Do we come here because every other forum is a wasteland?

Dean · Post by **Dean** » Sat Jul 31, 2010 4:40 pm

So last night I made a brief foray into some other D&D forums out of nothing but boredom and was literally horrified at the endemic stupidity. I've been here for so long I think I had forgotten what other forums were like. So I ask: Is this normal? Is the reason that we are all here day after day because every other goddamn forum on the topic is filled with mouth-breathing plebians!? Pardon me for what seems like nationalism but for god sakes on RPG.net there was a many page topic about some guys rules for being able to called-shot attack and hack off enemy limbs.

In D&D....

A called shot dismemberment system in D&D, which uses an abstracted HP system for health.....

IS IT 1998!? I mean jesus christ I think it's been an established fact that called shot systems don't work in abstract HP systems for, what, A DECADE? And they are PRAISING it. In this guys system you can seriously hack off somebody's limb by dealing 1/4th of their overall hp to that limb, the damage of which is also applied to the person (so why not do it all the time?).

So lets say you choose leg, you attack the leg, it gets +2 AC cause it's smaller (woo) and if you can deal 1/4th of the creatures health then it can now only crawl and is thusly archer bait. AND THEY ARE PRAISING IT AS INVENTIVE.

Are we some sort of different species? That can think rationally about the rules we are considering and test them mentally against the overall mechanics of the game? Are we so different? Is there hope?

So many questions that need answers.

TOZ · Post by **TOZ** » Sat Jul 31, 2010 4:54 pm

Do we come here because every other forum is a wasteland?

I come here to get a different view on things. Not because I think I'm better than everyone else.

Juton · Post by **Juton** » Sat Jul 31, 2010 4:58 pm

The Den, like the 339 before it, tries to enforce a minimum level of intelligence among its posters using disparagement, refutation and outright verbal abuse. There are other smart poster on the other boards, but because mods get angry when you call someone a dumb fucker the signal-to-noise ratio is lower at other boards.

I find each board has its own purpose though. The Den is the best board for metagame observation and critique. I like Brilliant Gameologists for regular build optimization. GitP has the most lively play by post I've found.

Maxus · Post by **Maxus** » Sat Jul 31, 2010 5:13 pm

I come here because of the discussion, true. And because I like the moderating style.

No, seriously. All the other boards I've seen, the mods have pet peeves or get pissy about things. Or play favorites. Or go bat-shit insane.

And FBMF, while he may get drunk, isn't crazy. And he's so unobtrusive that I'd linked people to discussions here for months before they realized that this place isn't owned/run by Frank or someone else with a high post count.

Antumbra · Post by **Antumbra** » Sat Jul 31, 2010 5:25 pm

/tg/ is basically noise, trolls and noisy trolls - but there's so much of it that there's an interesting thread or two every day.

NineInchNall · Post by **NineInchNall** » Sat Jul 31, 2010 5:28 pm

In short ... Yes. If you want to have intelligent commentary on system analysis, then you come here. If you want builds ... Not here. Most of us have done so much char building that we're burnt the fuck out. Witness Lago's melee build request thread.

Other forums therefore have their uses.

FatR · Post by **FatR** » Sat Jul 31, 2010 5:49 pm

To be honest, I come here because the local majority hates mostly the same things (in rpgs) I hate, and is allowed to declare this hatred openly. Well, and to went my own hatred, of course. Sort of a guilty pleasure. Brilliant Gameologists is the forum to go for character optimization, GitP for general DnD discussion and Rpg.net once was the best for cool fluff ideas, but seems to be on the decline lately.

Count Arioch the 28th · Sat Jul 31, 2010 6:25 pm

What is 339? I keep hearing people mention it here and on BG.

Awkward Map · Post by **Awkward Map** » Sat Jul 31, 2010 6:50 pm

It was the board ID of the old Wizards of the Coast D&D character optimization board. I guess saying 'three-three-nine' saves typing.

For Valor · Post by **For Valor** » Sat Jul 31, 2010 6:56 pm

yeah, I've seen 339 come up more than once here. Are there 339 D&D forums other than the Den?

ubernoob · Post by **ubernoob** » Sat Jul 31, 2010 7:09 pm

NineInchNall wrote:In short ... Yes. If you want to have intelligent commentary on system analysis, then you come here. If you want builds ... Not here. Most of us have done so much char building that we're burnt the fuck out. Witness Lago's melee build request thread.

