Pathfinder Is Still Bad

Psychic Robot · Post by **Psychic Robot** » Thu Feb 10, 2011 11:27 pm

I'm pretty sure that's what you'd be doing as a wizard, too.

K · Post by K » Thu Feb 10, 2011 11:29 pm

hogarth wrote:
K wrote:
RelentlessImp wrote:Regarding Beguiler...

Between 1/3rd and 1/2 its spell list are [mind-affecting] spells. Sure, that immunity's hard to come by early on, but do you really want to play a class that has that many spells negated by an easy to acquire immunity later on?
Why not? You can cast all the spells of a level, so at worse you still have 2/3rds of your spell list that can be used. A Wizard or Sorcerer would love to claim that
Not really 2/3 of a spell list; more like one or two decent spells and a lot of filler.

I'm playing a level 5 beguiler, and I find myself casting Glitterdust over and over and over again, with the occasional Color Spray or Invisibility thrown in for variety. Against mindless enemies, Color Spray is out. It's not really that exciting.

Why aren't you using figments?

hogarth · Post by **hogarth** » Thu Feb 10, 2011 11:34 pm

K wrote:Why aren't you using figments?

Against mindless creatures? Sure, but we haven't fought many in our game. So it's mostly Glitterdust and a little Color Spray (and earlier, Sleep) as I noted above.

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Fri Feb 11, 2011 12:20 am

hogarth wrote:
K wrote:Why aren't you using figments?
Against mindless creatures? Sure, but we haven't fought many in our game. So it's mostly Glitterdust and a little Color Spray (and earlier, Sleep) as I noted above.

Works fine against mindfull creatures too.

Lokathor · Post by **Lokathor** » Fri Feb 11, 2011 10:31 am

Played a level 3 beguiler (whisper gnome) in a game where the adventure location included almost exclusively giant insects and skeletons. Sucked balls man.

RobbyPants · Post by **RobbyPants** » Fri Feb 11, 2011 2:38 pm

I think the first three levels are more rough. At 4th level, at least you can spam glitterdust twice as often as a wizard.

hogarth · Post by **hogarth** » Fri Feb 11, 2011 4:00 pm

Psychic Robot wrote:I'm pretty sure that's what you'd be doing as a wizard, too.

I've never had a 5th level wizard who memorized Glitterdust five times. YMMV.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Fri Feb 11, 2011 7:42 pm

Lokathor wrote:Played a level 3 beguiler (whisper gnome) in a game where the adventure location included almost exclusively giant insects and skeletons. Sucked balls man.

How? Silence + Silent Image basically makes you automatically win against unlimited numbers of skeletons or vermin.

-Username17

RobbyPants · Post by **RobbyPants** » Fri Feb 11, 2011 7:44 pm

Where's he getting Silence from? Another caster?

Daiba · Post by **Daiba** » Fri Feb 11, 2011 7:54 pm

Whisper gnome, I think, and then naturally off the Beguiler spell list at CL 4.

RobbyPants · Post by **RobbyPants** » Fri Feb 11, 2011 8:05 pm

Well, yeah, but Lokathor complaining about his 3rd level beguiler. I guess the party cleric could have it at 3rd level. They could certainly plan for it if they knew what was coming up. It's just that I have to make assumptions for that to work.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Fri Feb 11, 2011 8:10 pm

RobbyPants wrote:Well, yeah, but Lokathor complaining about his 3rd level beguiler. I guess the party cleric could have it at 3rd level. They could certainly plan for it if they knew what was coming up. It's just that I have to make assumptions for that to work.

Whisper Gnome grants silence as a spell-like. It's just a thing they do.

-Username17

Lokathor · Post by **Lokathor** » Fri Feb 11, 2011 8:31 pm

While you could win by making a silent image of a wall and then shooting from behind the wall or something, none of that was available. The rest of the party was goliath wrestlers, monkey-man shamans (OA), elven rogues, other elven swashbucklers, and things like that.

Basically, a giant beetle would pop up, they'd all begin to stab it fanatically in melee, and then I'd be not able to do much to it at all. I wouldn't die, but I wouldn't be able to add anything either.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Fri Feb 11, 2011 8:53 pm

Lokathor wrote:While you could win by making a silent image of a wall and then shooting from behind the wall or something, none of that was available. The rest of the party was goliath wrestlers, monkey-man shamans (OA), elven rogues, other elven swashbucklers, and things like that.

Basically, a giant beetle would pop up, they'd all begin to stab it fanatically in melee, and then I'd be not able to do much to it at all. I wouldn't die, but I wouldn't be able to add anything either.

