The Shadowrun Situation

Buccaneer · Post by **Buccaneer** » Wed May 18, 2011 10:33 am

Just to keep you informed:

Buccaneer wrote:As far as I know Pegasus will start advertising the patches later this week.

Remember: As far as I know you will only able to order them untill the first weekend of June:
https://www.pegasusshop.de/?thisoperati ... cht=46086G

Buccaneer wrote: Yes there are plans and these shirts will also stay available after the release of the book

The shirts are also ready to order:
http://shadowrun4.spreadshirt.de/stadtkrieg-C197546

hermit · Post by **hermit** » Wed May 18, 2011 2:09 pm

"Much better" as in "the most shit things removed and somewhat worthwhile stuff added in (and the milspec catalogue)". That IS much better, but is it good enough? I'm on the fence there.

Also, what the hell, Sir Doom. What does Germany have all these one-hull class ships for, and why does Germany have what amounts to an amphibious expedition force? Who does the ADL want to invade? It's not like it's more than a failed Congo-like state itself anyway. Which member state would even give the shit government the ADL has any money to buy these shinies?

And, warts or not, Canon, people. What happened to the ridiculous Westphalian four-cruiser-and-escorts fleet, or the entire fleet centered on a ballistic missile cruiser in Kiel? CANON ANYONE?! Is there at least some sort of explanation (were sold because crash/sunk by pirates/eaten by a giant space lobster)?

sirdoom · Post by **sirdoom** » Wed May 18, 2011 2:35 pm

1. There's a reason why these are outtakes.
2. EuroForce(more about Bundeswehr tasks and where they are deployed in Fronteinsatz, buy it)
3. I didn't say a word about the "Westpalian Navy". On purpose... as this is not about Westphalia...and I didn't want to open that can of worms...
4. The Ballistic Missile Cruisers were sold to a failed Congo-like states, where they were taken over by pirates who were than eaten by giant space lobsters.

hermit · Post by **hermit** » Thu May 19, 2011 6:29 am

I didn't say a word about the "Westpalian Navy". On purpose... as this is not about Westphalia...and I didn't want to open that can of worms...

Fair enough. But didn't they also have a huge naval arcology? For their, I dunno, sisters of battle? Or space marines? Because you can totally build a Space Marine in Shadowrun now thanks to attitude.

The Ballistic Missile Cruisers were sold to a failed Congo-like states, where they were taken over by pirates who were than eaten by giant space lobsters.

EuroForce(more about Bundeswehr tasks and where they are deployed in Fronteinsatz, buy it)

Ah, so it's some sort of common European army. Then the 1-ship-class thing makes some sense too, if they all buy Krupp.

Also, seems they released Spy Games. because churning out crap product like there's no tomorrow is what CGL needs. Preview.

Silent Wayfarer · Post by **Silent Wayfarer** » Mon May 23, 2011 8:09 am

4chan told me that the War! supplement was laughingly bad, but I didn't see a lot of elaboration. Is this the case, and if so, what was egregious about it?

TheFlatline · Post by **TheFlatline** » Mon May 23, 2011 8:59 am

Scroll back through this thread. Frank rips it a new one over 2-3 extremely elaborate posts.

Silent Wayfarer · Post by **Silent Wayfarer** » Mon May 23, 2011 9:04 am

Whoops. Will do.

TheFlatline · Post by **TheFlatline** » Mon May 23, 2011 9:31 am

Silent Wayfarer wrote:Whoops. Will do.

No worries, it's pretty far back. Page 93 or so.

There's a huge pissing and moaning argument too about Nazis, killing Jewish holocaust ghosts to loot their final resting place (true story), killing gypsies, immaculate stupidity in magic, geographical errors, and a metric assload of other derp that probably registered on the Richter scale.

I'm not eager to go through that argument again... but the general consensus was:

* Frank needs mead to get through these books. Tasty alcohol will substitute when needed.
* The book has enough quasi-pro nazi quips in it, in addition to one of the most tasteless adventure seeds imaginable, that one of the author's morality code was called into serious question
* Several of the magical spells are bullshit, from the funk that is Designate to the force-1 immunity to bullets that is Slow.
* They used google maps for pictures of countries when the discussion paints a drastically different picture
* Consistency- using imperial instead of metric, bad grammar, bad editing, bad geography, etc etc...
* Other things that invoked pissing and moaning that I can't remember.

