The Shadowrun Situation

[Username17]

Nadja Daviar was a weird case. She got everything a gay man could want out of being a woman. She got to have sex with a super hot man who was himself a classic Gary Stu compete with weird eyes and the ability to turn into a dragon. That is a different Dragon from the one she worked for and possibly also had sex with. Also, she got to become head of a major company and president of the United Canadian and American States. And she got to advance equal rights and make lots of money, and continue sleeping with her half-human boyfriend who, and I am not making this up, put "Mercenary Criminal" on his actual tax returns that he filed with the IRS.

Her character was, in short, the exact opposite of a tragic character. Her bio reads like some sort of bizarre wish fulfillment tirade. Each event only tangentially related to the one before it and even more masturbatory than was previously thought possible. She manages to stay "good" and keep getting the long hard half-dragon cock even as she climbs to the high ranks of politics where you would think that you'd be obligated to compromise from time to time. Not Nadja Daviar. She is able to juggle career, ideology, and love without compromising on anything ever. And while she gets captured a few times, it only lasts long enough for her to get rescued and have more bodice ripping scenes.

Her character was shelved by dint of simply saying "She quit and left town, and we never heard from her again." Which is probably the most elegant way to get rid of a character that annoying and implausible. The worst part for me is not the weird rantings about various completely insane plotlines to explain her showing up again (for fuck's sake, she could just show up, it's not like she was last seen falling off a cliff). The worst part for me is how the yahoos they have writing that shit can't think of a reason to bring her back in the first place. As in, there is seriously no plot advancing reason for her to be there at all, the decision to include her in the plot is totally random and unsupported by any other plans.

-Username17

[Surgo]

This is probably a pretty good time to say "Dragon cock? I walk."

[Stahlseele]

This is probably a pretty good time to say "Dragon cock? I walk."

Well, in her case it'd probably be walk funny . .

[Koumei]

Great, so the reason to bring her back was 100% based on lusty brown elf nipples.

Since when was I making all the big decisions for them?

[knasser]

This is probably a pretty good time to say "Dragon cock? I walk."

Well, in her case it'd probably be walk funny . .

I'm barely checking in on this stuff now, but glad I caught that comment. It seems like nothing much has happened since I quit Shadowrun. There was a discussion about the combat system on rpg.net where Cain was complaining in quantity about how cumbersome SR4.5 is compared to previous editions. And you know what? I really didn't care. It was like a movie I enjoyed at the time, but don't need to see again. I've just checked the shadowrun4.com website and apparently CGL are re-releasing Harlequin's Back and a manual of "classic drones". It seems it's not only Nadja's elf-nipples, they're doing their best to milk.

That said, the Official Forums appear to have nearly 10,000 members which is shocking. Dumpshock itself only lists 12,000 and that goes back a long, long time. Is this the effect of being stamped official? Have many migrated over from Dumpshock? And 800 topics / 16,000 posts? That doesn't seem right.

K.

EDIT: I'm actually really curious about comparing the two forums. I just did a quick count to see how many active topics both have, with active meaning someone replied today. DS has 23, and OF has 14 at time of posting. Don't know that it's statistically significant, but I'd be interested to know how the two are functioning comparatively.

EDIT EDIT: Can't really tell much just by cursory scans of the site by browsing. My calculator tells me that DS has an average of 84 posts per member and the OF has 1.7 posts per member. I guess I'm interested both to see the impact that the OF has on the DS community and as a means of guaging how much CGL are "getting away with it".

[Ancient History]

Here's the two things you need to know about the official SR forums:

Link 1 - My former "friends" have a secret subforum on the official forums where they created a thread specifically to bitch about my three posts.

Link 2 - These same people are complete hypocritical douche bags - and they hate you.

[knasser]

Here's the two things you need to know about the official SR forums:

Link 1 - My former "friends" have a secret subforum on the official forums where they created a thread specifically to bitch about my three posts.

Link 2 - These same people are complete hypocritical douche bags - and they hate you.

That Patrick Goodman and Critias are involved in future development is the most positive thing I've seen for the future of Shadowrun since this whole mess. The former I've seen good work from and the latter I know is a talented fiction writer. Can't comment on the rest. The analogy of you to a general criticising the president and thus being fired is an apt one, though (a reference to McChrystal , I presume). We're always seeing the heads of governments punishing those who know more than them about the subject for being critical.

