Do we come here because every other forum is a wasteland?

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Wed Aug 04, 2010 4:27 am

ah, of course. what's that quote from some senator or whatever? I may not know pornography but I know obscenity?

Lago PARANOIA · Post by **Lago PARANOIA** » Wed Aug 04, 2010 4:36 am

Remember when you guys drove away Cielingcat?

Good times.

I'm never showing anyone this board again. That was easily this board's most shameful moment, on-par with the Arturick shit.

Count Arioch the 28th · Wed Aug 04, 2010 4:41 am

Lago PARANOIA wrote:Remember when you guys drove away Cielingcat?

Good times.

I'm never showing anyone this board again. That was easily this board's most shameful moment, on-par with the Arturick shit.

I agree with that statement. What certain people said to her was uncalled for. I don't remember Arturick even being on this forum though, so I'm not sure what that refers to.

CatharzGodfoot · Post by **CatharzGodfoot** » Wed Aug 04, 2010 4:45 am

Prak_Anima wrote:ah, of course. what's that quote from some senator or whatever? I may not know pornography but I know obscenity?

Quotes about pornography always remind me of Gloria Steinem:

Gloria Steinem wrote:“Pornography is the instruction. Rape is the practice, battered women are the practice, and battered children are the practice.”

Which is dumb, but she has one really good one:

Gloria Steinem wrote:“The truth will set you free. But first, it will piss you off.”

Who I was really thinking of was Potter Stuart, who said "I know it when I see it".

Potter Stewart wrote: I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced within that shorthand description; and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so. But I know it when I see it, and the motion picture involved in this case is not that.

The reason I can remember either of their names at all is Robert Anton Wilson, who unfortunately failed to popularize the phrases "Potter Stewarting" and "Steinem job" despite a valiant effort.

I don't know the porn vs. obscenity quote, though.

Lago PARANOIA wrote:Remember when you guys drove away Cielingcat?

Good times.

I'm never showing anyone this board again. That was easily this board's most shameful moment, on-par with the Arturick shit.

It's really unfortunate that she came here looking for support. I mean, this board may be accepting of all kinds of people (except dumb ones), but it's got enough jerks, honest to goodness trolls--and most importantly unflinching gargantuan egos--to make it an unsafe place for people going through difficult times.

I just hope that as some point she can accept that this is an internet message board with open registration that centers around arguing (first) and gaming (second), and that there is an ignore function for her to use.

Maxus · Post by **Maxus** » Wed Aug 04, 2010 5:15 am

Yeah. That's the reason I have a few people on ignore.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Wed Aug 04, 2010 5:20 am

CatharzGodfoot wrote:Which is dumb, but she has one really good one:
Gloria Steinem wrote:“The truth will set you free. But first, it will piss you off.”

Ok, I like that. That's awesome.

Who I was really thinking of was Potter Stuart, who said "I know it when I see it".

Potter Stewart wrote: I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced within that shorthand description; and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so. But I know it when I see it, and the motion picture involved in this case is not that.

Actually, I think that's the quote I was thinking of.

Lago PARANOIA wrote:Remember when you guys drove away Cielingcat?

Good times.

I'm never showing anyone this board again. That was easily this board's most shameful moment, on-par with the Arturick shit.
It's really unfortunate that she came here looking for support. I mean, this board may be accepting of all kinds of people (except dumb ones), but it's got enough jerks, honest to goodness trolls--and most importantly unflinching gargantuan egos--to make it an unsafe place for people going through difficult times.

I just hope that as some point she can accept that this is an internet message board with open registration that centers around arguing (first) and gaming (second), and that there is an ignore function for her to use.

Yeah, hell, she honestly should have learned a little something when I was looking support on shitty relationship moments. If this place doesn't have the sympathy for something as stupidly mundane as that...

Crissa · Post by **Crissa** » Wed Aug 04, 2010 6:32 am

Zinegata wrote:It's technically a kid's toy company site you know.

They gave Frank a warning for linking to their own site because of boobs.

-Crissa

Psychic Robot · Post by **Psychic Robot** » Wed Aug 04, 2010 6:53 am

Since when did TGD drive CielingCat away? I remember Roy melting down about some bullshit or another, but that's just Roy being Roy.

Zinegata · Post by **Zinegata** » Wed Aug 04, 2010 6:58 am

Kaelik and Frank allegedly drove Ceiling Cat away for pointing out a sex change operation doesn't really make you a girl.

Leress · Post by **Leress** » Wed Aug 04, 2010 7:08 am

Psychic Robot wrote:Since when did TGD drive CielingCat away? I remember Roy melting down about some bullshit or another, but that's just Roy being Roy.

Read this thread

http://tgdmb.com/viewtopic.php?t=51236& ... sc&start=0

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Wed Aug 04, 2010 7:09 am

well, technically it doesn't. I believe the above quote has some bearing here...

Psychic Robot · Post by **Psychic Robot** » Wed Aug 04, 2010 7:12 am

What a vagina.