It was generally considered one of the first major aborted fetuses from CGL post-freelancer-fucking, and has more or less set the tone for everything else that's come out of CGL since.

Fuchs · Post by **Fuchs** » Mon May 23, 2011 10:33 am

One critisicm was that the thing is called "War" but the majority of the content has nothing to do with any war - it's a Bogota city book, with other sections the world added in that also have not much to do with war.

Stahlseele · Post by **Stahlseele** » Mon May 23, 2011 12:02 pm

STREET LEGENDS (Setting)

Swap Bullets between shots, or Shots between bullets

At the end of a run, you’ve either got a good story to tell, or you’re dead. Live long enough, and you’ll get enough stories to fill a book, and some of them will be killer. There is a certain class of people out on the streets that runners love to talk about, the people at the center of the stories swapped late at night over a round of wiper fluid hooch. Some of them are good, some of them are lucky, and some of them are among the most powerful creatures of the Sixth World. All of them, in their own way, are legends.

Street Legends profiles forty renowned figures in the Sixth World, including JackPoint stalwarts such as Haze, Kane and Puck; classic runners like Serrin Shamander and Tommy Talon; and powerful behind-the-scenes figures including Lugh Surehand, Nadja Daviar, and the great dragon Lofwyr. Learn about hunting vampires with Martin De Vries, breaking into impossible places with The Smiling Bandit, and trying to put a face to the elusive Hans Brackhaus.

Street Legends contains short fiction bringing these characters to life, as well as text describing each person and what makes them a legend. Also, each and every person profiled has complete game stats. Even the dragons.

Frank?
You wanna?

Ancient History · Post by **Ancient History** » Mon May 23, 2011 12:16 pm

I was kind of hoping they'd learned their lesson on that one. Prime Runners was one of the most reviled sourcebooks of any edition, 10 Jackpointers was so bad I went in and edited the damn thing for free...I seriously argued against it at every step and was at about the point of asking if I could just rewrite the thing, because the people doing it did not grasp the basic concepts involved at all.

Stahlseele · Post by **Stahlseele** » Mon May 23, 2011 12:17 pm

ARTIFACTS UNBOUND (Campaign)

Four artifacts have been found. Some of the most powerful people in the Sixth World have been after them, and many people have died in the globetrotting hunt to bring these objects together. Now that they have been recovered, their powers can be unleashed—or the artifacts can be scattered, lost again until another generation summons the courage and the knowledge to dredge them up.

Artifacts Unbound concludes the Dawn of the Artifacts campaign that makes gamemasters and players free to determine the events of the campaign. Filled with adventure seeds, basic setting information, and NPC statistics, Artifacts Unbound lets gamemasters select the elements that would work best in their campaign and design a thrilling story for their game. Easy to use and flexible, this book can be used with players who have gone through the entire Dawn of the Artifacts campaign, or with players just learning about the artifacts and their effect on the Sixth World.

CONSPIRACY THEORIES (Deep Shadows)

War rages in Central America, spies race here and there across the globe, and tales continue to spread of four powerful artifacts and the feats accomplished by those who manage to get their hands on them. To many, the world is becoming more disordered and unpredictable—but there are those who look underneath the surface chaos and see order, or even a plan. They see people and organizations who pull the strings and make the world shake, and they wonder if they can find out what these people are up to before it’s too late.

Conspiracy Theories is a deep dive into the underbelly of the Sixth World, a place filled with crackpot theories and insane ideas that would be laughable if it weren’t for the fact that some of them are most assuredly true. If the want to stay alive, shadowrunners need to know this information so they can stay a step ahead of the forces that may be massing against them behind the scenes. If they want to prosper, they really need to know this data, because any runner worth a damn knows that manipulating people based on what they believe is true is a great way to make a few nuyen.

