoneskin or mirror image.

[TheFlatline]

Was Magic Missile ever worth the space it took to write it in? I imagine that with the low hit point inflation in 2nd Edition it'd be useful for the first 9 or so levels when you would need something to take out an enemy at long range when weapons wouldn't do.

In 2nd edition it was a great 1st level spell.

In 3rd edition it was probably the cheapest option for an offensive spell wand at I think 250 gold. It was even relatively cheap to buy a 2-3 MM casting wand.

50 charges that will almost always hit gives you something to do even when you're tapped out of spells. At low levels, a lot of my mage players would pick up a wand of magic missiles. When you're higher levels and throwing 3 or 5 magic missiles per cast, they are economic for low level grunt crowd control.

Then again, my groups were weird. One of the first purchases they'd make was a wand of cure minor wounds, since it was a flat 50 hit points that could heal (over time) for like 100 gold or whatever a cantrip wand cost. 50 hit points doesn't sound like much, but when you're looking at a cure light potion which does a D8+1 for 50 gold, it's pretty f*cking economical and is a lot of healing levels 1-3.

[erik]

cantrip wands are only half the price of level 1 wands (375 gp)... making a cure minor wand a horrible purchase compared to a cure light wand.

CLW wands are twice the price (750 gp) for two to nine times the healing (average 5 times more effective). A much better bargain.


I think the good thing about MM wands was the medium range (level 9 caster gets you 190' range), definitely not damage/cost efficiency. Screw getting a crossbow as your backup for when you run out of spells. Use a wand you can plink away with from a distance.

You hopefully don't have to use it that often, so a level 9 MM wand could sustain you through most of your adventuring career, though I might be tempted to switch over to the the more expensive but great long range wand alternative, fireball (800' range with level 10 wand, woot!).

[Maxus]

Someone pointed out Magic Missile can be used to pressure other casters, with a readied action.

Since it -does- always hit, it can force some concentration checks and all./

[RobbyPants]

In 3rd edition it was probably the cheapest option for an offensive spell wand at I think 250 gold. It was even relatively cheap to buy a 2-3 MM casting wand.

Unless I'm missing something, a CL 1 wand of Magic Missile should cost 750 gp (15 per charge). Getting that up to CL 9 would cost 6,750 gp (135 gp per charge). I guess at the time you can afford that, 5d4+5 damage that always hits isn't bad.

Someone pointed out Magic Missile can be used to pressure other casters, with a readied action.

Since it -does- always hit, it can force some concentration checks and all./

How does this work for Concentration checks if you use five missiles? Do they each count as a separate check for each missile's damage, or do you roll one with a DC adding the combined damage?

It seems to me they'd hit separately, triggering five trivially easy Concentration DCs.

[Roy]

Even if it does stack, 10 + spell level + 10-25. Well at level 9 that's not too bad. but at level 9 the sticker price on a wand of MM, CL 9 is about 20% of your TOTAL wealth. By the time it's more reasonable the DC of 20-35 + spell level isn't so hard to hit, and you probably have better things to do if you want to disrupt enemy actions anyways.

It is however absolutely and entirely superior to actual counterspelling as a means to counter spells. Which is a testament to the weakness of counterspelling.

Note that if it's for each missile, it's just 5 checks at DC 12-15 + spell level... Since they have 12 ranks and a Con of 16, at the minimum they basically auto pass them all at the lowest level it is relevant at.

[RobbyPants]

Note that if it's for each missile, it's just 5 checks at DC 12-15 + spell level... Since they have 12 ranks and a Con of 16, at the minimum they basically auto pass them all at the lowest level it is relevant at.

That's what I figured would be the case if it applied five separate times.

[JongWK]

Was Magic Missile ever worth the space it took to write it in? I imagine that with the low hit point inflation in 2nd Edition it'd be useful for the first 9 or so levels when you would need something to take out an enemy at long range when weapons wouldn't do.

It was useful. Wizards didn't have that many damage options in the lower levels. IIRC, there was a higher level version in Forgotten Realms (same concept, but more damage).

[RandomCasualty2]

Even if it does stack, 10 + spell level + 10-25. Well at level 9 that's not too bad. but at level 9 the sticker price on a wand of MM, CL 9 is about 20% of your TOTAL wealth. By the time it's more reasonable the DC of 20-35 + spell level isn't so hard to hit, and you probably have better things to do if you want to disrupt enemy actions anyways.

It is however absolutely and entirely superior to actual counterspelling as a means to counter spells. Which is a testament to the weakness of counterspelling.

Well it's more a testament to why you should never base a save DC (or really any d20 DC) off of a damage roll, because the two are completely incompatible concepts.

[Roy]

Even if it does stack, 10 + spell level + 10-25. Well at level 9 that's not too bad. but at level 9 the sticker price on a wand of MM, CL 9 is about 20% of your TOTAL wealth. By the time it's more reasonable the DC of 20-35 + spell level isn't so hard to hit, and you probably have better things to do if you want to disrupt enemy actions anyways.

It is however absolutely and entirely superior to actual counterspelling as a means to counter spells. Which is a testament to the weakness of counterspelling.

Well it's more a testament to why you should never base a save DC (or really any d20 DC) off of a damage roll, because the two are completely incompatible concepts.

Well in this case it ends up being easy to pass anyways. But yeah. For anything else though you just cast defensively or five foot step.