The reason fighters can't have nice things.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Tue Oct 12, 2010 4:56 pm

Zinegata wrote:Even today, one can seriously argue that despite the "You shall have one God" thing in the 10 Commandements, that Christianity never actually left its polytheistic Roman roots. Otherwise, why do we have patron Saints for literally everything, just like how Romans had Gods for everything?

Hell, it doesn't even say that, it says "You shall have no other gods before me. In Exodus Yah-lah seriously marches into Egypt and kicks Furry ass. Christianity's thing wasn't "There's only one god" it was "Our gods the best, you pig-fuckers, now suck on our shit because you're all going to hell!"

Sashi · Post by **Sashi** » Tue Oct 12, 2010 5:04 pm

Moses walks up to Pharaoh and uses his God's magic to turn his walking stick into a snake, then Pharaoh's magicians walk up and use their magic to turn their sticks into snakes. Then Moses' snake eats their snakes, proving that his godmagic is superior, not that he's the only one with godmagic.

Maj · Post by **Maj** » Tue Oct 12, 2010 7:25 pm

Jesus H. Christ, people. Can we please leave Christianity OUT of this discussion?! Why am I the one begging for that sanity?

Now, treating the Bible like it's literature, and not, in fact, literal doctrine (I'm running with the KJV version of Jesus because that's the closest Bible I have on hand)...

On perusal through Matthew, Jesus' magic part of his life begins after he is baptized by his cousin and spends 40 days out in the desert resisting the devil's temptations. His subsequent miracles don't seem to come in a progressively more difficult order. He gives lots of lectures to people, passes out his power to prequalified individuals, and does random helpful stuff until he dies and becomes immmortal.

Not really a good story of leveling.

In Mark, Jesus starts off getting baptized, then miracles are go. Partway through his life, he actually takes some of his peeps up onto a mountain and demonstrates that he's a demigod by getting all transfigured and summoning Moses and Elias to talk about prophecy fulfillment. Then back to the miracles with a quick detour for some anger management lessons, and finally death and immortality.

Another good story of not leveling.

The next book is Luke, and the story starts off with announcements to various background characters about special children (John the Baptist and Jesus). The nativity is next. The Jesus growing up and visiting Jerusalem every year for Passover until his twelveth year where he decided he wasn't going to go home with his parents (and they didn't notice he was gone) because he stayed and hung out in the temple engaging in amazing - but non-miraculous - religio-philosophical discussion ("And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man"). The next event is Jesus' baptism at around 30 years of age, so big jump forward, followed by the 40 days of temptation by the devil out in the middle of nowhere. Then we head into miracle territory, and Jesus tells a lot of stories. At some point, Jesus does his big reveal to his peeps and then says to keep all hush about it becuase he's got to be human for a while. More miracles and lecture circuit follow, then onto the dying and immortality part, after which he throws a last party and ascends into the sky.

So there's progression in that baby Jesus was swaddled, he performed no miracles until later, and the experience culminates in a state of not being able to die again, but really... When getting blessed while bathing and then starving yourself for more than a month while some asshole tells you to eat bread made of rocks is how you get your magical powers, it's a bad story of leveling.

Last, we've got John. After the baptism, Jesus tells lots of stories and declares himself to be everything from a plant to the son of God. Oh yeah, he performs lots of magic. Then he dies, comes back to life, and goes fishing with his peeps - who don't recognize him at first. If you continue into the next book - Acts - we see that Jesus then went on tour, and went all ascendant before Pentacost.

So no leveling there, either.

See? It is possible to discuss this coherently, rationally, and end up with a religious(ish) person admitting she was wrong.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Tue Oct 12, 2010 7:51 pm

Maj wrote:Jesus H. Christ, people. Can we please leave Christianity OUT of this discussion?!

Considering that part of the discussion is about Jesus, the Lord and Savior of the Christian faith.... no. No we can't. We're not even talking about him in some non-Christian context, you totally brought up Jesus as described in the Christian texts. So any discussion about any of it will revolve entirely around Christianity. It's a definitional thing.

See? It is possible to discuss this coherently, rationally, and end up with a religious(ish) person admitting she was wrong.

Sure. But you're still talking about Christian texts about Christ. Christianity is at no point absent or even distant from that discussion. It is 100% about Christianity when you are talking about Jesus in terms of Christian scripture.

-Username17

Maj · Post by **Maj** » Tue Oct 12, 2010 7:58 pm

Frank wrote:We're not even talking about him in some non-Christian context, you totally brought up Jesus as described in the Christian texts.

