Questions about tome

[VladtheLad]

Hey, I have been reading the Tome threads for some time now and I have found them to be very interesting. I might convince my players to try a Tome game out.
I do have some questions though and a lot of them have to do with the book of gears being incomplete.

First of all what is the aimed for power level? Are the tome classes supposed to co-exist with clerics, wizards and druids or are they supposed to be an equal match for a creature of their cr ?



Magic items confuse me in several areas. There is no wealth by level, but you can buy minor items and lesser items for gp. What is the price of a basic magic sword though? What is that of a magic sword with a lesser quality?

Since planar currency is measured in gp then you should be able to know the theoretical gp cost of moderate or major magic items. Whats that?

Where do the other items from the DMG fit in?

Basically I am interesting to see how people here had dealt with these stuff and any other magic items "problems" I am not aware of.

Thankfully Kaeliks errata addresses the issue of potions and other consumables so no problem there.

[Username17]

First of all what is the aimed for power level? Are the tome classes supposed to co-exist with clerics, wizards and druids or are they supposed to be an equal match for a creature of their cr ?

At low levels, being approximately 1-10, these two power benchmarks are pretty much the same. Wizards do fine in the Same Game Test, and only really break it over their knee if they are doing things like abusing Charm Monster or Lesser Planar Binding. And almost none of that stuff is online at levels 6 and below anyway.

Magic items confuse me in several areas. There is no wealth by level, but you can buy minor items and lesser items for gp. What is the price of a basic magic sword though? What is that of a magic sword with a lesser quality?

We never really hammered down a final answer to that. But in general, the following seems to work OK:

Item	Cost
Bonus Item	1,000 gp
Minor Quality	4,000 gp
Medium Quality	12,000 gp
Major Quality	25,000 gp
Epic Quality	100,000 gp

Where do the other items from the DMG fit in?

Usually wherever they would fit in cost-wise. Of course, utility items are way over priced. I would think a Dark Skull should go for like 10 grand and be purchasable for gold and gems. Because it really does not do that much.

-Username17

[Red_Rob]

I lean towards making Medium items Wish economy gear.

Look at what Koumei suggested for rough item allocation:

What rate is generally best for giving out gear? I was thinking something like (per character):

Level:	Minor	Moderate	Awesome	Stat+
5	2	-	-	-
6	2	1	-	-
7	3	1	-	-
8	3	2	-	-
9	4	2	-	+1
10	4	2	-	+2
11	4	3	-	+3
12	X	3	1	+4
13	X	3	1	+5
14	X	4	1	+5
15	X	4	2	+5
16	X	4	2	+5
17	X	4	2	+5
18	X	X	3	+5
19	X	X	3	+5
20	X	X	3	+5

Where Minor items are Minor items (Tome) and Wishable, Medium items are Medium items (Tome) and Unwishable but eventually as common as dirt, and Awesome weapons are probably unique, character-dependent things that are beyond Wishes and are special even at the end.

If you can obtain Medium items with money, then characters will still be penny pinching and Greyhawking by about level 10/11, when they are supposed to be lording it up in castles. It also means entering the Wish economy before this level will gain you a boatload of Medium items, giving exactly the sort of power boost the Wish economy is supposed to avoid. I think Major items and Artifacts come in too late to be the only Wish economy items.

[VladtheLad]

Ok so a vorpal sword would theoretically cost around 25k, while a basic magical sword 1k.

The rest of the DMG items are priced more or less the same. So a gem of brightness will still cost 13k and will be purchasable by normal gold. Will the save DC's for its effects be based on your charisma and level though?

I don't see any epic qualities in the book gears are these supposed to be homemade or stuff like 2 major qualities?

I also read somewhere you are not supposed to give a magic weapon more than two qualities. Is that true? (if its in the tome books I must have missed it).


I was aware of Koumei's table, its pretty helpful.

In the book of gears it says items have supernatural and spell like abilities. Then it goes on to categorize the supernatural(minor, moderate,major) but not the spell-like ones.
It also seems to imply that weapon can have spell like abilities but doesn't explain how that will affect their price or how many times per day they can use the spell.


By the way thanks for answering it helps a lot and the tomes magic/economical system helps a lot.


I am actually toying with the idea of using the DMG treasure per encounter table as is. This will mean the pc's will have around the money the wealth by level table suggests but most of it won't be wish-economy tradable .

[For Valor]

the spell-like ones are "pick a spell. It can't be a very good one. Now you can use it with your sword at-will. Enjoy!"

So that would be:
Spell Selection: DM Fiat (but no Spells That Fvcking Kill People)
Usability: At-will
Classification: I'm pretty sure 1-2 level spells are minor, 3-4 are medium, and 5-6 are major... though someone will probably yell at me for saying this.

[Maxus]

the spell-like ones are "pick a spell. It can't be a very good one. Now you can use it with your sword at-will. Enjoy!"

So that would be:
Spell Selection: DM Fiat (but no Spells That Fvcking Kill People)
Usability: At-will
Classification: I'm pretty sure 1-2 level spells are minor, 3-4 are medium, and 5-6 are major... though someone will probably yell at me for saying this.

Honestly, I'd go 0-3, 4-6, and 7-9.

Still gotta have a non-crazy spell.

[CatharzGodfoot]

Honestly, I'd go 0-3, 4-6, and 7-9.

Still gotta have a non-crazy spell.

And you'd be right. Although 'non-crazy spell' in this case is pretty specific. It doesn't mean 'no dagger of shivering touch or ring or blink'. It means 'no cape of heroism'.

[VladtheLad]

I 'll try one of the two progressions and see what works for me.

So how are the dc's to these items supposed to work. 10+1/2 your character level+charisma mod?