A logical reason for wizard towers

[Vebyast]

Why not combine the above idea with the idea from Vebyast's latest post. There's a special type of permenacy that you can use on mage's private sanctum. It gives the sanctum unlimited spell use with a very small area, so long as the mage is there ALONE (excluding summoned and called creatures--this way adventurers can break in and all the wizard's buffs will drop, but he'll have 100% of his spells).

THEN, this special version of the sanctum has a 5% chance of dispelling itself every round for each [weight here] of solid matter within [range here] (this decides how tall the towers need to be, minimally). That's ASF... on steroids... which is perfect for a spellcasting on steroids.

I like this idea. Casters with towers can chainbind, research, scry, etcetera with hugely increased efficiency and efficacy, but the PCs can still invade as normal without being instantly raepd. It explains why casters in their towers always have all of their spells left for the day, and why their only defenses are summoned monsters and constructs. Seems like a good solution to me.

[For Valor]

where would this go, anyway? D-con 2?

Aktariel! Surgo! Frank! We need placement help!!

[Blasted]

I like this idea. Casters with towers can chainbind, research, scry, etcetera with hugely increased efficiency and efficacy, but the PCs can still invade as normal without being instantly raepd. It explains why casters in their towers always have all of their spells left for the day, and why their only defenses are summoned monsters and constructs. Seems like a good solution to me.

This still doesn't address "why put it in a tower".
If you can do it underground, it's almost always better underground.

[Prak]

there literally has to be some reason why a giant tower is advantageous. Maybe it's a wondrous structure that acts as a giant antenna for the magical radiation field of D&D world, and you get like... 25 craft xp/10 ft. of height/month or something. Your tower actually traps mystic energy in a sphere for you to use to craft magic items and shit. And it doesn't function underground because 40' of dirt is enough to block the radiation.

[norms29]

I like this idea. Casters with towers can chainbind, research, scry, etcetera with hugely increased efficiency and efficacy, but the PCs can still invade as normal without being instantly raepd. It explains why casters in their towers always have all of their spells left for the day, and why their only defenses are summoned monsters and constructs. Seems like a good solution to me.

This still doesn't address "why put it in a tower".
If you can do it underground, it's almost always better underground.

that was answered by this

THEN, this special version of the sanctum has a 5% chance of dispelling itself every round for each [weight here] of solid matter within [range here] (this decides how tall the towers need to be, minimally). That's ASF... on steroids... which is perfect for a spellcasting on steroids

which was right above the part you quoted

[Blasted]

THEN, this special version of the sanctum has a 5% chance of dispelling itself every round for each [weight here] of solid matter within [range here] (this decides how tall the towers need to be, minimally). That's ASF... on steroids... which is perfect for a spellcasting on steroids

which was right above the part you quoted

The best place to cast would be a 100' spherical room, deep underground.

Unless you're going for very, very large values of [range here], I still think that it's easier to build a room underground. Especially as in an underground chamber you'll get even less matter (because the solid matter of the tower itself wont be there.)
If you put up the range high enough to make building an underground room unsuitable, you've just ended up with a radio mast again.

[Vebyast]

Unless you're going for very, very large values of [range here], I still think that it's easier to build a room underground. Especially as in an underground chamber you'll get even less matter (because the solid matter of the tower itself wont be there.)
If you put up the range high enough to make building an underground room unsuitable, you've just ended up with a radio mast again.

First, there are a few disadvantages to building your sanctum underground. Mainly, if you're protected from other people's longer-than-long spells, they're also protected from yours. This means that some of the largest benefits of the tower (infinite scrying, effectively free high-level travel spells, scry-and-die with a constant stream of summoned creatures) aren't usable.

Second, building your tower aboveground is no more vulnerable than building it belowground. Mage's Private Sanctum prevents people from scrying on you (so no scry-and-die). Also, you can use your free casting to cast as many Dimensional Locks and so on as you want. As a bonus, these don't block your own travels out (if they do, you can take them down and recast them at your leisure), so being aboveground is in fact way better than being belowground.

