3.5+Complete Series Cleric Archers

Quantumboost · Post by **Quantumboost** » Thu Sep 30, 2010 5:08 pm

So, in a meatspace game (character creation this evening, at 6th level) I plan to play an elven cleric archer. Most of the information I've found on this board pertains to either a 3.0-based build or changes from immediately after 3.5 came out, and therefore doesn't completely account for Complete Divine, etc.

As far as the game goes, it's in a custom campaign setting, planes other than the Plane of Shadow are inaccessible, and books as I understand it are "core and splatbooks" (which I've been informed does not include Encyclopedia Arcane). Elf domain has been okayed in casual conversation.

So, I have a few questions regarding the build:

1) Feats. I presume that Zen Archery is too good to pass up for MAD purposes, and that I'll want Extend Spell to keep weapon buffs up all day. And of course archery feats. Is directly slapping on Persist still worth it at later levels with the +6 slots instead of +4? Does Divine Metamagic (Persist) indicate wrongly that I hate the DM and want him to suffer?

2) What sort of full-casting prestige classes are there for an cleric who likes to arrow people in the face? I'm pretty sure I won't be able to talk the DM into using Defenders of the Faith instead of Complete Divine (:tear:), I'm aware of Contemplative, Divine Disciple (sadly not as dippable if PGTF overrides FRCS), and... maybe Church Inquisitor (Contemplative and Church Inquisitor may be difficult due to the Special prerequisites).

Are there any other worthwhile options I'm missing?

3) Supposing I can pull off a PrC that gives non-preselected extra domains, what are the juicy ones?

4) Any other pitfalls to watch out for?

ubernoob · Post by **ubernoob** » Thu Sep 30, 2010 5:59 pm

sake · Post by **sake** » Thu Sep 30, 2010 7:03 pm

ubernoob wrote:I wouldn't try for DMM:Persist at this level unless you're also packing multiple nightsticks. Instead, just take Zen archery, PBS, Rapidshot and toss down divine favor as needed. Be a cloistered cleric to trade the knowledge domain for knowledge devotion.

I suggest not being an elf. A better race would be something like a dragonborn bouman. Y'know, anything with a wisdom bonus and no constitution penalty. If you really need bow proficiency, it's only a feat away (otherworldly) or a dip into Radiant Servant of Pelor.

But the point of being an elf and taking the elf domain so you don't have to waste your tiny handful of feats getting the bloody bow proficiency and PBS. Besides this is 3.5, where you can actually play a race that doesn't have a stat boost for your primary stat, and still not suck.

I forget, does cloistered cleric still get medium BAB? If not, then I'd avoid it, at low levels you can't expect to have attack bonus buffs up full time.

RobbyPants · Post by **RobbyPants** » Thu Sep 30, 2010 7:23 pm

sake wrote:I forget, does cloistered cleric still get medium BAB? If not, then I'd avoid it, at low levels you can't expect to have attack bonus buffs up full time.

It gets poor base attack.

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Thu Sep 30, 2010 7:46 pm

EDIT: You want to be a Cloistered Cleric anyway, because you lose one point of BAB before you PRC out, You get Divine Power, and it adds more than one to your AB and damage from the knowledge skills+Knowledge Devotion.

Contrary to uber, you want to keep Knowledge Domain, because it gives you knowledge skills as class skills, and you want that to spend the point so when you trade Oracle domain later, you are better off.

Cloistered Cleric Knowledge Domain kept, not traded.

Domains: Planning, Spell, Elf are all good. Also Time, Travel.

Try to find a stupid elf subrace with a Wisdom bonus.

Depending if you want to be DMM focused or not (Or if you are starting at an even or odd level), you either:

1) Dread Necro 1, Neutral Cloistered Cleric who channels positive energy 4/Divine Oracle a few (Trade Oracle Domain for Knowledge Devotion)/Paragnostic Apostle some (Or anything else you can get easy)/Contemplative. Feats are probably all Extra Turning after you get Persist and DMM.

Pros: Double turn attempts in general, and from each feat, way more spells Persisted then you care about. Use Spell Domain to Persist Heroics a few times for feats to Rapid Shot with archery feats, can do some stuff to give infinite healing.

Important Spells: Divine Power, Righteous Might, any way you can Polymorph into an Arrow Demon, Recitation too.

