Expanding AWOD

[Username17]

I would suggest making a publishing deal with TriTac to distribute this as a new edition of Nightlife. It would give you instead cred with certain corners of the RPG community and avoid trademark issues.

That is a really good idea. I sent an email to Richard Tucholka to see if that's possible.

It's been years since I thought about Nightlife, but you're right that aWoD has more of the "feel" that Nightlife was going for than it resembles any version of WoD. And if it works out, then after stripping White Wolf IP, I could automatically tell White Wolf to go fuck themselves if they got pissy. The first edition of Nightlife came out before Masquerade.

-Username17

[CatharzGodfoot]

While we're on the topic, thoughts on reducing the number of base basic monster disciplines to 5 or 4?

[Username17]

While we're on the topic, thoughts on reducing the number of base basic monster disciplines to 5 or 4?

What?

-Username17

[CatharzGodfoot]

While we're on the topic, thoughts on reducing the number of base basic monster disciplines to 5 or 4?

What?

-Username17

In Media Res characters start with a ton of powers (8 or 9 basic, 3 or 4 advanced). Pretty much every luminary type could loose one or two powers without being noticeably lessened flavor-wise. To me it makes sense to reduce the number of starting powers a bit. The only downside I see is fewer bases to expand advanced powers from.

It's not a huge deal at all; just a minor consideration.

[Blasted]

In Media Res characters start with a ton of powers (8 or 9 basic, 3 or 4 advanced). Pretty much every luminary type could loose one or two powers without being noticeably lessened flavor-wise. To me it makes sense to reduce the number of starting powers a bit. The only downside I see is fewer bases to expand advanced powers from.

It's not a huge deal at all; just a minor consideration.

On that note, I've seen a couple of people running 'low power' adventures, with an 'origin story' power level, but without an origin story.
i.e. the PCs start with the powers rather than developing them and are not all that powerful. I think there's a demand for that level of play out of the box.

[Draco_Argentum]

The most glaring thing that needs to change that I don't see mentioned is the name.

[Username17]

The most glaring thing that needs to change that I don't see mentioned is the name.

I think that goes without saying in the case that you removed all references to the World of Darkness that you would also take the words "World of Darkness" out of the title, just as it would be excised from the rest of the text.

Now if the Nightlife thing came through then a lot of names would be obvious. The Carthians would be named The Commune, the Black Spiral Dancers would be named Red Moonrise, and so on. Of course I highly doubt that would work, last I knew Brian still thought the Nightlife property was worth real money and wanted to be compensated in real money for people to make a new edition of Nightlife - hopefully the grim reality that Nightlife hits its twenty year anniversary of not being in print next year will have snapped some sense into him.

For those of you who don't remember Nightlife, it was like World of Darkness (as opposed to Masquerade) back when Rein*Hagen was working on Ars Magica. You played a misfit team of "extranatural" creatures who were collectively called the Kin. So you could be a vampire or a werewolf in the same party (like aWoD), and it was written in the late 80s so their list of monster types is really weird and contains shit like purposeful misspellings ("Vampyre") and outright racist tirades ("Inuit" is a Kin race, I am not making that up). The game is set in New York in the dystopian near future of the year two thousand. The game talks about how hip and edgy and modern the movie Lost Boys is. Again, that is not a joke.

The game system itself is very Senzarish. You have big piles of d10s that you roll and add up and divide by things in order to generate in-game values. And you normally resolve actions with percentile dice. The game uses hexes that are five yards across. The MC is called the "City Planner", which is abbreviated to "CP". It ties in with the whole idea that you're playing in New York.

But of course if aWoD became Nightlife 4e, it would only pay lip service to small parts of that. Nightlife is dead and so are the 80s. So the aWoD system (which is a cleaned up SR4) would be used instead of an unholy pile of d10s. Prometheans would be renamed "Animates" like they are in the old Nightlife books, but you wouldn't have "Inuits" or "Wyghts" on the playable list. We also wouldn't be putting an "Attractiveness" stat back in. Nightlife was supposed to be modern and in your face, and it would have to be pushed forward a lot. So a new Nightlife intro would have to have a section on how "Our Vampires Don't Sparkle!" but it wouldn't have to retrograde itself into hokey late 80s sci-fi.

-Username17

[CatharzGodfoot]

Alright, so power set reduction isn't on the table.


Here's another minor issue:

Deep Ones can breathe water as easily as air.