Third, remember that you need to be clear of stuff around you on all sides. Even inside a cave you still need to be suspended up in the air, which requires a tower or a huge stalactite or giant cables or something. That's just as cinematic as a tower, so I consider that viable. It's not towers, but it's still awesome and wizardly.

Fourth, these aren't going to be radio masts. You need to be able to support a small building on top of your tower. Even if you go with the guyed mast idea, it'll look more like The Space Needle or The CN Tower than a radio mast. Now realize that the tower needs to be sturdy enough to to summon big earth elementals. Not a radio mast at all.

[For Valor]

Vebyast has a solid point against you here.

Then again, we don't know how strong adamantine is.

[Prak]

there literally has to be some reason why a giant tower is advantageous. Maybe it's a wondrous structure that acts as a giant antenna for the magical radiation field of D&D world, and you get like... 25 craft xp/10 ft. of height/month or something. Your tower actually traps mystic energy in a sphere for you to use to craft magic items and shit. And it doesn't function underground because 40' of dirt is enough to block the radiation.

this seems to have completely slipped notice, so lets try that again:

Maybe it's a wondrous structure that acts as a giant antenna for the magical radiation field of D&D world, and you get like... 25 craft xp/10 ft. of height/month or something. Your tower actually traps mystic energy in a sphere for you to use to craft magic items and shit. And it doesn't function underground because 40' of dirt is enough to block the radiation.

[Blasted]

First, there are a few disadvantages to building your sanctum underground. Mainly, if you're protected from other people's longer-than-long spells, they're also protected from yours. This means that some of the largest benefits of the tower (infinite scrying, effectively free high-level travel spells, scry-and-die with a constant stream of summoned creatures) aren't usable.

Are we still taking the 'teleport repeater' function of the original post or not?
If not, then this is true.

Second, building your tower aboveground is no more vulnerable than building it belowground. Mage's Private Sanctum prevents people from scrying on you (so no scry-and-die). Also, you can use your free casting to cast as many Dimensional Locks and so on as you want. As a bonus, these don't block your own travels out (if they do, you can take them down and recast them at your leisure), so being aboveground is in fact way better than being belowground.

I think that it's significantly more vulnerable. Especially if the wizard is not "home".
For reasons already outlined.

Third, remember that you need to be clear of stuff around you on all sides. Even inside a cave you still need to be suspended up in the air, which requires a tower or a huge stalactite or giant cables or something. That's just as cinematic as a tower, so I consider that viable. It's not towers, but it's still awesome and wizardly.

I've made the assumption that the tower has some substance (ie. is a couple of metres thick or so) and the platform can be suspended by ropes. This could be worked around by a large enough "weight" value.

Fourth, these aren't going to be radio masts. You need to be able to support a small building on top of your tower. Now realize that the tower needs to be sturdy enough to to summon big earth elementals. Not a radio mast at all.

I was assuming some magical building material, so that you can have the "range" value high enough to discourage building underground, while not having to put up with the problems of mundane materials.

As I posted earlier in this thread, I think that better magical defenses would be more likely to encourage tower building. While infinite spells may be a part of this, I think that better defensive spells would be more useful.

[Blasted]

this seems to have completely slipped notice, so lets try that again:

Maybe it's a wondrous structure that acts as a giant antenna for the magical radiation field of D&D world, and you get like... 25 craft xp/10 ft. of height/month or something. Your tower actually traps mystic energy in a sphere for you to use to craft magic items and shit. And it doesn't function underground because 40' of dirt is enough to block the radiation.

Sorry, I quite like that one. Would undersea casters get the same bonus? What about casters on clouds/floating rocks?

[For Valor]

why would you put teleport repeaters around your own home? If anyone can link into them, it ruins the whole purpose of underground defense. So no, that's not an argument.

In caves: A giant room suspended by ridiculously thick adamantine cables? FUCKING AWESOME!!! No problem here.

1000 ft. We need some weight now. I need to weigh the earth..

Concerning the XP thing... it'd be great if XP costs weren't pitched. They suck, and making a system that encourages them sucks.

[Blasted]

why would you put teleport repeaters around your own home? If anyone can link into them, it ruins the whole purpose of underground defense. So no, that's not an argument.