Why, when it's Greek mythology, are you capable of sounding like a normal person, but when it's Christian mythology, you go off on diatribes about I-don't-give-a-damn-what?

Frank wrote:Sure. But you're still talking about Christian texts about Christ.

It's a goddamned book with stories in it. I picked a story, not a fucking belief system. For someone who wants religion to go away, you're sure working really hard to keep it here.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:08 pm

Maj wrote:
Frank wrote:We're not even talking about him in some non-Christian context, you totally brought up Jesus as described in the Christian texts.
Why, when it's Greek mythology, are you capable of sounding like a normal person, but when it's Christian mythology, you go off on diatribes about I-don't-give-a-damn-what?

Because you're a Christian so when I talk about Hinduism or Greek Mythology you aren't offended and when I talk about Christian articles of faith you are offended. It's that fucking simple. The problem is 100% you and 0% me.

Me going off about how Arjuna both was and was not the same person as the person in the chariot next to him did not bother you at all, because you're not a Hindu and people can contextualize and mock Hindu beliefs all they want and you don't give a fuck. When I mentioned the doctrine of omnipotence you got a stick up your ass because suddenly that's "you" whose beliefs are being considered and rejected.

-Username17

Orion · Post by **Orion** » Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:32 pm

I only want to add that in some of the Hindu Puranas, "god" isn't even a race, it's just a *title*. Seriously, there are stories in which not can humans become gods, but it's implied that that's how Indra and co. go there in the firstplace, and FURTHERMORE that even the king of the gods will eventually die and leave his throne to someone else.

(There are other stories in which humans who have become gods are different from natural gods and have different powers. The king of the gods is still an ex-human though)

Maj · Post by **Maj** » Wed Oct 13, 2010 12:17 am

Frank wrote:Me going off about how Arjuna both was and was not the same person as the person in the chariot next to him did not bother you at all, because you're not a Hindu and people can contextualize and mock Hindu beliefs all they want and you don't give a fuck. When I mentioned the doctrine of omnipotence you got a stick up your ass because suddenly that's "you" whose beliefs are being considered and rejected.

You're the one who thinks I'm a Christian because I've attended church. I consider myself as much a Christian as I consider myself a Muslim, Hindu, or Shinto, and I've stated outright that my beliefs are more pantheist than anything else. I've already requested once that you stop telling me what I believe. I will ask you again: Please stop telling me what I believe in.

Zinegata · Post by **Zinegata** » Wed Oct 13, 2010 1:23 am

Prak_Anima wrote:Hell, it doesn't even say that, it says "You shall have no other gods before me. In Exodus Yah-lah seriously marches into Egypt and kicks Furry ass. Christianity's thing wasn't "There's only one god" it was "Our gods the best, you pig-fuckers, now suck on our shit because you're all going to hell!"

Not even that, actually. "Our God is the best" is a big theme in the Old Testament, which was basically copy-pasted off the Jewish holy book. But the New Testament actually goes a long way towards repudiating the Old Testament.

Probably because the Jews were seen by the Romans as the Islamic terrorists of our day (given that big revolt in Judea), and the Romans wanted people to "Stop revolting over silly, stupid things like religion. God is NOT gonna tear down walls for you. Believe in a God that gives you fish and bread instead!"

(Seriously, the Old Testament has a lot more in common with ancient myths. It has a creation story. It has a code of laws. It has epics and battles. It has God literally tearing down walls for His People.)

Christianity (or more correctly the Roman Catholic side) really only became monotheistic when the Roman Empire in the West fell to the barbarian hordes.

Roman leaders were sophisticated enough to understand that the Bible was a two-part thing that was meant to promote a peaceful and orderly society. The barbarian kings that followed adopted Christianity, but didn't have the sophistication or the intellect to realize this and instead went "David is cool. And our God used to be able to bring down castle walls. God is on our side! God wills it!" (all of which come from the Old Testament)

Zinegata · Post by **Zinegata** » Wed Oct 13, 2010 1:42 am

Maj wrote:Jesus H. Christ, people. Can we please leave Christianity OUT of this discussion?! Why am I the one begging for that sanity?

Because you're one of the handful of truly sane and well-adjusted people on this board?

Really, Frank's not interested in discussing the Bible as a literary document, because he knows he's gonna lose that argument.

