"Attack Action"

[AlphaNerd]

So, how long does an attack action take? No, really. It's not a well defined thing. The obvious thing is that an attack action is an attack, so if you have ways of getting more than one attack, you can make more than one in a round. However, the SRD's verbage on actions such as disarm say "As a melee attack, you may", and do not use the phrase "attack action".

Further, the SRD lists:

Attack (melee) No
Attack (unarmed) Yes
Attack (ranged) Yes

all as standard actions. The glossary is quiet on the matter, noting only that "Actions are divided into the following categories... full-round actions, standard actions, move actions, and free actions.", which means its not even updated.

The reason I'm asking is that

A creature with a gaze attack can actively attempt to use its gaze as an attack action.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilit ... [br][br]So, can a Medusa (with a +6 BAB) use her gaze attack twice in one round via her iterative attacks, or is she stuck with one use per round? The justification for interpreting "attack action" as a specific standard action is that it means you can do stuff like use expertise, or whatever.

It seems to me that the RAI (at least) would indicate that "attack action" = "attack", but I was curious what others thought.

I'm not sure where this distinction might apply in F&K's work, but it is at least used in "Low Comedy", the Jester's ability.

[Cielingcat]

It's also used for his Fire Mage and his ability to throw down level appropriate damage.

[Brobdingnagian]

It seems like it means a standard action that's... used to attack? So, I don't think a Medusa can use her iterative attacks to gain extra gaze attacks... At least, no more than you could cast a spell (standard action) as the third part of your full-attack action.

Hmm... it is an interesting point though. Reminds me of something...

[User3]

You use attack actions in a grapple, too.

[User3]

1178173853[/unixtime]]It seems like it means a standard action that's... used to attack? So, I don't think a Medusa can use her iterative attacks to gain extra gaze attacks... At least, no more than you could cast a spell (standard action) as the third part of your full-attack action.

Hmm... it is an interesting point though. Reminds me of something...

The Medusa can in fact get multiple gaze attacks.

The discussion of full attack specifically mentions that you aren't committed until after the second attack - the first attack could just be a standard action, or could be turned into a full attack.

It further implies that 'attack action' is each attack. So if you can do something as an attack action, you can do so whenever it has an attack. At least for iteratives.

What is very unclear in the rules is whether natural attacks work in the same way. (This is a huge problem for grappling, since most grapplers have natural attacks).

[AlphaNerd]

It further implies that 'attack action' is each attack. So if you can do something as an attack action, you can do so whenever it has an attack. At least for iteratives.

Where does it say that? Because, as far as I can tell, the text really does mean for "attack action" to mean an attack that uses a standard action.

Evidence? There is an "Attack" action listed as a standard action. The text of Full Attack reads "After your first attack, you can decide...", not "After your first attack action, you can decide"

The Spring Attack and Shot on the Run Feats both say "When using the attack action with a [type] weapon...".

Combat Expertise reads "When you use the attack action or the full attack action in melee", which suggests that attack != attack action.

I guess that's something that they (re)defined in 3.5, maybe? I guess not. That makes it pretty clear:

The attack action is a standard action

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Now, that said, I'm pretty sure that F&K intend the use of the word to be synonymous with attack. For instance:

Expertise
You leverage your combat skill into defense rather than offense.
Requirement: You must make an attack action and have a BAB of at least +1. You need not specifically attack an enemy.
Effect: Before making an attack roll, you may take an attack penalty of up to your BAB on this attack and all further attacks until your next turn, and gain an equal Dodge Bonus to AC. You may only use this option once per turn.

[Username17]

The Attack Action is really poorly defined in th PHB despite its importance.

Here's how it works:

• An attack action can be spent to make an attack. Or to make a special attack (Disarm, Grapple, etc.) Or to use a number of other abilities.

But the really weird thing about Attack Actions is not how they are spent, but how they are bought. You get an attack action to spend whenever you declare an attack (which uses up a Standard Action for that turn), or when you declare a second attack (which retroactively upgrades your expenditure of a standard action to a full round action). You also get an attack action every time your opponent provokes an Attack of Opportunity (though this attack action is further restricted to melee attacks).

Attack Actions, like 5' steps, have a quantum cost. Your 5' step doesn't cost you a move action if you don't take any other movement during the turn. If you take another move action, your 5' step retroactively cost you a move action as well. Similarly, an attack action may set you back a standard action or be a part of a Full Round action.

Gaze Attacks are unfortunately undefined. Some Gaze Attacks go off automatically once per turn against all enemies in range, and some don't and few are marked one way or the other. I also honestly do not know if a Gaze Attack can be used in place of a restricted attack action such as that allowed by an attack of opportunity. I think so, but the rules never really say.

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That's the cornerstone of the Foil Action action. Because an attack action can be aborted retroactively to a full attack action, the Foil Action ability of Fighters amounts to little more than a Miss Chance when dealing ith enemies who are literally attacking.

-Username17

[AlphaNerd]

An attack action can be spent to make an attack. Or to make a special attack (Disarm, Grapple, etc.) Or to use a number of other abilities.

Respectfully, I disagree. Do you have any real rules justification for this? I agree that's how it *should* be, but I don't think that's what the RAW say.

An attack of opportunity is a single melee attack

As a melee attack...

A creature with a gaze attack can actively attempt to use its gaze as an attack action. The creature simply chooses a target within range, and that opponent must attempt a saving throw.

If attack = attack action, it's clear that the Medusa gets to use this twice in a round, if not, then it takes a standard action.

I'm pretty sure that the supplements you write assume attack action = attack, but that doesn't mean the rest of the world agrees.

[User3]

The SRD offers this passage:

These attack forms substitute for a melee attack, not an action. As melee attacks, they can be used once in an attack or charge action, one or more times in a full attack action, or even as an attack of opportunity.

It's the second footnote in the little table here: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/action ... [br]That's pretty clear.