Other forums therefore have their uses.

This is totally true. I would much rather write a class/PrC/feat from scratch in ten minutes to make the character I want than actually try to remember all the bullshit loops you had to get through to build a character in 3.X. Except wizards. I love me some grappling wizards.

Stahlseele · Post by **Stahlseele** » Sat Jul 31, 2010 7:34 pm

'cause i like me some snark and franks postings. Which is basically more or less the same i guess . . but eh ^^

Lago PARANOIA · Post by **Lago PARANOIA** » Sat Jul 31, 2010 9:02 pm

One thing that does get on my nerves about The Gaming Den is how we have so many motherfucking posts where we fellate each other (even the women, don't ask) over how cool and awesome and elite our boards are.

Settle down, doods.

Roy · Post by **Roy** » Sat Jul 31, 2010 9:05 pm

deanruel87 wrote:So last night I made a brief foray into some other D&D forums out of nothing but boredom and was literally horrified at the endemic stupidity. I've been here for so long I think I had forgotten what other forums were like. So I ask: Is this normal? Is the reason that we are all here day after day because every other goddamn forum on the topic is filled with mouth-breathing plebians!? Pardon me for what seems like nationalism but for god sakes on RPG.net there was a many page topic about some guys rules for being able to called-shot attack and hack off enemy limbs.

In D&D....

A called shot dismemberment system in D&D, which uses an abstracted HP system for health.....

IS IT 1998!? I mean jesus christ I think it's been an established fact that called shot systems don't work in abstract HP systems for, what, A DECADE? And they are PRAISING it. In this guys system you can seriously hack off somebody's limb by dealing 1/4th of their overall hp to that limb, the damage of which is also applied to the person (so why not do it all the time?).

So lets say you choose leg, you attack the leg, it gets +2 AC cause it's smaller (woo) and if you can deal 1/4th of the creatures health then it can now only crawl and is thusly archer bait. AND THEY ARE PRAISING IT AS INVENTIVE.

Are we some sort of different species? That can think rationally about the rules we are considering and test them mentally against the overall mechanics of the game? Are we so different? Is there hope?

So many questions that need answers.

Yes, this is a large part of it. Many forums and communities can nicely be described as 'outdated' as best. The hick towns of gaming as it were. Except with less booze and shotguns.

Here are some examples (trying to keep this from being a fail thread):

Any 4rry. Just. Any. 4rry. As any discussion about 4th edition that does not involve liberal use of fire will invariably involve much backwards thinking, and mouth breathing bullshit.

Pathfinder is not QUITE this bad (mostly because a few of em actually can be reasoned with to GTFO of Pathfinder) but is close to it. As such any discussion about it is either going to be people flaming it as the Fail it is, or lots of herp derp.

And somewhat more specific examples:

On another forum, there is a guy repeatedly insisting not only that Evocation spells are valid uses of actions, but that the Reserve Feats that are like Evocations, but even weaker also are because 'you have plenty of staying power to keep doing your little 4d6 round after round'. And that these are comparable options to fucking GLITTERDUST.

Apparently non casters are 'just fine' and if they're randomly dying in one round, it's their fault for having Con 10 or lower, low AC (note: all AC is low) or the DM's fault for specifically gunning for them. Also, they totally don't need more WBL to do their job, because his Monk can do FOURTY DAMAGE ON A CRITICAL!!!!!!111111111111111

Apparently DDO requires more min maxing than PnP. Lol, wut?

Golems are immune to magic.

Red_Rob · Post by **Red_Rob** » Sat Jul 31, 2010 9:37 pm

Personally, I visit this forum because the mindset it cultivates is one of constant critical assessment. There is very little blind adherence to things because they are "official" and everything is judged on its own merits.

Other forums often have many posters who are not particularly interested in the mechanics side of RPG's. Because of the this, they look at the game through a very different lens to someone who is looking at the interaction of the bare numbers. This gives rise to the endless "Monks are good because I played a monk and had fun" and Oberoni filled posts.

Here people don't take criticism of games personally. They look at the subsystems that make up the game, how they interact, and what behaviours this causes in play to see whether this is desirable, and from that make a judgement. Its refreshing to see people accepting their favourite games faults and looking for ways to fix them, rather than pretending that denying them loudly enough will make them go away.