EDIT: Good Lord, Koumei bitches about me a lot. Especially in threads where I'm not present.

Crissa · Post by **Crissa** » Wed Aug 04, 2010 7:16 am

That's not why, Zinegata. Kaelik, PR, and you were being asshats and disrespectful for no reason.

-Crissa

Psychic Robot · Post by **Psychic Robot** » Wed Aug 04, 2010 7:19 am

How the fuck was I involved in this? I'm pretty sure the only time I bitched at CielingTrap (oh snap) was when it (doublesnap) was screaming about me on other forums in between stalking me on threads here and whining about what a terrible person I am.

CatharzGodfoot · Post by **CatharzGodfoot** » Wed Aug 04, 2010 7:34 am

Psychic Robot wrote:How the fuck was I involved in this? I'm pretty sure the only time I bitched at CielingTrap (oh snap) was when it (doublesnap) was screaming about me on other forums in between stalking me on threads here and whining about what a terrible person I am.

Wow. Just wow.

Zinegata · Post by **Zinegata** » Wed Aug 04, 2010 7:35 am

Crissa likes to blame others because it disguises the fact that she instigated a lot of the "debates" that ended up becoming acceptable sex-terminology discussions. This is why I said Kaelik and Frank allegedly drove her away.

Fuck, I never even got into that whole "Trap" debate in the first place and yet she's blaming me too. Fucking idiot.

The debate I got involved in was whether or not sex-change was a form of mutilation. That happened before the thread Prak linked. And since Frank is studying to be a doc, I deferred to his opinion.

Also... You can check my responses to CeilingCat, but my last responses to her were very polite. I did tell her that she should not expect sympathy in the company of strangers, but I did not disrespect her.

I did, however, show no respect for Crissa's consistent holier-than-thou attitude that offended even Frank, which resulted in a whole bunch of people who normally can't stand each other to call Crissa an idiot.

Because, in many cases - including this one - she's a lying bitch.

Also, yeah, Koumei has target identification issues and thinks I'm one of the people who drove away CeilingCat too. Because apparently they still think I'm Tzor.

Zinegata · Post by **Zinegata** » Wed Aug 04, 2010 7:39 am

CatharzGodfoot wrote:
Psychic Robot wrote:How the fuck was I involved in this? I'm pretty sure the only time I bitched at CielingTrap (oh snap) was when it (doublesnap) was screaming about me on other forums in between stalking me on threads here and whining about what a terrible person I am.
Wow. Just wow.

Hey, if I was stalked by somebody and whined about how terrible a person I am, I'd shout at them too.

Don't be a bitch if you can't take bitching yourself.

Mask_De_H · Post by **Mask_De_H** » Wed Aug 04, 2010 7:40 am

Zinegata wrote:I'm beginning to suspect most people here all had rap sheets with the WoTC moderators.

That's not a good thing.

I never had a WoTC account, so eye'm the strongest.

Also, fuck, Count was right about that Page 3 thing.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Wed Aug 04, 2010 7:41 am

Lago PARANOIA wrote:Remember when you guys drove away Cielingcat?

Good times.

I'm never showing anyone this board again. That was easily this board's most shameful moment, on-par with the Arturick shit.

Yeah, that was pretty lame.

In our defense, Cielingcat's demands were wholly unreasonable. Remember that telling her that I was entirely willing to treat her as female and accept her decision to chop her penis off was not enough. She wanted me to agree that she was actually going to change biological sex (rather than apparent morphological sex) and support the idea that sex change operations magically work out all the time and solve all gender dysmorphia. And that's not true.

At the point that she started equating people saying that sex transition operations are dangerous and invasive surgeries that don't have a high success rate with "hating" she became a rage spiral waiting to happen. There was simply no way to talk about any of the issues that she was bringing up without flicking her rage switches, because the only things she wanted to hear were positive aphorisms on a subject that is actually quite complicated and under-researched.

Over and above the fact that some people were deliberately trolling her, Ceilingcat wound herself up so tight that it became impossible to respond to her at all without being accused of persecution. Frankly, I don't even know what could be said to her that wouldn't make her rage spiral. I hope she got the psychological help she needed, and doubtless still needs, because there is no way in hell that any of us could give it to her on an internet forum where she could and did relegate any post that contained any statement anywhere in it that she didn't want to hear as an aggressive troll.

-Username17

CatharzGodfoot · Post by **CatharzGodfoot** » Wed Aug 04, 2010 7:43 am

Zinegata wrote:
CatharzGodfoot wrote:
Psychic Robot wrote:How the fuck was I involved in this? I'm pretty sure the only time I bitched at CielingTrap (oh snap) was when it (doublesnap) was screaming about me on other forums in between stalking me on threads here and whining about what a terrible person I am.
Wow. Just wow.
Hey, if I was stalked by somebody and whined about how terrible a person I am, I'd shout at them too.

Don't be a bitch if you can't take bitching yourself.

