Expedition to Demonwebs web enhancement - pain beyond belief

[josephbt]

[counturl=57]Anguish factor 20[/counturl]

The link for a cambion. Just read it. I, i have no words that can explain that.

[Endovior]

That... is ridiculous. The Cambion, as written, is the most over-LAed creature I've ever seen, paying LA+4 for +2 Natural Armor, +5 Str, +3 Dex and Con, -4 Wis, and -10 Cha. The fact that they can get huge stat bonuses for 'just' another point of LA (Marquis/Baron) is irrelevant at that point; that way you can pay LA+5 for +2 Natural Armor, +7 Str, +5 Dex and Con, +4 Int, +6 Wis. Not to mention the six racial hit dice it has pigging everything up. Theoretically, it should pick up a couple SLAs and other minor abilities that don't matter, but those aren't listed in the 'as characters' section.

Also... 'a Cambion with Intelligence 16 or higher typically takes levels in the Wizard class'. WTF? That's fvcking stupid. There is no reason an ECL 10 creature should take up magic, period.

[Brobdingnagian]

...

Are they even allowed to use odd-numbers for stat adjustments?

[travellersside]

What do they mean by "Favored Class: Assassin"?

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but don't Outsider HD provide 8+Int skill points, not the 2+Int that's quoted in the description.

Why the cambion PC that you can create lacks so many of the abilities that the NPC has, is utterly beyond me.

[Cielingcat]

1176463273[/unixtime]]What do they mean by "Favored Class: Assassin"?

Their favored class is a PrC.

[josephbt]

Why anyone would need a PrC as a favored class is beyond me. PrCs don't cause xp penalties.

[Cielingcat]

Exactly.

[MrWaeseL]

Everything about that monster is

[User3]

Sigh, Web Supplements should tell you who wrote them (ie, who was responsible for this Cambion stupidity?) - if for no other reason than so we can mock them horribly and demand WotC never commissions them to do anything again. We get a better product, they get rid of more stupid writers.

[Fwib]

A friend of mine has been playing a Cambion in our Planescape-esque game for about a decade. I sent him the link, because I am cruel.

[Judging__Eagle]

1176463603[/unixtime]]

1176463273[/unixtime]]What do they mean by "Favored Class: Assassin"?

Their favored class is a PrC.

Wrong.

They're obviously talking about the Dungenomicon Assasin base class. Cambion's may take racial substitution levels of the the Assasin class.

So, it's official now. Frank and K's stuff is accepted by WoTC designers as "official" material that they can and will reference.

We just need to see a reference to "rage dice", "Edge", "stab in the face", ".... is dumb" or "level appropriate abilities" to confirm this.

A dubious honour at best.

[Jonathan_Drain]

Ugh. Don't they do any editing on web enhancements? Looking just at the "Cambions as Characters" here:

- Odd numberered ability score bonuses. There's no precedent for this in all of third edition.

- Forty foot base speed without any explanation. Are they longer-legged than humans? Stronger-legged? Just plain quicker on their feet?

- Six "levels" of outsider; there's no such thing as outsider levels, only outsider hit dice. At any rate

- The skills thing, as mentioned.

- A natural armour bonus without explicit explanation, although I can probably ignore this since it's already obvious that the creature has tough skin.

- The favoured class thing, as mentioned. Should say something like "Rogue, although many cambions become assassins from a young age".

- His special abilites (listed in the statblock) aren't listed in the "Cambions as characters" section.

The level adjustment charges us heftily; we have a level ten equivalent character here with who we might consider has taken six levels with no class abilities, and afterward is charged another four for around +2 to hit and damage, +2HP/level, +2 or so to Fort and Reflex, balancing a -2 to Will and a Charisma doomed to dump stat (not like he was ever going to become a paladin or sorcerer, with that alignment and LA).

It's a fine monster, but utterly worthless to play one as a character. Sounds like someone knows the game, but isn't entirely in touch with the exacting rules third edition.

Give me a minute to draw up a monk assassin for comparison.

[Jonathan_Drain]

Alright. Lets compare this to a human monk for comparison. For now I'll ignore the claim that monk is too weak.

