Fuck it, D&D is doomed. Recommend some alternatives!

[Avoraciopoctules]

I tried making a character once. I ended up with somebody almost useless right off the bat, but who would make a bunch of magic gauntlets that shot devastating lightning bolts when triggered once he had some downtime. The plan was to try and find some way to harness the electrical energy after ensuring the defense of the cabal. Never actually played that game though, so my knowledge is pretty limited.

[mean_liar]

Ars Magica is a fantastic game, but I really wish it had add-ons and support that took it beyond its Mythic Europe milieu.

[RiotGearEpsilon]

Nobilis just came out with a new edition.

[TheFlatline]

It's not entirely free form
There are spells with specific effects, and there are guidelines for success effects for doing spontaneous magic.

If memory serves, it's what they based the original World of Darkness Mage magic system off of.

Though I won't compare power levels, since I never read Ars.

As for Warhammer 3rd, I haven't looked at it yet, but it caught flak on release for being dependent on decks of cards & tokens & shit. I'm not personally thrilled with the idea of needing custom dice to play the game. They run about 10 bucks a set.

It seems to have recovered from that, but it's definitely a FFG offering, with a lot of bling.

It's also 100 bucks retail (though I can find it for 60), so it's a little pricey, but at least it's sort of like a boxed set.

[sabs]

yes, it is what they based the original world of darkness mage magic system off of.

Except in Ars Magica:
You have 50-100 levels of 'effect'
you have:
5 Arts (Creo, Intelligo, Muto, Perdo, Rego)
9 Forms (Animal, Aqua, Auram, Corpus, Mentem, Imaginem, Fuego, Terram, Vim)
I feel like I'm missing a couple.

It's WAY way more defined and delineated than Mage, AND it actually has stuff Magic can't do. Unlike the Mage mother may I destroy the plot magic system.

[wotmaniac]

Savage Worlds, what little I've played it, seem pretty fun.
From what I understand, the fantasy supplement is fairly solid.

It's a pretty bare-bones system, that claims "fast, furious, fun"; and as far as I can tell, it delivers.

[mean_liar]

Savage Worlds is a pretty bad system. I'd play it, and it does play quickly, but I didn't find it terribly compelling.

[TheFlatline]

yes, it is what they based the original world of darkness mage magic system off of.

Except in Ars Magica:
You have 50-100 levels of 'effect'
you have:
5 Arts (Creo, Intelligo, Muto, Perdo, Rego)
9 Forms (Animal, Aqua, Auram, Corpus, Mentem, Imaginem, Fuego, Terram, Vim)
I feel like I'm missing a couple.

It's WAY way more defined and delineated than Mage, AND it actually has stuff Magic can't do. Unlike the Mage mother may I destroy the plot magic system.

As I said, I can't actually comment on it, as I've never read/played it.

[Juton]

I've played an adaptation of an old D&D module in Savage Worlds, it played out OK mechanically. The characters though didn't seem very D&D, there was no real caster/non-caster distinction and those characters who styled themselves Wizards or Clerics had a very limited set of powers. While it may make a fine fantasy RPG it doesn't do dungeon crawls as well as D&D, for some that's a deal breaker.

Likewise the fantasy version of Mutants and Masterminds (Wizards & Warriors?) worked for us mechanically but had a completely different feel from D&D.

One thing that D&D does well is give lots of little power-ups between levels in the form of loot. Some players are really attracted to a game where their reward centre gets pushed several times a session.

[ETortoise]

After several false starts with my old gaming group I've gotten into a Burning Wheel game. So far it's been a lot of fun. It's fantasy, but not D&D fantasy (although there are some threads on the messageboard on running old-school adventures, "Burning Thac0"

However, as I said, I tried to play it a couple times before and was unsuccessful. It wasn't until I joined this group that was experienced with the game that it clicked.

[mhensley]

I have high hopes for the DCC rpg coming out later this year. Goodman says the beta will be out in June.

[Judging__Eagle]

Why "still supported"? I would think that a dead system with no more supplements and the internet's vast cataloging of its peculiarities and shortcomings would make for a more long-term solution than a system that will inevitably stop being supported.

Agreed. While I was disappointed at first when 4.0 came out, I realized that I would no longer feel compelled to shell out money for books.

Wait... you weren't disappointed before it came out? I know I was. 3.5 Was just a series of nearly useless books to me before the system was no longer supported.

I think that's really the point. I was just as eager to see if 4.0 would blow 3.5 out of the water. It didn't, in a massive way, it was like a dud against the massive cannonball that the Tomes had on my D&D games; it doesn't really improve anything; except for give some better ideas for power/timing mechanics.

[PhoneLobster]

I'm still waiting for that e20 system that "all the cool kids who loved d20 modern and star wars saga edition have been playing for ages" to come out.

It must be SO awesome what with it's time traveling powers into the past allowing all those dudes to have already been playing it for ages now even though it hasn't actually been written.

Man those Briliantgameologists are going to be laughing at me about how wrong I was about d20 modern, saga edition and that G M Sarli wanker when he finally releases that perfected version of all his so far made out of ass RPG rules sets! Releases it RIGHT INTO THE PAST THAT IS!

It's going to be so awesome that he hasn't even bothered releasing it on time at all! Even though he has had actual suckers already pay him to do that! He is confident it's awesomeness will just travel the extra bit back into the past to be released to the release date... then be released into the further past from there!

And he will totally get on that whole writing that rules set he was already paid to write... as soon as he finishes calling for further suckers to pay him more for it and finishes writing articles about how to motivate yourself to write...

...any second now...

edit: Though he could really afford to waste a bit more time and fix up whatever the fuck is wrong with the security certification of his fucking web site while he is sitting around twiddling his thumbs.

[tzor]

I've been out of the loop for a while, but just before he died, Gygax was trying to link up with Troll Lord Games Castles and Crusades ... is that a viable alternative?

[tussock]

C&C is pretty oldschool. It's basically remaking AD&D with a very streamlined d20 system under the hood, using a simple stat-focused skill and save system (of level + stat mod (stat-9)/3) and some handwaving in the DCs. Fairly freeform in the nature of what your characters can try, you just want to stick to your chosen stat focus.

Nice little modern, lightweight D&D game, but there's no character-building mini-game or anything. Roll dice, pick class, race, prime stats, gear, spells, and go.

[Shazbot79]

I'll chime in for Legends of Anglerre...it's a Fate based fantasy game...so you have to be able to wrap your head around aspects...but it has a fair amount of crunch and world-building tools.