A person being a bitch to you never justifies sexism against them. No matter what. Michael Richards learned the same lesson about racism. As soon as you devolve into a bigot, you loose any high ground you may have once had.

Zinegata · Post by **Zinegata** » Wed Aug 04, 2010 7:48 am

FrankTrollman wrote:In our defense, Cielingcat's demands were wholly unreasonable. Remember that telling her that I was entirely willing to treat her as female and accept her decision to chop her penis off was not enough. She wanted me to agree that she was actually going to change biological sex (rather than apparent morphological sex) and support the idea that sex change operations magically work out all the time and solve all gender dysmorphia. And that's not true.

Exactly.

Psychic Robot · Post by **Psychic Robot** » Wed Aug 04, 2010 7:48 am

This is the Internet. There is no moral high ground.

EDIT: Here are the last two things I said to CielingCat.

CC wrote:If you have an opinion on lgbt (especially t) issues, and you are not the specific letter for which you have an opinion, your opinion is almost 100% of the time going to be not just factually wrong on the major issues, but it will display a complete and utter lack of understanding of anything you are talking about.

Also, any opinion based on "common sense" will be wrong. Every time. I think I have a 100% track record for that being wrong.

The only acceptable opinion is an informed one.

PR wrote:Could you perhaps elaborate on this? I'm a little confused. When you say "opinion," do you mean "belief"? Because opinions can't be wrong, but beliefs can. ("The sun is blue" is a belief; "the sun is pretty" is an opinion.)

CC wrote:Allies do not get to have "opinions" on people that differ from the facts or from their lived experiences. You can support people, but when you start dictating how things "really" are you can just get the fuck out.

Maybe I phrased things a little too broadly, but honestly, if people get turned off of supporting lgbt rights because they don't get to tell trans people that they're mutilating themselves-which is the argument that brought me to say this in the first place-then they were never allies in the first place and we don't want them.

Like, if someone's "opinion" on evolution or whatever is that there are "two sides to the argument" you'd tell them to fuck right off. Because that is the only real response to that, because when someone makes that argument it's rarely even worth it to try to teach them better.

PR wrote:I'm a little confused. SRS is a form of mutilation. It fits the dictionary definition of mutilation. Is calling it "mutilation" impolite? Yes, to some degree, as the speaker is probably attempting to evoke an emotionally-charged reaction from the listeners by using such terminology. But, yes, transgender people who have mastectomies or phalloplasty are mutilating themselves.

Is it more aesthetically pleasing to the transgender person? Yes, in the same way that someone with body identity integrity disorder feels that it is more aesthetically pleasing to live life without a limb or three.

Is it acceptable to have the opinion that transgender people shouldn't have SRS? Yes, it is. Because it's an opinion. It might not be politically correct, and transgender people might not agree with it, but that doesn't mean that it's wrong. It's like arguing about whether or not transgenderism should be considered a mental disorder: transgendered people probably feel that they're perfectly normal while much of the rest of society looks at them as being completely abnormal because, let's face it, thinking that you were born in the wrong kind of body is strange.

And yes, I realize that this can very well lead to the argument about whether or not homosexuality should be considered a mental disorder.

How is this me driving CielingCat away?

CatharzGodfoot · Post by **CatharzGodfoot** » Wed Aug 04, 2010 7:53 am

Psychic Robot wrote:This is the Internet. There is no moral high ground.

"This is the internet" arguments only go so far. You can stare into the abyss without becoming a monster, and if you do become one you have only yourself to blame for your actions.

[edit]
Re: your edit--

I don't know who drove the Cat away. At this point it hardly matters. What does matter is that, even months later, at the first mention of her you start making sexist jabs.
[/edit]

Psychic Robot · Post by **Psychic Robot** » Wed Aug 04, 2010 7:56 am

CatharzGodfoot wrote:"This is the internet" arguments only go so far. You can stare into the abyss without becoming a monster, and if you do become one you have only yourself to blame for your actions.

I'm pretty sure being snide about CielingCat's gender when she's not even around to see it doesn't fit the "monster" category. If I wanted to be a monster, I could have been.

I don't know who drove the Cat away. At this point it hardly matters. What does matter is that, even months later, at the first mention of her you start making sexist jabs.

If I were one to quibble, I would point out that it was the second mention.

Zinegata · Post by **Zinegata** » Wed Aug 04, 2010 7:58 am

CatharzGodfoot wrote:A person being a bitch to you never justifies sexism against them. No matter what. Michael Richards learned the same lesson about racism. As soon as you devolve into a bigot, you loose any high ground you may have once had.

No, in an ideal world intolerance is never justifiable. Not just sexism or racism. Intolerance.

But frankly, the Den is not a tolerant board. It's a mostly far-left looney bin who are such utter assholes about their ideology that it makes Jon Stewart look like a conservative. People here have even argued that we should keep having abortions for the sole purpose of dulling the public's senses and kill off the Pro-Life crowd.

So if your forum allows people to throw shit, don't whine when shit gets thrown back at you. You cannot be selective with your tolerance.