2) Cloistered Cleric keeping knowledge 4/Church Inquisitor 1/Divine Oracle 2 (Trading Oracle for Knowledge Devotion)/Mix up Church Inquisitor with Divine Oracle till you get to Contemplative, unless there are any good elf only cleric PrCs.

Domains: Elf, Spell, Knowledge (free) Later other stuff that grants feats or Travel from Contemplative.

Feats: Zen Archery, PBS (from Domain), Rapid Shot, Skill Focus (Knowledge Religion) as a prereq, either more archery feats or start going down the DMM route here.

Pros: Maintain full spellcasting. lose one point of BAB for knowledge skills that grant way more than 1 point to attack and damage, and you end up DMM Persisting Divine Power later anyway. Also free goodies from your PRCs, and being good means you get to enter earlier.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Thu Sep 30, 2010 8:06 pm

The original Cleric Archer was based on the fact that archery bonuses were very easy to get. Stacking GMW, Blessed Aim, Recitation, Prayer, Divine Favor, it was a beautiful and stupid thing.

For 3.5 plus Completies, you seriously might be better off just going into melee. Spikes is fucking ridiculous, and stacks with most of the rest of it anyway.

-Username17

Quantumboost · Post by **Quantumboost** » Thu Sep 30, 2010 9:33 pm

FrankTrollman wrote:The original Cleric Archer was based on the fact that archery bonuses were very easy to get. Stacking GMW, Blessed Aim, Recitation, Prayer, Divine Favor, it was a beautiful and stupid thing.

For 3.5 plus Completies, you seriously might be better off just going into melee. Spikes is fucking ridiculous, and stacks with most of the rest of it anyway.

-Username17

Really? Damn. I'm partly into the idea for the lulz to be had, though I may have to consider going beatstick cleric or bearcaster depending on how inferior the archering is. <_<

Lago PARANOIA · Post by **Lago PARANOIA** » Thu Sep 30, 2010 11:09 pm

Spikes got stealth-nerfed, along with a bunch of cleric staples, in the Spell Compendium. Spikes really isn't worth your time TBH.

Cleric archers honestly aren't all that much better than rogue-archers or even 3.5E fighter-archers unless you routinely do short workdays until around level 8 or so anyway.

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Thu Sep 30, 2010 11:22 pm

Lago PARANOIA wrote:Spikes got stealth-nerfed, along with a bunch of cleric staples, in the Spell Compendium. Spikes really isn't worth your time TBH.

Cleric archers honestly aren't all that much better than rogue-archers or even 3.5E fighter-archers unless you routinely do short workdays until around level 8 or so anyway.

Well yeah, you are only as good as a Rogue or Fighter but can also cast spells if you need to. And you get to be better than them both forever at level 8. It's still worth it.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Fri Oct 01, 2010 5:19 am

I thought we were talking completes only with no Spell Compendium. That means that all the stealth nerfs get to be ignored, right?

-Username17

Xur · Post by **Xur** » Fri Oct 01, 2010 8:29 am

Damn it, I was relly hoping someone would come up with a cool 3.5 version of the Cleric Archer. Seems without DoF there is no real point in going this way?

FrankTrollman wrote:I thought we were talking completes only with no Spell Compendium. That means that all the stealth nerfs get to be ignored, right?

-Username17

Are there no good options for Cleric Archers in other supplements than the Completes?

RobbyPants · Post by **RobbyPants** » Fri Oct 01, 2010 1:49 pm

Xur wrote:Are there no good options for Cleric Archers in other supplements than the Completes?

Nightsticks from Libris Mortis, if you're using DMM, although this applies to clerics in general, and not just cleric archers.

Do you know what the rest of the party is playing? How good are these guys at optimizing? If the DM says "Core and Completes only", and all of the players say stuff like "Monk" or "Fighter", then you really don't have to shoot too high.

Quantumboost · Post by **Quantumboost** » Fri Oct 01, 2010 4:00 pm

One of the players is playing straight Barbarian, one's playing an "entrepreneur" (rogue) who sounds like he'll avoid getting into combat too much (picked the class for the skillpoints). The remaining player is playing a crazy summoner wizard with stuff to pump summons (Augment Summoning and apparently other things along that line). I've heard indications that there will be an NPC tagalong of yet-indeterminate nature.

Decided to just go with a Trickery/Magic Cleric (of mischief aka Giant Frog aka "trolling" D:) and rely primarily on the buffing for melee/ranged. And carry around a wand of some incapacitation spell for giving sneak attack bennies to the rogue.