The Shadowrun Situation

unnamednpc · Post by **unnamednpc** » Mon Feb 28, 2011 6:27 pm

Meanwhile, at CGL-Headquarters...
the great Shadowrun-Scorched-Earth-Milkathon continues.

sabs · Post by **sabs** » Mon Feb 28, 2011 6:45 pm

For those of us who work for stupid companies with draconian proxy filtering.

Can you summarize?

Maxus · Post by **Maxus** » Mon Feb 28, 2011 6:54 pm

Runner’s Toolkit! Pre-order now! Buy PDF box set now! Plus get the free GM screen!
By jhardy | Published: February 28, 2011

You’ve waited and waited, and it’s finally here–at least in electronic form! Runner’s Toolkit is available for download now! If you want the print version, you can pre-order! And if you want a PDF version of the new GM screen–well, you can get it! Now! For free!

They're looking a little desperate there. With every sentence having an exclamation point and all.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Mon Feb 28, 2011 6:57 pm

sabs wrote:For those of us who work for stupid companies with draconian proxy filtering.

Can you summarize?

Sure. They are taking pre-orders for Runner's Toolkit. You know, the thing that Ancient History had finished a year ago and change. The new version will have a different version of PACKs. It also has a bunch of copy/pasta such as an old copy of On The Run and a booklet with the equipment tables from the backs of the core books.

Basically they are selling Runner's Toolkit, but instead of having a bunch of original material... it doesn't.

-Username17

adamjury · Post by **adamjury** » Mon Feb 28, 2011 7:04 pm

FrankTrollman wrote:Basically they are selling Runner's Toolkit, but instead of having a bunch of original material... it doesn't.

It looks like exactly the stuff that the Toolkit was always advertised as.

RiotGearEpsilon · Post by **RiotGearEpsilon** » Mon Feb 28, 2011 7:19 pm

FrankTrollman wrote:The new version will have a different version of PACKs.

What is/are PACKs?

Stahlseele · Post by **Stahlseele** » Mon Feb 28, 2011 7:26 pm

A Kind of quick creation system for NPC's

Otakusensei · Post by **Otakusensei** » Mon Feb 28, 2011 7:57 pm

So this is the hard backed GM screen that I've been waiting for? With that internal layout? Fuck.

Look at all that wasted fucking space. Isn't there anyone at this company who cares enough to build a really useful product? Haven't they had enough time? Even the SR4 screen I use now has more info on it. It doesn't even look good, I could have cut a pasted it together in an afternoon.

And why not go the D&D route and fold the screen on the short side? Personal I know, but I love that format. Which makes this feel like an anachronism as well as negligent. Like they aren't paying attention to other games and other companies and innovating their products.

I guess I shouldn't be as pissed off as I am. But this is THE product I've been waiting years for and now it's getting released by a company I don't want to support. But damn it, I would have bought it if they had done it right. I wanted them to do it right. Fuck!

Shadowrun deserves better than this. The fans deserve better than this.

TheFlatline · Post by **TheFlatline** » Mon Feb 28, 2011 8:25 pm

RiotGearEpsilon wrote:
FrankTrollman wrote:The new version will have a different version of PACKs.
What is/are PACKs?

You can find a rough, not-polished version of PACKs that AncientHistory wrote if you poke around (He released it publicly for free, along with a lot of other goodies he was working on) so you can check it out directly.

It's basically a grab bag of bundles that you throw together to get not-quite-balanced NPCs out in a hurry, so that every NPC guard doesn't have exactly the same stats, nor do you have to spend time generating a full character if you want an NPC.

Ancient History · Post by **Ancient History** » Mon Feb 28, 2011 11:08 pm

The Original PACKS.

I haven't looked at Malachi's version. I caught a few peeks of it in development and it looked like they were going a slightly different route than I did. I still have no idea why they kept the name, except maybe they had already advertised that Runner's Toolkit would have PACKS.

TheFlatline · Post by **TheFlatline** » Mon Feb 28, 2011 11:52 pm

Ancient History wrote:The Original PACKS.

I haven't looked at Malachi's version. I caught a few peeks of it in development and it looked like they were going a slightly different route than I did. I still have no idea why they kept the name, except maybe they had already advertised that Runner's Toolkit would have PACKS.

Looks like you polished the hell out of it since I last looked through it. It looks pretty badass.

Ancient History · Post by **Ancient History** » Tue Mar 01, 2011 1:46 am

I opened it up to fanproofing and a nice poster called Platinum offered to lay it out. Turned out very well.

Otakusensei · Post by **Otakusensei** » Tue Mar 01, 2011 3:59 am

I wonder if there's some way to edit up paste-over versions of your released bits to fix Corp Guide, Runner's Toolkit and these other products. Maybe someone who knows a thing or two about layout could make some fan edited bootlegs.