[Kaelik]

That second thread is fucking hilztothearious.

They spend that whole damn thing bitching about how Frank is the evil antichrist, because he can't be intellectually honest about it because it's impossible to be intellectually honest if you are biased against something succeeding...

And epic fail to see that it applies to them, only infinity times more.

Also, they finally come down to actually discussing errata, and the fucking line dev says "Fuck errata in the ass. If something doesn't work write, that's what new editions are for. Errata is for typos only!"

Fucking dumbass.

And one idiot, not sure which, and not rereading for it, pulled out the Paizo canard:

"Hey, it's a draft, not finished product, so therefore, you aren't allowed to point out faults or you are mean!"

[TheFlatline]

That second thread is fucking hilztothearious.

They spend that whole damn thing bitching about how Frank is the evil antichrist, because he can't be intellectually honest about it because it's impossible to be intellectually honest if you are biased against something succeeding...

And epic fail to see that it applies to them, only infinity times more.

Also, they finally come down to actually discussing errata, and the fucking line dev says "Fuck errata in the ass. If something doesn't work write, that's what new editions are for. Errata is for typos only!"

Fucking dumbass.

And one idiot, not sure which, and not rereading for it, pulled out the Paizo canard:

"Hey, it's a draft, not finished product, so therefore, you aren't allowed to point out faults or you are mean!"

The awesome thing is that they kind of mumble "yeah, but he does have some good points" after dissing him.

What they don't understand is that we're just speculating here. It's not like we're freaking out over SR going in directions we don't like. But we are discussing them, and what we see as fundamental flaws.

It's like bitching that a gearhead takes cars too seriously. What the fuck do you expect?

In Bull's defense about the errata thing, I suspect he's wanting to avoid shit like D&D's Monster Manual 1 errata, where you have to go through and seriously restat every fucking monster in the book. Major changes to the rules system *should* have come out for SR4A, and pages of print-out errata that is not very well organized or formatted is not conductive to overall running of a game.

SR4 is old enough now that seriously, I agree that it's not the time to completely overhaul 4th edition. Take those lessons to SR5. In theory it's a good idea. If it happens in reality... eh... we'll see. I don't have a lot of faith in the product line right now. It's drifting farther towards wanking off on magic and what tech is there is tends to be broken or relegated to the sidelines.

[Stahlseele]

This is probably a pretty good time to say "Dragon cock? I walk."

Well, in her case it'd probably be walk funny . .

:D

I'm barely checking in on this stuff now, but glad I caught that comment. It seems like nothing much has happened since I quit Shadowrun. There was a discussion about the combat system on rpg.net where Cain was complaining in quantity about how cumbersome SR4.5 is compared to previous editions. And you know what? I really didn't care. It was like a movie I enjoyed at the time, but don't need to see again. I've just checked the shadowrun4.com website and apparently CGL are re-releasing Harlequin's Back and a manual of "classic drones". It seems it's not only Nadja's elf-nipples, they're doing their best to milk.

That said, the Official Forums appear to have nearly 10,000 members which is shocking. Dumpshock itself only lists 12,000 and that goes back a long, long time. Is this the effect of being stamped official? Have many migrated over from Dumpshock? And 800 topics / 16,000 posts? That doesn't seem right.

K.

EDIT: I'm actually really curious about comparing the two forums. I just did a quick count to see how many active topics both have, with active meaning someone replied today. DS has 23, and OF has 14 at time of posting. Don't know that it's statistically significant, but I'd be interested to know how the two are functioning comparatively.

EDIT EDIT: Can't really tell much just by cursory scans of the site by browsing. My calculator tells me that DS has an average of 84 posts per member and the OF has 1.7 posts per member. I guess I'm interested both to see the impact that the OF has on the DS community and as a means of guaging how much CGL are "getting away with it".

Well, i registered only my Nick there so nobody else would be able to use it, i also registered CrankTrollman to see if there would be a reaction and then did the same with FrankTrollman just to see the name on the upper right hand corner for some time, when there were not as many people registering and names were displayed for quite some time ^^

[Username17]

They spend that whole damn thing bitching about how Frank is the evil antichrist, because he can't be intellectually honest about it because it's impossible to be intellectually honest if you are biased against something succeeding...

And epic fail to see that it applies to them, only infinity times more.