Deep ones have Patience of the Mountains. They can breath nothing at all just as easily as anything else.

And while I'm on the subject of deep ones, I think that Dream Vision really fits their aesthetic. More so than Command or tongue of the serpent.

[Username17]

And while I'm on the subject of deep ones, I think that Dream Vision really fits their aesthetic. More so than Command or tongue of the serpent.

That is a really good point. It would want to replace Tongue of the Serpent, because Command is a prereq for Conditioning, which they need.

-Username17

[Almaz]

I asked this in another thread, but I didn't quite get a response there, so I'll try again here. Touch of Darkness is somewhat ambiguous in its writing, so I want to check.

I'm a Bagheera assassin and I'm killing a werewolf because I hate dogs. I have a variety of methods of killing people at my disposal.

1) I claw a Werewolf's face off. I know this is aggravated.
2) I swing a baseball bat at his face afterwards. Is this aggravated?
3) I then pump a shotgun and blow him away. Is this aggravated?
4) I use Chasing the Storms' Lightning Strike to set him on lightning. Is this aggravated?

These are all, technically, "physical attacks", so I figured I'd ask this and be pedantic before the inevitable pedantry comes up in my game.

[Orion]

So what, Frank, you're just going to keep misinterpreting my questions so they don't make sense? God, I'm starting to feel like PhoneLobster.

I didn't ask who runs the BSD. I asked who is in the BSD. I never asked where their headquarters is. I asked where they are. I didn't ask what their monolithic philosophy is. I asked what some books are that some BSD would like. The fact that an organization happens to disorganized, fractious, and global does not mean it is literally impossible to have any information about them. If nothing else, you should look at what Grek wrote in the other thread, because that is cool.

[Username17]

I asked this in another thread, but I didn't quite get a response there, so I'll try again here. Touch of Darkness is somewhat ambiguous in its writing, so I want to check.

I'm a Bagheera assassin and I'm killing a werewolf because I hate dogs. I have a variety of methods of killing people at my disposal.

1) I claw a Werewolf's face off. I know this is aggravated.
2) I swing a baseball bat at his face afterwards. Is this aggravated?
3) I then pump a shotgun and blow him away. Is this aggravated?
4) I use Chasing the Storms' Lightning Strike to set him on lightning. Is this aggravated?

These are all, technically, "physical attacks", so I figured I'd ask this and be pedantic before the inevitable pedantry comes up in my game.

It's intended to work on the character's personal, physical, natural body weapons. I don't think it would actually break it to swing baseball bats for aggravated damage, but it was never intended to do so.

-Username17

[CatharzGodfoot]

Maybe you could add a bit on 'inherent attacks (or 'weapons')' vs 'wielded weapons' vs 'magic (or 'special') attacks' in the Dangers section.

[Grek]

I don't think it would actually break it to swing baseball bats for aggravated damage, but it was never intended to do so.

It would probably break things to swing other objects for aggravated damage.

Take, for example, a starting bagheera that takes Giant Size as their personal advanced discipline and starts out with 6 strength. This goes up to 6+6+3=15 strength with disciplines, which is enough to duel wield lamp posts for 13 aggravated damage each and takes 3 initiative passes each round.

[Winnah]

May or may not be appropriate for discussion in this thread.

Vampires and sunlight. Traditionally, vampires can suck blood, spread disease or eat manure (I shit you not) with impunity in full daylight. I'm all for mechanics that weaken vampires during the day, even having clans or cults that aquire a weakness to UV, but combusting because someone opens the drapes is lame. Sparkles are also lame. Those are just my preferences though. They probably won't sell books.

Most people probably associate vampires and werewolves with what they have seen on TV or in the movies. Figuring out what sources you are going to draw on is going to have an impact on play experience and possibly mechanics. Are werewolves vulnerable only to silver? Silver through the heart? Do vampires get immobilised when they are staked or do they explode into dust? Speaking of which, what happens to the remains of other supernatural creatures when they are killed?

[CatharzGodfoot]

May or may not be appropriate for discussion in this thread.

Vampires and sunlight. Traditionally, vampires can suck blood, spread disease or eat manure (I shit you not) with impunity in full daylight. I'm all for mechanics that weaken vampires during the day, even having clans or cults that aquire a weakness to UV, but combusting because someone opens the drapes is lame. Sparkles are also lame. Those are just my preferences though. They probably won't sell books.

