Bobikus wrote:People talk about making appropriate high level plots a lot in these discussions. What would be some good examples of level 16+ plots and how high level NPCs would protect themselves thoroughly against Scry and Die tactics or other high level means of assault?
For the low-low price of 5000 gp and 2500 xp, you could have a 6 story, 21,600 square foot structure encased in a permanent Private Sanctum and Forbiddance effect (+password damage bypass). No scrying, no detecting thoughts, no teleporting, dimension dooring, astral travelling, plane shifting, or summoning.
None of this will stop Discern Location--or that mythical Know Thing Plot Coupon spell HJ keeps going on about--but the information granted (Skeletor is in Castle No-Scrying You Jerkface or Can't Find Him He's Mindblanked) is of dubious utility.
Also, what Roy said.
Swordslinger wrote:violence in the media wrote:
I agree that D&D could use better rules for quickly and fairly resolving the efficacy of PC-directed minion duties. Though, it's nice to be on the other side of the quest/mission equation from time to time. Just because you're telling some lowbies to go handle somthing that you're too busy to deal with doesn't mean that you don't have things to do yourself. Maybe I played too much Suikoden in the past, but I enjoy that aspect of assigning NPCs to go do things.
You can do that, but it's entirely DM fiat, and therefore it's a roleplaying thing, not actually something that should be an ability. When you decide to send your minions on a quest, the DM decides if they succeed or what happens.
That's why I said this sort of thing needs better rules, to eliminate the fiat/MTP aspect of it. I once played in a game where these minions were the party's alternate characters, and when we sent them out to do stuff, the MC ran a mini-adventure of it (half-to full-session length) and that was how success or failure happened. Granted, that was back in college when we all had the free time to blow game sessions on things like that.
The other party responsible for this failure though is the game/module designers who don't take abilities into account when writing the world. Every location, badguy, and plot that those guys write out should have detailed information about how they're warded or protected from various things that other people in the world can demonstrably do.
So, every bad guy needs a way to nullify the checklist of plot breakers, so the DM ends up just wasting time thinking of ways for him to beat them. And if you forget one, well flush your adventure down the toilet.
Fuck you novice DM, you never considered how your castle of death would beat a misdirection + greater invisibility + flight combo!
Of course, then DMs just said "fuck it" and dynamically adjusted the world to compensate for the stuff they forgot. In the end just leading to a bunch of powers regulated by DM fiat. The end result of this situation is players don't even bother taking those powers anymore, because they can't count on them. Alternately your DM just says fuck it and starts over at low level again. Is there any surprise how it's hard to find a DM for a high level 3.5 game?
It's better to hand out sane powers you expect people to use as intended rather than powers that ruin the game unless they're countered. I'd rather take weaker powers that I can at least count on.
A couple of things.
1. Yes, it would be better if some of the powers were more sensibly written, both to provide more consistent implementation and to avoid the wrath of the banhammer.
2. Having a badguy or adventure get totally rolled is something that happens. You really can't throw a fit when it does.
3. Conversely, if counters exist, it's not unreasonable to assume that enemies make use of them when they're capable of it. I mean, do people get pissed off if the king has a poison taster?
4. If the MC would a little time from his busy plot-writing and adventure-crafting schedule and ask himself some rational questions from the POV of a badguy (They have
swords. I don't want to be stabbed. How do I stop
swords?) then some of these problems would solve themselves. Am I missing something, are novice DMs somehow incapable of learning?