Heh. Yeah, that one has kept m amused for some time. The inherent irony of saying that someone can't possibly have any points because they are biased boggles my mind. It's a level of projection that is simply astounding. They have stated outright that their own prejudices are so strong that they are going to disagree with other people no matter what they say. And their justification for this is that they think other people might be prejudiced enough to disagree with them regardless of their merits.

In short, in a lengthy tirade Patrick, Bull, and Jason all jumped up and down that they hate me because they believe that I have faults that all three of them confessed to in the same breath. As it happens, I am not like them, and would be willing to give props to a good direction if one were to materialize. But it doesn't matter. Even if I was as bad as they are, I would still only be as bad as they are.

-Username17

[Juton]

I'm under the impression that CGL's licenses are coming up for renewal in a few months. The only way that they won't get both of them is if someone makes a serious bid in excess of CGL. I curious if there is any scuttlebutt about companies considering, not who you'd like to see, are there any companies out there mulling putting in a bid for either property?

[Otakusensei]

Huh, I got mentioned in there. Cool, I'm in good company. And I'm glad my words got through enough to register in the Champagne Room.

The real bitch about all that careful talk of communicating with fans and answering criticism is that they already have. Everything they do, or don't do, is communication of a kind. The fact that the CGL crew and the current freelancers are unable to put out quality product on time says volumes about Jason's ability to act as line dev and the situation at CGL.

I love that bit about Jason thinking that errata isn't worth paying for. That right there says everything you need to know about his commitment and competency. If you wonder why CGL is in the toilet and seems unable to put out product, look no further.

[Fuchs]

I got mentioned too, which seems to indicate they are unable to see the difference between critism of the game rules, metaplot and setting, and critism of their (lack of) ethics.

[Fucks]

Yeah, right.

[Draco_Argentum]

I got mentioned too, which seems to indicate they are unable to see the difference between critism of the game rules, metaplot and setting, and critism of their (lack of) ethics.

Actually it implies they're overly worried by criticism on a tiny gaming form. Unless I'm much mistaken you're someone who doesn't matter one wit in the SR stakes.

[Kaelik]

Yeah, right.

Still trying to figure out which one Fuchs is? It's okay, take your time, the differences are subtle.

[Fuchs]

I got mentioned too, which seems to indicate they are unable to see the difference between critism of the game rules, metaplot and setting, and critism of their (lack of) ethics.

Actually it implies they're overly worried by criticism on a tiny gaming form. Unless I'm much mistaken you're someone who doesn't matter one wit in the SR stakes.

That too. I'd have expected them to have a thicker skin - especially if working for such morally questionable people.

[Fucks]

Yeah, right.

Still trying to figure out which one Fuchs is? It's okay, take your time, the differences are subtle.

I figured that out already; still think he's an idiot. And annoying as hell.

[cthulhu]

Yeah, right.

Still trying to figure out which one Fuchs is? It's okay, take your time, the differences are subtle.

I figured that out already; still think he's an idiot. And annoying as hell.

You are mentally ill.

[Fucks]

[Otakusensei]

Yeah, right. :wtf:

Still trying to figure out which one Fuchs is? It's okay, take your time, the differences are subtle.

I figured that out already; still think he's an idiot. And annoying as hell. :tsk:

And yet here you are spending your time parodying him. You could be building a persona for yourself and contributing the the discourse in an attempt to over shadow the deficiencies you see in him. Instead you maintain a living shrine to the very things about him you claim to be so abhorred by.

It's kinda sad. But anyway, back to topic.

There was a lot of talk in those threads about the new product coming out, and everyone speaking as though that's going to happen. Real world, where are the books? Do we know if we're going to have to deal with more of the Jason Hardy era? Or is his own inability to preform his duty going to solve the problem?

Also, any news yet on the license extension, or one would hope, lack there of?

[Ancient History]

I haven't heard much. Production has been pretty damn slow, considering the state projects were in when I left...but that's not really terribly surprising, sadly. They've been padding output with "classic" releases and some minor pdf-only shit, so expect more of the same around Christmas week.

[Lokathor]

So, uh, Who's read anything in War! now that it's out?

[Stahlseele]

Dumpshock has.
And Rotbart Von Daining is ripping it to shreds it seems ^^
this is relevant to your interests:
http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=33712