You should just point out that he completely evaded all of the examples you cited. Instead, he engaged in far-left strawman attacks against religious people in general. Which is simply bigotry.

And why is it bigotry? Because sane people like us know that while the some people cling on to stupid dogma, most people who call themselves Christians don't. Most Christians don't wake up in the morning going "Haha! All the Buddhists are going to Hell!", but are instead really normal people who find solace in a religion whose overriding theme is "You can be awesome by showing love and compassion".

Moreover, it also ignores the fact that Christians like to debate about the exact nature of their religion all the time. That's called theology. So going "Christians aren't allowed to talk about Christ except as a God" is patently stupid. .

Christ's story - taken as-is without any of its Roman trappings - actually more closely mirrors Buddhism than any of the other Monotheistic religions. Seriously, that's why Buddhist-Catholic families exist in the Philippines and nobody gives a shit that it technically violates the one God thing (which was only largely put in place by ignorant warlike barbarians anyway). So when somebody goes "Christians must only view Christ as a God", I mock them for being ignorant.

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Wed Oct 13, 2010 2:19 am

Zinegata wrote:Because sane people like us know that while the some people cling on to stupid dogma, most people who call themselves Christians don't. Most Christians don't wake up in the morning going "Haha! All the Buddhists are going to Hell!", but are instead really normal people who find solace in a religion whose overriding theme is "You can be awesome by showing love and compassion".

You are stupid.

Like, really dumb. Yes, most Christians really do in fact believe that their god is literally omnipotent and also identical to Jesus. That's a real Christian belief that 99.99% of Christians have.

How you can live in the fucked up world of not understanding this fact blows my mind.

virgil · Post by **virgil** » Wed Oct 13, 2010 2:56 am

I'm not sure why you're required to include the entire theological baggage when reading the Bible. I don't, and it's not like it isn't done with the Mahabharata here.

norms29 · Post by **norms29** » Wed Oct 13, 2010 3:12 am

Kaelik wrote:
Zinegata wrote:Because sane people like us know that while the some people cling on to stupid dogma, most people who call themselves Christians don't. Most Christians don't wake up in the morning going "Haha! All the Buddhists are going to Hell!", but are instead really normal people who find solace in a religion whose overriding theme is "You can be awesome by showing love and compassion".
You are stupid.

Like, really dumb. Yes, most Christians really do in fact believe that their god is literally omnipotent and also identical to Jesus. That's a real Christian belief that 99.99% of Christians have.

?

?

ok, either you are operating on some tautological definition of christian where only people who are aggressivly obnoxious about being christian count as christians. or... I don't know, I see no other explanation,

most christians don't have any thoughts at that level of detail, much less a specific thing that they all hold in common.

Zinegata · Post by **Zinegata** » Wed Oct 13, 2010 3:15 am

Kaelik wrote:You are stupid.

No I'm not. Again, your "I win because I say so" tactics are hilarious because they are so sad.

Like, really dumb. Yes, most Christians really do in fact believe that their god is literally omnipotent and also identical to Jesus. That's a real Christian belief that 99.99% of Christians have.

And how does this refute my actual statement - which is that "Most Christians don't cling to stupid dogma"?

The answer: Not at all.

And when have I ever claimed that very many Christians do not believe that God = Jesus?

The answer? Never.

So Kaelik, stop lying.

What you're actually doing, is trying to bring back the discussion to Frank's (discreditted) argument that "God = Jesus". And while a lot of Christians do believe in this (which I again never denied, and Maj also never denied), very many Christians also believe that Jesus was a man before he achieved divinity.

In short, you're trying to win this argument by only pointing out the portions of the truth that are convenient to you. That portion is the end state - wherein Jesus was resurrected and became immortal/divine.

However, Maj's argument centers around the life of Jesus as a man, as recounted in the very many gospels. That happens before the end state, and it's widely accepted by many Christians that Jesus was, in fact, a man during his time walking around in the Gospels.

Meanwhile, I have mainly provided more historical context, showing that the evolution and rationale behind the Roman's establishment of an organized Christian church. And all it shows is that:

1) The monotheistic and dogmatic side of Christianity is based mostly on the text of the Old Testament. When Christianity was originally founded, the Old Testament was supposed to be repudiated by the New. And it was supposed to be a continuation of the polytheistic system the Romans - hence turning Mary into an exalted figure, and having patron Saints for everything.

2) People forgot about this in the Dark Ages. And the barbarian kings focused on the "God that can smash walls for them".