OK, that's stupid. Your primary problem is that the rest of the party was unable to stop themselves from Leroy Jenkinsing long enough to automatically win an encounter? Yeah, I guess if the rest of the party refuses to use ranged attacks on otherwise helpless giant beetles, your character can't contribute much. I don't see that as a problem with the class though.

-Username17

TOZ · Post by **TOZ** » Fri Feb 11, 2011 8:55 pm

Is it worth $6 to find out how badly written this is?

101 8th Level Spells gives you—yes, you guessed it—101 8th level spells that will help you realize the vision you’ve had for your spellcaster. Wholly compatible with the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, 101 8th Level Spells adds new choices to your character’s spell list without breaking the game.

Juton · Post by **Juton** » Fri Feb 11, 2011 9:09 pm

TOZ wrote:Is it worth $6 to find out how badly written this is?

101 8th Level Spells gives you—yes, you guessed it—101 8th level spells that will help you realize the vision you’ve had for your spellcaster. Wholly compatible with the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, 101 8th Level Spells adds new choices to your character’s spell list without breaking the game.

If you want to see shit I can show you mine for free.

Xur · Post by **Xur** » Fri Feb 11, 2011 9:52 pm

Seems like they did this for all spell levels...

RobbyPants · Post by **RobbyPants** » Fri Feb 11, 2011 10:32 pm

FrankTrollman wrote:
RobbyPants wrote:Well, yeah, but Lokathor complaining about his 3rd level beguiler. I guess the party cleric could have it at 3rd level. They could certainly plan for it if they knew what was coming up. It's just that I have to make assumptions for that to work.
Whisper Gnome grants silence as a spell-like. It's just a thing they do.

-Username17

Ah. I totally missed that when Daiba said that. Yeah, it makes a lot more sense now.

I do remember whisper gnomes as being awesome from what I've read, but I don't own the book that they're in.

Slade · Post by **Slade** » Fri Feb 11, 2011 11:11 pm

The 101 1st level spells had a few gems.
1) Shadow Weapon: You create a shadow replica of any weapon you wish, you are proficient with the shadow version, but enemy gets will save each time you get hit (succeed 1/2 damage).
Since enemies start with low will saves, it stays relevant for a while.
2) Blossoming Footsteps combines nicely with Entangle: What was that about needing plants? Bam, now there are plants despite the bad ground/soil.
Entangle away.
3) Hidden Shelter is a camoflauged house (hard to spot for enemies) that you can stay/sleep. 1 week/level...not sure why duration so long though.

101 2nd level:
1) Dimensional Hop: they stole this from 3.5?
2) Nightsnare: single target is sleep, will save, no HD limit

101 3rd:
1) Toady : baleful ploymorph with low duration (combat only spell)

101 4th:
1) Armor Plating: gives AC bonus/DR
2) Multi-image: better Mirror Image
3) Warriors Insight: Like Tensar's transformation but keep spellcasting

101 5th: sucked
So he is much better at low level spells.
I am wondering how badly the 8th will fair though.

TOZ · Post by **TOZ** » Sat Feb 12, 2011 5:48 am

On the subject of spells, has anyone done up a PDF like the Feat Bible for them? Collected all of the 3.5 spells in one place, I mean.

Juton · Post by **Juton** » Sat Feb 12, 2011 5:53 am

imarvintpa.com comes closest, I think. It's a searchable index, it contains most 3.5 stuff but I think it's missing a few of the later books.

hogarth · Post by **hogarth** » Sat Feb 12, 2011 1:33 pm

TOZ wrote:On the subject of spells, has anyone done up a PDF like the Feat Bible for them? Collected all of the 3.5 spells in one place, I mean.

Crystalkeep used to do this, but it looks like they're shut down now.

Here's another site that has some fairly comprehensive lists: World of Therra

Xur · Post by **Xur** » Sat Feb 12, 2011 1:46 pm

hogarth wrote: Crystalkeep used to do this, but it looks like they're shut down now.

Well, there are other places where the files are still available. Go to 4shared.com and search for "dnd3.5index" and you'll find all the lists.

angelfromanotherpin · Post by **angelfromanotherpin** » Sat Feb 12, 2011 2:25 pm

Crystal Keep moved their files to here.

TOZ · Post by **TOZ** » Sat Feb 12, 2011 3:38 pm

Looks like they're all just name lists. No one has taken the time to compile a list with the entire spell description included. Can't blame them, since it's illegal and all. Plus a shit ton of work.