See ice9's post on page 1.

In caves: A giant room suspended by ridiculously thick adamantine cables? FUCKING AWESOME!!! No problem here.

Except that it's not a tower. And I want phallic symbols. You're not a wizard if you can't point to a 100' penis and say "That's mine."

[Prak]

this seems to have completely slipped notice, so lets try that again:

Maybe it's a wondrous structure that acts as a giant antenna for the magical radiation field of D&D world, and you get like... 25 craft xp/10 ft. of height/month or something. Your tower actually traps mystic energy in a sphere for you to use to craft magic items and shit. And it doesn't function underground because 40' of dirt is enough to block the radiation.

Sorry, I quite like that one. Would undersea casters get the same bonus? What about casters on clouds/floating rocks?

I would say that Underwater towers get half the benefit, due to water being thicker than air and less penetrable to the magic waves, but their reception is their length, rather than height, and a structure on a castle/floating rock gets like 30-40% less or something, because it's shielded in one direction.

so basically it's tower>floating castle>underwater tower, and underground is just kind of shitty if you're an item crafter.

[For Valor]

Alright, here's an idea:

1) The sanctum idea still holds, but not with the fail chance.

2) The volume of the sanctum must be at least 30,000 cubic feat (that's a 20r, 1500h cylinder) and closed off with rock or metal. Depending on what shape you make it, you get different abilities.

Cylinder: Has a radius (equal to the height of the cylinder) which creates a field of detection. This works like Blindsight--if the caster is in the tower, he knows exactly what an intruder looks like before they set foot in the tower.
Also, the tower and everything in the radius cannot be scryed on.

Sphere: Has a radius (equal to the diameter of the sphere) which gives off a single passive spell effect which affects everything in the area. Thus, you could make every living creature in a 9,500 foot radius have to save against baleful polymorph every round, or take 22d6 damage from disintegrate, or constantly surround your sphere with the noxious fumes of cloudkill. This aura aslo works as an antimagic field for all effects except the single one chosen by the caster.
Oh, the sphere and everything in the radius is protected from scrying.

A prism of some kind: This goes for the stuff with right angles on it... I don't know the proper word to describe it, but it's anything that's got straight walls and a solid ceiling--anything aristotalean in construction, I guess. Anyways...
Time passes ridiculously QUICKLY (thanks, Prak) here. An hour spent inside is the equivalent of 10 minutes outside... that's six times faster in case you didn't get the math. So if you spent an entire "day" in there, you'd emerge 4 hours later. Which is awesome, because you could leave in the late afternoon and pop out just in time for dinner.
Oh, also, there's a radius of (volume of the building)/2 that surrounds the place. You can't scry on the building, or anything within the radius.

Anything with a dome: For clerics and stuff... seriously, think about the possibility that the oldest temples and sanctuaries originated as sanctums for clerics and high priests.
There's a radius of (volume of the building)/30 that surrounds the place. You can't scry on the building, or anything within the radius. (just like the entry just before this one... but smaller).
The benefit here is that you can, after the special sanctum is made permenant, walk around in the radius and still enjoy the benefits of the special sanctum. The spells you cast in this sanctum are maximized, too... so have fun. Also, people can enter your sanctum, provided you give them permission. If you don't, the sanctum loses its powers until you kick them out, just like any normal one.


That's a rough draft. But how does it look? Blasted gets his stone penises, and there are different options too.

[Prak]

Time passes ridiculously slowly here. An hour spent inside is the equivalent of 10 minutes outside... that's six times faster in case you didn't get the math. So if you spent an entire "day" in there, you'd emerge 4 hours later.

I think you meant time passes ridiculously fast, here.

[For Valor]

I think you meant time passes ridiculously fast, here.

It was... I mean... shut up.

>.>
<.<

[Blasted]

Alright, here's an idea:
...
That's a rough draft. But how does it look?

It's alright.
If you age at the increased speed, I think a lot of non-monster casters would avoid the prism. You could probably integrate the 3 wizard types into one (probably using a pyramid or cone as a compromise volume).