It wouldn't be legal, but it would be cyberpunk.

Fucks · Post by **Fucks** » Tue Mar 01, 2011 8:59 am

Otakusensei wrote:So this is the hard backed GM screen that I've been waiting for? With that internal layout? Fuck.

Link? All I've found is the screen's outside.

Wesley Street · Post by **Wesley Street** » Tue Mar 01, 2011 2:58 pm

With constant rules revisions, pre-designed GM screens are useless within a couple of years. Unless you're new to the game (which is the consumer I would imagine Runner's Toolkit is geared for) or a completest.

I bought a World's Greatest GM Screen, mock up my own reference sheets, change it up for the different games I run, and I haven't gone back. Hammer Dog even offers a landscape version.

I downloaded RT yesterday for the PACKS system. And unless I missed something, files were not included for the actual screen.

EDIT: Looks like the GM screen files are available for free.

Otakusensei · Post by **Otakusensei** » Wed Mar 02, 2011 6:16 pm

Wesley Street wrote:With constant rules revisions, pre-designed GM screens are useless within a couple of years. Unless you're new to the game (which is the consumer I would imagine Runner's Toolkit is geared for) or a completest.

I bought a World's Greatest GM Screen, mock up my own reference sheets, change it up for the different games I run, and I haven't gone back. Hammer Dog even offers a landscape version.

I downloaded RT yesterday for the PACKS system. And unless I missed something, files were not included for the actual screen.

EDIT: Looks like the GM screen files are available for free.

Thank you for that link. They have my money.

RiotGearEpsilon · Post by **RiotGearEpsilon** » Wed Mar 02, 2011 6:43 pm

Wesley Street wrote:Looks like the GM screen files are available for free.

Well that's genuinely decent.

Otakusensei · Post by **Otakusensei** » Wed Mar 02, 2011 8:21 pm

RiotGearEpsilon wrote:
Wesley Street wrote:Looks like the GM screen files are available for free.
Well that's genuinely decent.

I thought the same thing until I got a look at the inside. While I love the styling of SR4A, they needed to drop it in the interest of packing the back page with as much data as they could. And I know their purpose wasn't aesthetics, because the layout of the tables hurts my eyes.

Great artwork though. Totally stealing that for my own GM screen

Wesley Street · Post by **Wesley Street** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 3:47 pm

Otakusensei wrote:While I love the styling of SR4A, they needed to drop it in the interest of packing the back page with as much data as they could. And I know their purpose wasn't aesthetics, because the layout of the tables hurts my eyes.

That's a good point. The panel interior layouts are a prime example of poor-to-mediocre understanding of basic design principles. All of the panels (except for one [which boggles my mind]) use a two column grid, when a horizontal approach serves the information more effectively. Tables are simply stacked on top of each other in a center alignment. There's a lot of unnecessary padding. "Form following function" was ignored when this was put together.

I don't have a problem with data presentation adhering to SR4A branding as long as it isn't at the expense of the data itself. But I don't think that's the problem. The problem is that another designer attempted to emulate what Adam created in SR4A without understanding the underlying principles.

I'm probably the only one who even cares about this.

adamjury · Post by **adamjury** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 10:40 pm

I can't be damned to pull up my old files to see what if anything changed from my drafts of the GM Screen, but "jamming the screen full of info" was not my goal. Proximity of related information was a bigger goal.

Building GM screens is a bitch.

TheFlatline · Post by **TheFlatline** » Fri Mar 04, 2011 12:31 am

Yeah there's a surprising amount of empty space on the back of that GM screen.

Otakusensei · Post by **Otakusensei** » Fri Mar 04, 2011 12:34 am

adamjury wrote:I can't be damned to pull up my old files to see what if anything changed from my drafts of the GM Screen, but "jamming the screen full of info" was not my goal. Proximity of related information was a bigger goal.

Building GM screens is a bitch.

Word.

But you have to admit that the goal should be to present a given amount of information in the most easily understandable and readily available way. That given can be a big one, I tend toward information overload, but the tables as presented on that sheet just plain don't look good. I wouldn't pin it on you, Adam, because I've seen you work with negative space and I know you know how to use it right.

That it's the way things are going to the printer is just more fuel for disappointment.

Fucks · Post by **Fucks** » Wed Mar 16, 2011 5:15 am

Attitude PDF is up for sale:

http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product_i ... _id=89433&

Lokathor · Post by **Lokathor** » Wed Mar 16, 2011 5:41 am

What about that book of critters? any good?

Wesley Street · Post by **Wesley Street** » Wed Mar 16, 2011 4:14 pm

Lokathor wrote:What about that book of critters? any good?

Running Wild or the PDF-follow up Parazoology?