I find the ability of some posters here to look at a game and almost instantly work out how the different systems will interact well enough to spot flaws in the math a little intimidating.

Oh, and all the swearing and ranting is funny too

MfA · Post by **MfA** » Sat Jul 31, 2010 9:58 pm

I come here every so often in the hope of seeing TNE work restarted

(As long as it's build around CAN and not WoF.)

Also regardless of how arrogant the mods are and how much of a cult of personality there is around some people at least threads don't get easily locked here simply because the mod got sick of the discussion and wants to have the last word (this is basically what happens on Paizo every time someone official enters the discussion) nor do you easily get banned.

Psychic Robot · Post by **Psychic Robot** » Sat Jul 31, 2010 10:19 pm

Do we come here because every other forum is a wasteland?

No. We come here to open our minds.

Josh_Kablack · Post by **Josh_Kablack** » Sat Jul 31, 2010 11:25 pm

Just for the record: you're all a bunch of raging egomanical assholes.

But there are like a half a dozen projects, games and threads around - any one of which by itself justifies wading through hundred page flame wars to find.

CatharzGodfoot · Post by **CatharzGodfoot** » Sun Aug 01, 2010 12:05 am

Lago PARANOIA wrote:One thing that does get on my nerves about The Gaming Den is how we have so many motherfucking posts where we fellate each other (even the women, don't ask) over how cool and awesome and elite our boards are.

Settle down, doods.

B-b-b-but lago, without groupthink what kind of think do we have?

RobbyPants · Post by **RobbyPants** » Sun Aug 01, 2010 12:18 am

For Valor wrote:yeah, I've seen 339 come up more than once here. Are there 339 D&D forums other than the Den?

When Autumn (Meg) was fired from WotC back in 2008, a lot of the 339 group migrated to Brilliantgameologists (run in part by Meg). Although, in the past two-and-a-half years, the atmosphere there has changed considerably, and a lot of the original 339 posters have left.

For Valor · Post by **For Valor** » Sun Aug 01, 2010 1:37 am

Doesn't understand:

a) Meg. (Who was cryeth?)

b) 339 means people?

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Sun Aug 01, 2010 1:53 am

Meg was WizO Autumn. She was the WizO in charge of coming up with inane scout jamborees for people on the 3.5 Character Optimization board. She massaged peoples' egos there by moderating in favor of the insular groupthink of that board.

When WotC went to 4e, she was canned. Her years of producing 3.5 min/max groupthink were no longer in demand as the new regime wanted 4e groupthink up and running and her "virtual cupcakes for people who support the regime" and "tacit approval of lone wolves who lambaste enemies of the status quo" simply wasn't producing a 4e-friendly environment fast enough.

And a lot of the WotC loyalists felt really betrayed, because they'd been circle singing and wagon circling for 3.5 for five years, and their whole board was simply uprooted an cast to the wind. And a couple hundred of them stalked off to make their own board and show the people at WotC something or other.

I haven't read their board in some time. How did that work out? Good?

-Username17

Meikle641 · Post by **Meikle641** » Sun Aug 01, 2010 1:59 am

deanruel87 wrote: Pardon me for what seems like nationalism but for god sakes on RPG.net there was a many page topic about some guys rules for being able to called-shot attack and hack off enemy limbs.

In D&D....

A called shot dismemberment system in D&D, which uses an abstracted HP system for health.....

Actually there was an optional rule in the DMG for called shots, but they were basically bullshit penalties. IIRC, the worst was a speed decrease 'cause you hamstringed some dude.

Doom · Post by **Doom** » Sun Aug 01, 2010 2:05 am

The high point of these boards is when someone not-so-bright comes in and posts, and gets face-stabbed repeatedly.

It's an effect similar to when a student manages to fall up through the cracks, and eventually ends up in a class way above his skill set. He opens his mouth, and hilarity ensues....

For Valor · Post by **For Valor** » Sun Aug 01, 2010 3:26 am

agreed. Uber and Kaelik drive people away pretty well...

The Gaming Den

Do we come here because every other forum is a wasteland?

Do we come here because every other forum is a wasteland?

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Re: Do we come here because every other forum is a wasteland