3) In the modern day, if you read the Bible as literature, you find that Jesus's life has more parallels with Buddha than Islam or Judaism. Making the argument that "Jesus was originally supposed to be a monotheistic figure" even more suspect.

None of that contradicts the fact that many Christians today believe that Jesus = God. Like I said, people forgot.

But it does show that the stuff Frank wails about - Monotheism and the like - is actually not in the Bible itself, nor in the story of Jesus. It's actually a product of Roman political acumen and of the gradual decline of its understanding due to the fall of the Roman Empire.

And given that it's entirely kosher to interpret the Bible as literature, even if you're Christian, then Maj has indeed fulfilled K's requirement. Jesus went from man to God. The idea that this was a Xanatos gambit on Jesus' part is not supported at all in any gospel except Judas'.

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Wed Oct 13, 2010 3:42 am

Zinegata wrote:And how does this refute my actual statement - which is that "Most Christians don't cling to stupid dogma"?

Because Jesus being God and omnipotent is stupid dogma that most Christians believe.

Zinegata wrote:very many Christians also believe that Jesus was a man before he achieved divinity.

Nope. 99.99% of Christians do not believe that. They believe he has always been god.

Zinegata wrote:In short, you're trying to win this argument by only pointing out the portions of the truth that are convenient to you.

We do this every fucking time. Now wait, that was Roy last time.

I'm not trying to win any argument, because I'm not in any argument. I'm calling you stupid, because you are being stupid. I don't give two shits about whether or not there are stories of people leveling, or whether there are stories of fighters leveling, or whether Jesus meets either of those categories, or anything else that you fuckers are arguing about.

Zinegata wrote:and it's widely accepted by many Christians that Jesus was, in fact, a man during his time walking around in the Gospels.

It is widely accepted. And by widely, I mean universally, that Jesus was a man and God at the exact same time, starting from when he was born, or possibly before then, depending on who you ask. At no point will any appreciable sampling of currently living Christians tell you that Jesus was not already a God at birth.

Zinegata · Post by **Zinegata** » Wed Oct 13, 2010 4:01 am

Kaelik stop lying. You're just using this thread as an excuse to spew anti-Christian bigotry now.

Kaelik wrote:Because Jesus being God and omnipotent is stupid dogma that most Christians believe.

We've been over this already. Dogma doesn't matter, because Maj isn't talking about dogma. She's talking about Jesus as a figure in literature.

So unless you have evidence that Jesus was monologuing when he said "Father, why has thou forsaken me?", you've got nothing to stand on except your own bigotry.

And yes, it's bigotry. Calling people people stupid for believing in a higher power is bigotry. You're not some beacon of "getting rid of stupidity in the world".

You're just being pathetically retardedly stupid.

Nope. 99.99% of Christians do not believe that. They believe he has always been god.

Nope. That's you being a bigot. There is no study that shows that 99.9% of Christians believe he has always been a God.

We do this every fucking time. Now wait, that was Roy last time.

I'm not trying to win any argument, because I'm not in any argument. I'm calling you stupid, because you are being stupid. I don't give two shits about whether or not there are stories of people leveling, or whether there are stories of fighters leveling, or whether Jesus meets either of those categories, or anything else that you fuckers are arguing about.

Kaelik, again, stop lying.

You quoted something I said. You called me an idiot. You then cited facts.

That's called starting an argument. So again, stop lying. You're in an argument now. And you're losing it because:

#1 You're making up shit about Christianity. Nope, 99.9% of Christians do not believe he was always a God. Stop making that up.

#2 Maj has repeatedly pointed out that she's talking about Jesus as a literal figure. But nope, you instead always go back to dogma.

It is widely accepted. And by widely, I mean universally, that Jesus was a man and God at the exact same time, starting from when he was born, or possibly before then, depending on who you ask. At no point will any appreciable sampling of currently living Christians tell you that Jesus was not already a God at birth.

So again, why would a God say "Father, why has thou forsaken me?" Was he faking it?

Really, you're again just picking a really, really narrow interpretation of Christian faith that focuses on the end state. Which again, is unrelated to what Maj and I are talking about - which is the literal/historical interpretation of Jesus.

So really, you're just using this thread an excuse to engage some anti-Christian bigotry. It's so retarded that it's actually pretty damn sad.

8headeddragon · Post by **8headeddragon** » Wed Oct 13, 2010 4:26 am

So to summarize, fighters are stuck in limbo because people cannot and perhaps may never agree on what their growth is supposed to be like.