Most people probably associate vampires and werewolves with what they have seen on TV or in the movies. Figuring out what sources you are going to draw on is going to have an impact on play experience and possibly mechanics. Are werewolves vulnerable only to silver? Silver through the heart? Do vampires get immobilised when they are staked or do they explode into dust? Speaking of which, what happens to the remains of other supernatural creatures when they are killed?

Slaying Monsters (in general):
You can hurt just about anything by just running it over with a car. However, supernatural creatures have supernatural defenses that make them incredibly tough. There are a couple of universal weapons that cut through crap like regeneration and magic force fields. They are effective based on the type of creature you are trying to kill. When used on the appropriate foe, these weapons inflict aggravated damage and negate soak bonuses from disciplines. Note that simply having a high Strength with the aid of a power like Giant Size would not constitute a soak bonus, but that a specific soak bonus (including bonus armor) such those provided by Force Field or the passive benefit of Fortitude is negated.

• Wood
  In many songs and stories, only special wood counts against the forces of darkness. Maybe it is oak, or banyan or sacred ash. But seriously it doesn't even matter. Wood represents life even when it is dead, dry, and laminated. It is effective against Prometheans, Vampires, Zombies, and Ghosts.
  
  Iron
  Seriously, Iron. Like the stuff that your steel knives are already made out of. It's a symbol of modernity and industrialization and stuff and it classically drives away the old cthonic stuff. It is effective against Leviathan, Transhumans, Evil Plants, and Fey.
  
  Silver
  Shiny and inconstant like the moon, silver is hard enough to kill a man and easy enough to cast that you can do it before the invention of bronze. Silver is clearly magical, and is lethal to creatures as ephemeral and primal as it is. It is effective against Witches, Lycanthropes, Giant Animals, and Demons.

Weakening Supernatural Creatures
There are a lot of things which, while they won't burn the flesh of supernaturals, will deplete their powers. They can be used to imprison some of these bad boys, or take their powers away long enough to beat them in a fight. When exposed to their particular kryptonite, a supernatural creature's powers are weakened in several ways:

• Their Potency is considered zero, and any of their attributes that are raised past their normal maximum are considered to be their normal maximum (usually 6 for former humans).
• They cannot spend Power Points, and any disciplines they activated this scene with Power Points already have no further effect for as long as the character's powers are suppressed.
• They cannot spend an action required to activate any discipline.

• Alcohol
  It has to be very strong beer to count, but in general, if you get some good old fashioned spirits onto (or into) supernatural creatures they have a hard time using their powers. Consumed alcohol wears off in about an hour, alcohol spilled on a creature cleans up with club soda.
  Effective against: Evil Plants, Lycanthropes, Prometheans, Giant Animals
  
  Water
  Getting wet is a real problem for some evil beings. Unlike with alcohol, water vulnerabilities don't trigger in any way off of being drunk. The creature's powers are dampened only so long as their exterior is wet. Moderate dampness doesn't count either, we're talking half-liter or more Wicked Witch of the West wet (and they don't even melt, they just can't spend power points and such).
  Effective against: Demons, Witches, Transhumans, and Fey
  
  Sunlight
  The harsh light of the day star robs evil creatures of their strength.
  Effective against: Vampires, Ghosts, Zombies, and Leviathan

You should probably take a look at this.

[Almaz]

I asked this in another thread, but I didn't quite get a response there, so I'll try again here. Touch of Darkness is somewhat ambiguous in its writing, so I want to check.

I'm a Bagheera assassin and I'm killing a werewolf because I hate dogs. I have a variety of methods of killing people at my disposal.

1) I claw a Werewolf's face off. I know this is aggravated.
2) I swing a baseball bat at his face afterwards. Is this aggravated?
3) I then pump a shotgun and blow him away. Is this aggravated?
4) I use Chasing the Storms' Lightning Strike to set him on lightning. Is this aggravated?

These are all, technically, "physical attacks", so I figured I'd ask this and be pedantic before the inevitable pedantry comes up in my game.

It's intended to work on the character's personal, physical, natural body weapons. I don't think it would actually break it to swing baseball bats for aggravated damage, but it was never intended to do so.