Bringing together plot elements from War!, Spy Games, and the Dawn of the Artifacts series, Conspiracy Theories adds a twisted element to Shadowrun games.

CORPORATE INTRIGUE (Campaign)

You could dabble in organized crime. You could do some smash-and-grabs. You could find all sorts of ways to pick up a few nuyen here and there. But everyone in the Sixth World knows that if you want to make a play for the big bucks, the real high-level stuff, you’ve got to get in bed with the corps.

The corps have the money, and they’ve got all the power that comes with it. If you want to have some of that cash and some of that pull for yourself, you’re going to need to stay alert, move quickly, and remember that while corps are willing to pay for things that help them, deep down they really hate sharing what they’ve got with anyone. Including shadowrunners. Especially shadowrunners.

Corporate Intrigue provides a wealth of plot points and adventure ideas to allow gamemasters to develop corporate-centered campaigns. Building on information provided in Corporate Guide, Corporate Intrigue provides the story information, location details, and NPC statistics to make running a corporate-themed campaign as easy, fun, and brutal as you want it to be.

Well, what do you expect?
It looks like "No metaplot, just random NPCs, locations and half-assed adventure seeds." like Grinder liked to describe it is the way CGL is going . .

Fuchs · Post by **Fuchs** » Mon May 23, 2011 12:50 pm

Prime Runners... more like "mediocre NPCs any optimized PC will walk over in their speciality".

I like adventure seeds myself, those can usually adapted nicely into adventures tailored to my group. I'd not really pay for a book of them though. Usually a thread on a forum nets enough.

Stahlseele · Post by **Stahlseele** » Mon May 23, 2011 1:04 pm

Haze, Kane and Puck; classic runners like Serrin Shamander and Tommy Talon; and powerful behind-the-scenes figures including Lugh Surehand, Nadja Daviar, and the great dragon Lofwyr. Learn about hunting vampires with Martin De Vries, breaking into impossible places with The Smiling Bandit, and trying to put a face to the elusive Hans Brackhaus.

Street Legends contains short fiction bringing these characters to life, as well as text describing each person and what makes them a legend. Also, each and every person profiled has complete game stats. Even the dragons

Well, Lugh Surehand is an Immoral Elf. DeVriess is a Vampire Sorceror. Daviar is a Pornomancer. Wait, did she not vanish?

Fuchs · Post by **Fuchs** » Mon May 23, 2011 1:18 pm

Stahlseele wrote:
Haze, Kane and Puck; classic runners like Serrin Shamander and Tommy Talon; and powerful behind-the-scenes figures including Lugh Surehand, Nadja Daviar, and the great dragon Lofwyr. Learn about hunting vampires with Martin De Vries, breaking into impossible places with The Smiling Bandit, and trying to put a face to the elusive Hans Brackhaus.

Street Legends contains short fiction bringing these characters to life, as well as text describing each person and what makes them a legend. Also, each and every person profiled has complete game stats. Even the dragons
Well, Lugh Surehand is an Immoral Elf. DeVriess is a Vampire Sorceror. Daviar is a Pornomancer. Wait, did she not vanish?

5 Nuyen say that they got the worst fanboys to write about Immortal Elves and Great Dragons. One can hope though that they mess the stats up so much that they end up cannon fodder for the optimizers.

Stahlseele · Post by **Stahlseele** » Mon May 23, 2011 1:50 pm

*snickers*
Gauss-Rifles are usefull ^^

TheFlatline · Post by **TheFlatline** » Tue May 24, 2011 12:01 am

Fuchs wrote:
Stahlseele wrote:
Haze, Kane and Puck; classic runners like Serrin Shamander and Tommy Talon; and powerful behind-the-scenes figures including Lugh Surehand, Nadja Daviar, and the great dragon Lofwyr. Learn about hunting vampires with Martin De Vries, breaking into impossible places with The Smiling Bandit, and trying to put a face to the elusive Hans Brackhaus.