Would it be better if 'fighter' didn't exist and people played knights, barbarians, pallies, and such other classes with more room for growth as kinds of fighters? I used to suggest the very same thing to people who wanted to play DMF types but found the base class frustrating.

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Wed Oct 13, 2010 4:37 am

Zinegata wrote:We've been over this already. Dogma doesn't matter, because Maj isn't talking about dogma. She's talking about Jesus as a figure in literature.

We've been over this before, I don't care about what Maj is talking about. I care about what Christians do and do not believe. This is in fact Dogma. The Dogma they believe in.

Zinegata wrote:So unless you have evidence that Jesus was monologuing when he said "Father, why has thou forsaken me?", you've got nothing to stand on except your own bigotry.

Hmm... I believe that most Christians believe something logically impossible. But yes, I'm sure that the fact that something in the Bible contradicts it would magically make them all become sane overnight.

Zinegata wrote:Calling people people stupid for believing in a higher power is bigotry.

No, it's not. If I were doing that, it would not be bigotry, it would true. But I'm actually not doing that. I'm only correcting you on your stupid claim that they don't believe what they actually do.

Zinegata wrote:Nope. That's you being a bigot. There is no study that shows that 99.9% of Christians believe he has always been a God.

Seriously, you don't know what that word means at all. It's not being a bigot to say that Christians believe what they actually believe. There doesn't need to be a study. It's the official fucking dogma of every single church with more than 12 members.

All Lutherans believe it. All Catholics believe it. All Baptists believe it. Ect.

Zinegata wrote:That's called starting an argument. So again, stop lying. You're in an argument now. And you're losing it because:

#1 You're making up shit about Christianity. Nope, 99.9% of Christians do not believe he was always a God. Stop making that up.

#2 Maj has repeatedly pointed out that she's talking about Jesus as a literal figure. But nope, you instead always go back to dogma.

Stop being stupid. I'm "in an argument" that Christians believe X. Therefore... I can't lose the argument because Maj cares about something else besides what Christians believe.

I don't fucking care what Maj cares about. Christians continue to believe that Jesus has always been God no matter what she cares about.

Zinegata wrote:So again, why would a God say "Father, why has thou forsaken me?" Was he faking it?

Because who cares, they can ignore or rationalize that just as easily as all the other things they ignore and rationalize.

Zinegata wrote:Really, you're again just picking a really, really narrow interpretation of Christian faith that focuses on the end state. Which again, is unrelated to what Maj and I are talking about - which is the literal/historical interpretation of Jesus.

I'm just picking a really narrow interpretation of Christian Faith that includes all the Christians, and focusing on how they believe what they believe. It doesn't matter what you are talking about, because that has nothing to do with anything.

Also, the "literal/historical interpretation of Jesus" doesn't exist, so stop wasting your time.

Zinegata wrote:So really, you're just using this thread an excuse to engage some anti-Christian bigotry. It's so retarded that it's actually pretty damn sad.

No, I'm really just contradicting you about something you are wrong about, IE what Christians believe.

Zinegata · Post by **Zinegata** » Wed Oct 13, 2010 5:06 am

Kaelik wrote:We've been over this before, I don't care about what Maj is talking about. I care about what Christians do and do not believe. This is in fact Dogma. The Dogma they believe in.

Oh really?

Because clearly, if you don't care about what Maj said, you're not even attempting to stay tangentially off-topic. You really are just taking a chance to engage in some anti-Christian bigotry.

So go here:

http://www.tgdmb.com/viewforum.php?f=2

Start a thread, and make sure to add a [Politics] tag.

Hmm... I believe that most Christians believe something logically impossible. But yes, I'm sure that the fact that something in the Bible contradicts it would magically make them all become sane overnight.

No, it's not. If I were doing that, it would not be bigotry, it would true. But I'm actually not doing that. I'm only correcting you on your stupid claim that they don't believe what they actually do.

Kaelik, I thought English was your first language?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bigotry

A bigot is a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices, especially one exhibiting intolerance, irrationality, and animosity toward those of differing beliefs.

You just called every person who believes in a high power an idiot.

You then cited an unverifiable statistic that "99.9% of Christians believe God = Jesus 100% of the time". Since it is unverifiable, it is therefore irrational.

You fit the definition. You are a bigot.

Seriously, you don't know what that word means at all. It's not being a bigot to say that Christians believe what they actually believe. There doesn't need to be a study. It's the official fucking dogma of every single church with more than 12 members.