-Username17

Thank you for the reply. I figured this was the case, given that it is in the name of the power ("touch"), but I wanted to check. I personally will not let it extend to melee weaponry, but that's mostly because that gets a whole lot fuzzier and cars dealing aggravated damage confuses me. Also it means Beowulf wasn't a supernatural using Touch of Darkness to punch Grendel's immune-to-anything-not-aggravated ass to death if he could have wielded a weapon to do so.

I will personally interpret it for my games as extending to anything that is either actually touching, or a projection of an actual touch, so that Elders with psychic bitchslaps (Potence-Force Field) and pyros with Hand of Flame both benefit from it as well, but this is mostly because I am incredibly cruel and wish to set my players on aggravated fire rather than anything else, and don't find them doing so unreasonable either, except that none of them are Baali or otherwise have that kind of power set.

[CatharzGodfoot]

...I am incredibly cruel and wish to set my players on aggravated fire...

Speaking of which, there don't seem to be any rules for fire damage or being on fire.

[Blasted]

Speaking of which, there don't seem to be any rules for fire damage or being on fire.

I think something like this:

Fire
Like poison, being set alight will deal the character more damage as time progresses. The character will soak the attack and apply the damage each round until extinguished. The damage done will reduce by one each round until the fire runs out of fuel.
Fires require fuel, oxygen and heat. For a camp fire, this is wood, air and a match. Some fuels, such as thermite, have oxygen attached and can burn without air. Completely removing one of the three requirements will extinguish the fire. A character could jump into a lake to extinguish their burning clothes. Reducing one of the requirements will reduce the damage done. Throwing a bucket of water on the character may achieve this. Most fires once started are limited by the fuel available.The duration below assumes 1/2 or more of the character is covered. Adding more fuel will increase the duration proportionally. For instance, throwing a can of gas on a character will do 3 damage each round for 3 rounds, throwing a second will add 3 to the rounds remaining.
Once the duration falls below the listed damage, the damage is equal to the duration.

Fuel	Damage	Duration
Thermite	8	8
Napalm	5	5
Gas/Petrol	3	3
Clothing	1	2

Edit - Added thermite to replace mental blank
Removed additive damage - so it's not good for large blazes.

[Quantumboost]

Some fuels, such as mental blank. Napalm?

Thermite. The oxygen comes in the form of iron oxide, the actual fuel is powdered aluminum. The most powerful solid fuels and explosives will [edit]also[/edit] have oxygen built in, since they're often expected to operate in conditions where oxygen isn't present - such as space for rocket fuel or just burning crazy fast for explosives.

[Orion]

Nor for swimming, holding breath, or underwater combat.

[Winnah]

You should probably take a look at this.

Thank you. I did not realise someone had made a unification of the WoD rules. Look pretty cool so far, but it is a lot to read.

Missing collisions though. Not a real complaint, but at least once in every storyteller campaign I have played, someone has devided to use a vehicle as a weapon. Assigning a strength score to a vehicle might be an easy method of dealing with this. It would also let you know if a VW mini can even move if a warformed creatures is in the back seat.

Then again, it would be a waste of space in a sourcebook. I can probably figure out a way to use the stunting mechanic to acheive vehicular manslaughter anyway.

[erik]

Re: fire damage rules.

I do not think it should be that heaping more fuel does more damage. 3 cans of gas beats anything then. Going that way you'll have a tank of gas being nuke worthy.

Just extend duration with more fuel/accellerant.

[Blasted]

You are right. I've made the duration change. It could do with some rewording when I've got time. The only gottcha with this is that large blazes (for instance an oil well) are limited in intensity (an oil well being 3). But that's better than my original anyway.

[Username17]

For ongoing contact damage, we should probably use Timefame shifts. You fill in a box every X time, and a better soak roll makes X be a longer time and a worse soak roll makes X be a shorter time. I don't think the poison system works that well because if you put it out it goes out and if you don't put it out it doesn't. With poison, having a longer duration makes it do less damage, but we really do want players to want to shorten durations by rolling around on the ground or washing acid off their arm.

The only problem I got looking at the Time Chart is that there seems to be a fairly narrow range it would work in. I'm actually OK with players taking a box of damage per round or a box of damage per minute or even taking a box of damage per five minutes. Those numbers set up the kinds of questions where you only have X amount of time in the burning building before you pass out. Or whatever. But a box of damage per hour is going to lead to people setting themselves on fire just for the look of it. And a box of damage per free action doesn't make a lot of sense.

So continuous damage looks like it should get its own special chart, which is a shame.

-Username17