Warlock (Take 5, Version 12, Set 3, Section 6, Clause 2)

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Thu Apr 01, 2010 8:11 pm

For Valor wrote:1) Would this class use ASF? I mean, the standard 'lock does, and even though this guy doesn't "Invoke" in the same way... well, I was just wondering if I could throw him in Full Plate and not have to use Mage Armor.

It's an SLA, so you can totally wear fullplate. But since you don't have prof, you take a -10 penalty to attack rolls, including RTA rolls, which are pretty integral to instantaneous conjurations or other instantaneous attack spells.

At level 7 you want to be throwing out Orbs or Enervations, which require RTAs, so a -10 to that is going to suck.

For Valor wrote:3) I kind of see the point in requiring an Invoker to watch the Spell being cast, but the whole thing about not being able to understand it via scroll or spellbook (you said scroll earlier, and I'm applying this to the spellbook too)... well, why not? It makes sense for a decently intelligent (or after 2nd level, decently wise) Invoker to sit down, study a spellbook, and walk away with an understanding of how the spells fundamentally work. It'd need a Spellcraft check, as with watching a Spell being cast, but could work similarly.

Because they are intuitive, not smart. Practical not theoretical. Because WBL doesn't exist in Tome games, so rationing things based on scrolls or whatever is a waste of time.

Spell learning is instead rationed by encountering the spell.

Why doesn't the Wizard learn spells from seeing other people cast it? It's just how it goes.

For Valor wrote:4) I saw something about prestige classes come up, and I really didn't understand your response to it (kinda because I'm stupid), but could you tell me how prestige classes would work with this class/IF they would work with this class?

They do not work.

For Valor wrote:5) Would Overcharge stack if you burned 2 slots? One of my players disagrees with me on this point, 'cause he thinks it does stack. Please tell him off.

As currently written, there is no correct RAW answer to that question, because the ability is not written as to exclude the possibility of stacking, but it does hint at a limit of one.

The intent is that it should be only one slot per cast.

For Valor · Post by **For Valor** » Fri Apr 02, 2010 5:30 pm

1) I don't know what SLA and RTA mean... but I think I understand! So maybe taking a level in Fighter or something, if it's worth it...

3) This is a wise rationale.

5) And I also don't know RAW.

Is there a place where I can just learn these acronyms?

Maxus · Post by **Maxus** » Fri Apr 02, 2010 5:44 pm

Hark, noob, you will be learned good.

SLA= Spell-like ability

RAW= Rules As Written

RTA is actually slipping my mind at the moment. If it's a common one, it's not the term my group uses for it.

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Fri Apr 02, 2010 5:56 pm

RTA = Ranged Touch Attack

For Valor · Post by **For Valor** » Sun Apr 04, 2010 4:07 am

Alrighty, then. Thank you!

I had some more confusions, though...
- The skill set has Handle Animal, Decipher Script, and Gather Information. I does not understands.
- If I used Overcharge on a Spell, and then put the Spell in a Maintenance Slot (other than the burned one, of course), would the +5 CL effect persist even after the Overcharge recovered? Or would it fade away or just not work or something?

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Sun Apr 04, 2010 12:08 pm

For Valor wrote:Alrighty, then. Thank you!

I had some more confusions, though...
- The skill set has Handle Animal, Decipher Script, and Gather Information. I does not understands.
- If I used Overcharge on a Spell, and then put the Spell in a Maintenance Slot (other than the burned one, of course), would the +5 CL effect persist even after the Overcharge recovered? Or would it fade away or just not work or something?

1) Me neither. Skills exist. I hate them, but there they are.

2) Yes, +5 remains.

For Valor · Post by **For Valor** » Sun Jun 27, 2010 5:44 pm

alright, necro-ing because of a playtest.

So I built one of these guys (Aasimar for maxxed wisdom. Woot!), and I had trouble with the spells available/maintenance slots.

They improve sporadically, which is annoying. You're going from levels 1-6 making it through with 6 levels of spells known (WisMod +6) and then BOOM! At level 7, your spell list becomes 13 levels. Now that's a lot at level 7, but it's annoyingly small at level 6.

I was looking for something to scale it with, and right off the bat I just grabbed my XPH and used the power-point table (dividing the correlating value by 2 for spell levels known and by 4 for maintenance slots).

And the higher levels look lonely without class stuffs...

Akula · Post by **Akula** » Tue Mar 29, 2011 1:21 am

Your class has a serious problem. Not everyone has access to, or has read, every book. Since you explicitly give the class the ability to dumpster dive like a motherfucker, this will lead to wild disparities in power between Invokers that are not only the same level, but have the same spells selected for their mindpools. That means that two players with the same skill and same level of optimization are actually entirely different based on how principled they are.

This class is not only probably overpowered, not only a time sink, but varies based on if your group has an obscure book so you can loot the casting of a enhanced progression PrC. Also, cool and even definitive spells show up levels before they are normally available. You should fix the mindpool scaling so that you don't feel the need to give wall of stone at level 3.

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Tue Mar 29, 2011 2:43 am

Akula wrote:Your class has a serious problem. Not everyone has access to, or has read, every book. Since you explicitly give the class the ability to dumpster dive like a motherfucker, this will lead to wild disparities in power between Invokers that are not only the same level, but have the same spells selected for their mindpools. That means that two players with the same skill and same level of optimization are actually entirely different based on how principled they are.

This class is not only probably overpowered, not only a time sink, but varies based on if your group has an obscure book so you can loot the casting of a enhanced progression PrC. Also, cool and even definitive spells show up levels before they are normally available. You should fix the mindpool scaling so that you don't feel the need to give wall of stone at level 3.

I agree with you 100%, and would in fact do that if I weren't extremely lazy and focused more on less overpowered classes with better fluff that interest me more. Or on writing item acquisition rules to go with my magic item rules.

...You Lost Me · Post by **...You Lost Me** » Wed Aug 29, 2012 7:43 am

Hey, I really like this class. I'm trying to get one to write up some kind of magic knight, and it's pretty functional at lower levels.

Since it's a casting class, it probably doesn't get lots of class features, but I was wondering what I could do to make this less dangerous at high levels. I did want to get rid of the dumpster diving and just replace it with cler/wiz/druid spell access. I was also thinking of limiting the mindpool to spell levels (like you can access 20 + Wis levels worth of spells, so 30 lvl 1 spells or 4 lvl 6 spells).

Anyhow, I'm running this tomorrow in a game. I'll post feedback if you'd like.