I think I prefer Prak's magical antenna, though. Changing the effects as you see fit.

[Prak]

different schools of magic can use them for different functions, too, I can't think of much here, except necromancers getting a control pool boost, evokers getting a damage dice boost, and a general caster level boost...

[For Valor]

Alright, here's an idea:
...
That's a rough draft. But how does it look?

It's alright.
If you age at the increased speed, I think a lot of non-monster casters would avoid the prism. You could probably integrate the 3 wizard types into one (probably using a pyramid or cone as a compromise volume).

I think I prefer Prak's magical antenna, though. Changing the effects as you see fit.

Aging at an increased speed would be kind of like the inverse of traveling to Limbo (where you don't age, but it'll catch up to you after you come back to the PM or whatever). In this case, you'd age quickly in the room, and then when you leave the area you'd "age backwards".

are we talking about prak's magical antannae of XP-for-items?

[Blasted]

are we talking about prak's magical antannae of XP-for-items?

the mechanics, yes. It's simple and fulfills most requirements. But vary the effects as you see fit.

[Avoraciopoctules]

If I wanted to make "wizard towers" a specific part of my game and wanted justification for them, the first thing I'd turn to for inspiration would be Age of Wonders, a fantasy genre turn-based strategy game series where each faction has a demigod-like mage as its leader.

Towers amplified the magical range and domain of the mage inside and allowed him/her/it to sling around strategic-scale spells and effects anywhere they had dominion. As they were built up, the towers could also support an increasing range of magical architecture that had a myriad of effects. A teleportation network like what was discussed earlier was one of the high-end possibilities.

I'll copy a write-up from a fansite:

City Structures - Wizard's Towers and Magical Structures
Magical structures are also made available after the construction of a Wizard's Tower in your town or city. Wizard's Towers themselves are magical structures which increases the magical domain radius of the wizard present in the town or city.

With each upgrade of the Wizard's Tower, you will be able to construct more magical structures which may enhance magical abilities of your wizard or confer more effective magical defenses to the city. Just like the non-magical structures, you need to build Wizard's Tower I, before you can go on to build a Wizard's Tower II.

Wizard's Tower I
Cost: 500
Bonus: Magical domain radius +15 hexes
Allows the construction of:

- - Library
Cost: 200
Bonus: +10 Research
Produces: -
Special function: -

- - Hall of Enchantment
Cost: 220
Bonus: -
Produces: -
Special function: Sphere-dependent enchantment is cast on garrisoned units.

- - Tower Guard
Cost: 100
Bonus: -
Produces: -
Special function: shoots magic bolts from tower at attackers.

Wizard's Tower II
Cost: 250
Bonus: Magical domain radius +5 hexes
Allows the construction of:

- - Farcaster
Cost: 150
Bonus: +5 hexes to Domain radius around tower.
Produces: -
Special function: -

- - Casting Chamber
Cost: 200
Bonus: +10 Wizard's Casting Skill when Wizard is present in the tower.
Produces: -
Special function: -

- - Enchanted Walls
Cost: 200
Bonus: -
Produces: -
Special function: Sphere-dependent defense for a town under siege.

Wizard's Tower III
Cost: 250
Bonus: Magical domain radius +5 hexes
Allows the construction of:

- - Forcefield
Cost: 200
Bonus: -
Produces: -
Special function: Protects Town from all overland spells.

- - Teleportation Gate
Cost: 300
Bonus: -
Produces: -
Special function: Teleports units to your other Wizard Towers.

So, remote casting/ritual boost, enhanced crafting and magical research, buffs for your mooks, various defenses against adventurers and conventional attack forces, boosts to your own magical ability and possibly level while inside, shielding from people lobbing long ranged magic into yo hizzouse from outside, and the potential for linked portal networks.

I see some possibilities here, but also the potential for mages to overshoot Fighting Mans in problem-solving capabilities.

[Prak]

Avor, fix your quote tag.

[Avoraciopoctules]

Seems fixed now. Sorry about the delay, I noticed the problem exactly at the end of my shift and then needed to head home.

[For Valor]

+5 hexes?