Do we come here because every other forum is a wasteland?

[Maj]

Every new product should be listed on their counter and their wall and memorized by their employees before they serve it.

Can't happen. Things like polysorbate 80 come from corn, but seriously knows that stuff? There are hundreds of food additives in most national restaurants' food, and many of them are derived from multiple types of plant (diglycerides can come from canola or soy). The industrial food chain is so separated from the real food that it's pretty much impossible to educate the average waitress on how to pronounce the ingredients, let alone what they are and what kind of plant they come from.

[For Valor]

I think that was an exaggeration of Crissa's part.

... at least I hope. Of course, if it wasn't, then could be the perfect opportunity to further derail this thread.

[Crissa]

The industrial food chain is so separated from the real food that it's pretty much impossible to educate the average waitress on how to pronounce the ingredients, let alone what they are and what kind of plant they come from.

Then maybe you shouldn't be running a national food chain. Or putting those things in your food.

Every starred chef in the world would agree with me. And most nutritionists. It's hardly an indefensible position.

Besides, what's so wrong about requiring national chains to have the same labeling as in our grocery stores? Give them a cue card.

-Crissa

Personally, I only know that most unpronounceables are from corn. I figure it's up to someone to know if it's something they can't eat or not... Some strict Jewish people are very specific about that, but most in the US are not. I don't have anyone I cook for who avoids corn products, only corn sugars. But they can't know if it is in there or not if the restaurant does not keep track. That's wrong. Period.

[erik]

This claim...

They should still know what's in their food, though. But national chains? They should know. Every new product should be listed on their counter and their wall and memorized by their employees before they serve it.

differs from this claim...

Besides, what's so wrong about requiring national chains to have the same labeling as in our grocery stores? Give them a cue card.

Memorized != cue card. And it is unreasonable to expect someone with a minimal amount of training and compensation to spend that amount of time to learn all the ingredients contained in everything.

Ingredients and nutritional breakdowns should be available upon request, which I believe they are.

[Crissa]

Yes, they differ. So what?

And no, they are not. Go ahead, go to ten national fast food restaurants and ask about the nutritional breakdown of their newest product. I would be surprised if you found six which could do so.

-Crissa

[MGuy]

I am very sure Crissa is just exaggerating her point. Most people don't even care about the nutritional facts about what they eat. Its generally accepted by most people for MOST fast food chains that when you go there you certainly don't go there to eat healthy. If someone really wants to know the nutritional facts about what they eat the burden certainly shouldn't be on the highschool/college kids and other minimum wage employees to memorize nutritional facts about the burgers they are flipping. Its hard enough just to keep them from jerking off in your food much less have them memorize some numbers 99% of their customers aren't going to ask about.

[Crissa]

MGuy, that's a stupid post.

() You confused holding the corporation responsible for the employees as holding employees responsible.

() You insist 99% of people don't care. It's probably most, but you're talking out of your hat.

() People don't care because the corporation can afford to fight them off. Government should talk people's side, not be uninvolved.

() If a corporation can't get their employees to memorize the ingredients in their foods, maybe they shouldn't be serving those ingredients.

Yeah, it's a high level of expectation. A four-star chef expects every line man, wait staff, host to memorize their menu. But the menu at a fast food joint is actually far simpler!

Maybe we should have higher expectations and respect for employees and customers all around?

-Crissa

[ubernoob]

Yes, they differ. So what?

And no, they are not. Go ahead, go to ten national fast food restaurants and ask about the nutritional breakdown of their newest product. I would be surprised if you found six which could do so.

-Crissa

Actually, there's typically a printout in the office of the place. The information is publicly available online as well.
http://www.mcdonalds.com/us/en/food/foo ... oices.html
http://www.tacobell.com/nutrition
http://www.subway.com/applications/Nutr ... index.aspx
http://www.arbys.com/nutrition/

I'm not even bother to look up more fast food chains. The first four I thought of had literally 1 click to get to the nutrition information. And of the ones I've actually worked in, all of them had the nutrition information listed SOMEWHERE even if it was just a flier in the office.

So yeah, straw man less.

[Crissa]

Yes, because ubernoob bothered to walk down and ask.

Oh wait, he didn't.

Fuck you, lazy ass wannabe. You might as well whine that everyone doesn't have a smartphone with internet access and a latte to look over their nutrition decisions. Because that's what you just did.

Their website isn't at the counter, is it?

-Crissa

[Psychic Robot]

Crissa, stop being an idiot. You're whining about shit that doesn't matter.

[Count Arioch the 28th]

There are hundreds of thousands of things sold in my store. Requiring people to memorize all of it for $7-$8 an hour is a stupid requirement.

[Crissa]

You work at a restaurant, Count?

Maybe they'd have to pay people more. They can't operate with just the manager, you know.

-Crissa

[Count Arioch the 28th]

Here's the thing: They WOULDN'T pay people more. And people would take it up the pooper and deal because no one can afford to leave their jobs these days because there's a hundred of people waiting to pounce in it the second you do.