Nope, you're talking about end state again. Like many others have pointed out before - Christ's divinity prior to his death is a subject of lively debate. Was he a man, or was he divine all along? Many do in fact believe that he was a man and it's an essential part of his appeal and belief.

And I learned this from my religion class in college, so yeah my peer group for this was seriously more than 12 members. Again demonstrating that you came up with yet another fabricated (and irrational) statistic.

Also, the "literal/historical interpretation of Jesus" doesn't exist, so stop wasting your time.

I just showed you how to interpret Jesus from a historical context. That's the whole point of my posts. That you deny such an interpretation exists is simply ignorance on your part.

Jesus can be interpreted as a historical figure. Lots of people have done it.

No, I'm really just contradicting you about something you are wrong about, IE what Christians believe.

Nope, what you're doing again is to just engage in bigotry.

You are making an unsubstantiated claim. You have cited the 99.9% statistic several times, and never presented any proof to support it.

As it is not substantiated, it's irrational.

Since it is irrational, and it's meant to be a slur against everyone who believes in a higher power, that's bigotry.

And since you admit that you're just doing it for its own sake as opposed to trying to add to the current discussion, it's off topic.

So go to MPSIM and see whether anybody gives a shit about your bigotry.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Wed Oct 13, 2010 5:09 am

Christian official teachings is that when Jesus said "My God My God Why Have You Forsaken Me?" that he was quoting from Psalm 22 and did not in fact believe that God had in any way forsaken him. Nor did he at that time believe that he was separate from God.

This is why Atheists consistently score better on knowing what religions are talking about than religious people do.

-Username17

Zinegata · Post by **Zinegata** » Wed Oct 13, 2010 5:09 am

8headeddragon wrote: So to summarize, fighters are stuck in limbo because people cannot and perhaps may never agree on what their growth is supposed to be like.

Would it be better if 'fighter' didn't exist and people played knights, barbarians, pallies, and such other classes with more room for growth as kinds of fighters? I used to suggest the very same thing to people who wanted to play DMF types but found the base class frustrating.

Such a sane notion is apparently beyond the scope of this thread!

Zinegata · Post by **Zinegata** » Wed Oct 13, 2010 5:15 am

FrankTrollman wrote:Christian official teachings is that when Jesus said "My God My God Why Have You Forsaken Me?" that he was quoting from Psalm 22 and did not in fact believe that God had in any way forsaken him. Nor did he at that time believe that he was separate from God.

This is why Atheists consistently score better on knowing what religions are talking about than religious people do.

-Username17

Frank loses again for not getting it through his head that nobody gives a shit about "official Christian teachings" when Maj is talking about the Bible as literature.

In short, Frank is trying to make a saving throw by again playing the religion card. Failed.

Really, atheists know a lot about religious trivia. But what's readily apparent about a lot of Internet atheists is that they don't actually have a clue how most normal Christians/Muslims/Buddhists/Whoever really live their lives.

They instead like to point out silly bits of dogma written by people in the Dark Ages just to prove they're so smart.

When in reality, all they're doing is making guys like Glenn Beck win.

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Wed Oct 13, 2010 5:26 am

Zine, you are a joke.

1) You bravely assert that lots of people believe that he was a man and not a god, even though this is explicitly contradictory to every single Christian church in existence. You have no place to complain about evidence.

2) Stop saying "higher power." It's stupid. It's a euphemism for an undefined word. Why even waste your time. And no, I'm not "insulting everyone who believes in a higher power." Not unless you define your euphemism as "A being that is simultaneously and omnipotent eternal timeless being and a human man who is also a God." In which case, go jump off a cliff.

This is TGD, be a fucking man and say what you mean, don't coach your obviously false bullshit in euphemisms.

3) You can't historically interpret a work of literature.

Okay, you can, you are just an idiot for doing so. Tell me about the historical nature of the big White Whale.

Zinegata · Post by **Zinegata** » Wed Oct 13, 2010 5:33 am

Kaelik wrote:Zine, you are a joke.

Kaelik, when will you realize "I win because I say so" only works on people without a backbone?

When I told you to go to MPSIMs and spew your off-topic bigotry there instead, that was not a request. That was a statement. And I'm not I'm not gonna derail this thread any further because of your inability to comprehend simple forum rules.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Wed Oct 13, 2010 5:36 am

Take your No True Scotsman and shove it up your entire ass.

-Username17