Ten levels gives us +7 BAB, +7 to all saves, +2 to AC, 60ft base speed, a bonus unarmed attack at 1d10+Str damage, improved evasion, and a few tidy things like slow fall, bonus feats, and immunity to disease. He has thirteen ranks in several good skills, and 10d8 hit dice (average 45HP plus 10x his Con.)

Our cambion player character, on the other hand, I'm going to round up his odd-numbered ability scores for the sake of tidiness. He gains +6 BAB adding up to +9 melee or +8 ranged, +7/+7/+3 to saves, and +2 to AC (+4 counting his Dex). He's not as fast, but he can move as quickly in heavy armour. He has a few feats. He has 9 ranks in good skills, with a +2 higher than the monk in his rogueish skills, and 6d8 HD for an average of 27+6x Con, although his higher starting con raises that to 39HP.

He's roughly on par with a monk of his level adjustment, give or take a little. However, the statblock at the beginning includes several extra abilities that, I can only assume, were left out. Uncanny dodge, DR 5/good or magic, immunity to electricity or poison, resistance 10 to acid, fold and fire, SR 10+HD, the ability to sneak without penalty in heavy armour, an alternate form, ignores chaotic and evil DR, telepathy, and some spell-like abilities which can include invisibility seven times daily.

[Catharz]

Wow.

[MrWaeseL]

+7/+7/+3 to saves,

Outsiders have all good saves.

[ObiWayneKenobi]

The "Cambions as Characters" statblock is an error and was missed during editing. From what I've been told, WotC hires folks based on their expertise with a specific area (in this case, the "old-school" fluff/history of Cambions) and doesn't really care if they know how the 3.5 rules work.

It should be addressed soon on their site.

[Count Arioch the 28th]

Heh, this is the best web enhancement ever!

[Cielingcat]

1176560451[/unixtime]]The "Cambions as Characters" statblock is an error and was missed during editing. From what I've been told, WotC hires folks based on their expertise with a specific area (in this case, the "old-school" fluff/history of Cambions) and doesn't really care if they know how the 3.5 rules work.

It should be addressed soon on their site.

What the hell? How can they be that stupid? That's like hiring an artist to design a building because you want it to look nice, instead of hiring either:
A: An artist who is also an architect
B: An architect who is also an artist
or
C: Both an artist and an architect.

[ObiWayneKenobi]

Indeed, but that's how it works. I asked Penny Williams and that's essentially what she said.. they'll hire someone based on their "expertise" with something, but they "aren't always up to speed with the 3.5 rules" and then they attempt to "fix" half the stuff after it's been submitted. It doesn't make a lick of sense to me either.

[Cielingcat]

I am starting a business. It shall produce software. I shall hire people based on their ability to use a computer; if they "aren't up to speed with programming" I will attempt to fix some of it. I will then sell this maybe-usable software for $30.

[ObiWayneKenobi]

Yeap that's pretty much what it looks like. Of course that's going by what I was told... I might have been given the standard stock response. But still, this kind of shit is fvcking unexcuseable. They REALLY need to quit with this "hire freelancers to write everything" bullshit, or at least make sure that the guys they're hiring actually.. you know, PLAY THE FVCKING GAME!

[MrWaeseL]

They should hire some people from here or Nifty (in fact, they already have). That should fix things almost overnight.

[Cielingcat]

Only if allowed to rewrite the system. Since they would probably not allow that, the best we could hope for is that the game would not become more unbalanced.

[josephbt]

The New and Improved

WotC Web Denhancements

• 
  
• See you characters get turned to crap!!
  
• Play new and exciting races like The Sponge, A Doormat, The all time favorite - The Toilet Plunger
  
• All new substitution levels - Swap 2 Wizzard levels, gain 1 Warrior level
  
• Download one now and we'll send a Swiftblade PrC freee!!!
  

This special offer - only on WotC.


General roleplayer's warning - may cause headache, diziness and anger. Before using consult your DM.

[Count Arioch the 28th]

1176587356[/unixtime]]They should hire some people from here or Nifty (in fact, they already have). That should fix things almost overnight.

I will only write for WotC if they can convince Doug Winger to do the artwork for what I write.

That would most likely be the best D&D supplement ever written!