Sure, they CAN'T work with just the manager. They don't have to, a restaurant could replace their entire staff in an afternoon with the way unemployment is right now.

[Psychic Robot]

Your ideas are stupid.

EDIT: Not Count's. Crissa's.

[Count Arioch the 28th]

I am well aware that my ideas are stupid. And I'm pretty sure everyone here is aware that my ideas are stupid. No need to point out the obvious.

[Psychic Robot]

I meant Crissa's ideas were stupid.

[Crissa]

So, Count doesn't work in a restaurant, so he's completely over his head here in despair. But that doesn't actually say positive or negative to my point, does it?

Chains can afford to know their nutritional values - but that information is still hidden from the majority of the customers. It's only 'unimportant' as long as whether or not knowing the stuff you eat is good for you or not.

Corporations fight against other companies being able to say their product is scientifically better or different - because they know consumers will opt away from the worse product. This is why organic eggs do sell for many times more than the cost to produce them. This is why there is a brand of eggs that have different nutritional data. This is why the top meat processor doesn't want their competition to be allowed to test meat before it goes to consumers.

Being informed is important. No one has actually faced my claims, merely put up unrelated complaints. Which is par for the course.

Miners really should protest against safety rules, too. This is why Union shops suffer more accidents and safety violations than non-union shops, right?

-Crissa

[Psychic Robot]

This is why organic eggs do sell for many times more than the cost to produce them.

Or maybe it's because, I don't know, chickens raised organically and not on a perpetual deluge of hormones produce fewer eggs, thus decreasing the supply and raising the price?

[Count Arioch the 28th]

So, Count doesn't work in a restaurant, so he's completely over his head here in despair.

I've worked in more restaurants than you have. I haven't worked in one for about three months, but I've been in and our of restaurants since I was 14. The second part was out of line and I'd like an apology please.

[Crissa]

I don't normally reply to PR, but I do when he's especially wrong. No hormones are allowed for use on hens in the US. And as far as I know, there's no way to get them to lay eggs faster than 1/day.

I also said 'cost'. Organic eggs are considered a huge profit center - assuming you can get the big processors to sell you equipment.

-Crissa

How many restaurants do you think I've worked in, anyhow? It's not many, but it's enough to know none have a thousand products. I've worked for Domino's, Taco Bell, a local chain, and three other sit-down restaurants. I have a funny story about being banned from purchasing cheesecake at one place, even when I offered him more money for it.

I've worked less retail than food service, but I still have nightmares about working food service. Strangely including Pizza Hut, which I neither like their food nor worked for them. How do you dream about that? I don't know.

[ubernoob]

Yes, because ubernoob bothered to walk down and ask.

Oh wait, he didn't.

And of the ones I've actually worked in, all of them had the nutrition information listed SOMEWHERE even if it was just a flier in the office.

Crissa, stop being a bitch. I've actually worked in major fast food chains they totally do carry binders with the nutritional information printed out just in case someone actually bothers to ask. I know this because I at one point in my life actually worked such shitty jobs. They don't display it with the menu because that's stupid and hurts sales, but they totally do have it in the chain specifically so that they can give a grand 'fuck you' to people like you by saying 'it is available on request.'

Now, if you're not a mouthbreather that is too stupid to live, you KNOW you're not eating healthy when you eat fast food. That's pretty fucking common knowledge. Just to what degree of unhealthy is a pretty fucking moot point because if you're healthy you don't eat fast food and if you're hungry you're going to eat because you're hungry.

TLDR: Fuck off

[Psychic Robot]

Fine, so they don't use hormones. Either way, costs are higher because the food is expensive and they can raise comparatively fewer chickens than their competitors.

[Crissa]

They don't display it with the menu because that's stupid and hurts sales,

Yes. Thank you for just proving my point.

You never usually add anything to the conversation. Thank you for also pointing out that it's not actually available, though.

-Crissa

[ubernoob]

They don't display it with the menu because that's stupid and hurts sales,

Yes. Thank you for just proving my point.

You never usually add anything to the conversation. Thank you for also pointing out that it's not actually available, though.

-Crissa

Bitch, read what I write. Available is not the same as 'out'. They say it's available upon request, and it totally is. You're lying when you say it isn't.

Here is what you actually said:

Even now, when they are required, they're very circumspect about hiding such things. If you were to go to every chain outlet, I'm sure you still wouldn't find full nutritional details available at a majority of them. And even if you did, it's probably hidden back by the toilets or something.

That is wrong. That is just flat out wrong. Stop lying.

[Zinegata]

Crissa->

Serious;y.

I still don't get how believing "Customers are responsible for learning the nutritional content of what they eat" means you believe "Poor people only have themselves to blame".

Does this mean Maj, Count, PR, ubernoob, and all the other guys pointing out Crissa's position is silly also believe poor people only have themselves to blame?