Street Legends contains short fiction bringing these characters to life, as well as text describing each person and what makes them a legend. Also, each and every person profiled has complete game stats. Even the dragons
Well, Lugh Surehand is an Immoral Elf. DeVriess is a Vampire Sorceror. Daviar is a Pornomancer. Wait, did she not vanish?
5 Nuyen say that they got the worst fanboys to write about Immortal Elves and Great Dragons. One can hope though that they mess the stats up so much that they end up cannon fodder for the optimizers.

But are there going to be more brown elf nipples? This is Stuff We Need To Know.

Silent Wayfarer · Post by **Silent Wayfarer** » Tue May 24, 2011 3:27 am

Why the fuck is a Great Dragon a street legend?

Maxus · Post by **Maxus** » Tue May 24, 2011 4:00 am

Silent Wayfarer wrote:Why the fuck is a Great Dragon a street legend?

because

"DRAGONS ARE BETTER THAN YOU. *fapfapfap*"

Silent Wayfarer · Post by **Silent Wayfarer** » Tue May 24, 2011 7:23 am

Mother of fuck.

Speaking of GDs > you, WTF is this Ghostwalker I read about on pages 100+ on this thread?

Stahlseele · Post by **Stahlseele** » Tue May 24, 2011 8:15 am

Dunkelzahns Brother who was kept prisoner on the Metaplanes and then freed by Talon on Samhain. He picked up his body somewhere, then proceeded to take over Denver by force. And now seems to be only half the Dragon he was when he appeared.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Tue May 24, 2011 10:13 am

Silent Wayfarer wrote:Mother of fuck.

Speaking of GDs > you, WTF is this Ghostwalker I read about on pages 100+ on this thread?

Ghostwalker has various backstory elements in Earthdawn, where he is Dunkelzahn's brother. But none of that is important or even helpful in understanding his appearance in Shadowrun.

He appears in two main sources for SR: Year of the Comet, and Dragons of the Sixth World. These are terrible books and contain very little sense. They were produced near the end of 3rd edition's lifespan and they don't make any fucking sense. Both books try to go bigger than anything else that had ever been, and they jizz so hard on bigness that they forget to do things like check orders of magnitude.

Year of the Comet is Ghostwalker's entrance point. This is the book that has the Pueblo Corporate Council (10 million inhabitants) conquer the Los Angeles Basin (30 million inhabitants) without meaningfully changing its own population, had volcanoes (plural) larger than Krakatoa go off in Japan without meaningfully disrupting international commerce, and introduced fucking SURGE. So when it introduces a brand new great dragon and a fight in Denver, you know it's going to be high quality writing and well reasoned metaplot. Oh wait, it's going to be the other thing.

So Ghostwalker appears with a cadre of evil spirits working for him and he then invades Denver. Keep in mind: Denver has three nuclear powers in it and the borders of the divisions in the city are defined in the treaty that ended the North American War of Succession. So you'd sort of think that an invasion by a dragon with an army of spirits would be met with... extreme hostility? Well, apparently not. Aztlan sits on its hands while Ghostwalker rampages around Godzilla style and then all the major countries in North America simply accept Ghostwalker being "king" of Denver while the entire Treaty of Denver is abrogated, technically relaunching an open state of war between the UCAS and STC, as well as between Aztlan and the CFS, and Aztlan and the CAS, and the STC and the CAS, and the UCAS and Tir Tairngire, and the UCAS and Quebec. OK, but despite the fact that the book did just reopen the book on all of those wars... nothing happens.

So what does happen? Well, all the materials previously written on Denver (including the Denver box set) become toilet paper, because the lines are all "redrawn" and there is no longer an Aztlan district in the city. And... that's it. The plot went nowhere. They kicked over the sandcastle that was the number 2 Shadowrun starting location, they terminated the treaty upon which the entire setting was based, and they introduced a megalomaniac Godzilla monster that was apparently capable of taking on three nuclear powers at once with his bare hands and win. And... that was it. They walked away and patted themselves on the back for a job well done. A hatchet job on the entire setting with no payoff at all.

Then in Dragons of the Sixth World they revisit the matter. And what do they do? They write some fapping fanfiction about how badass Ghostwalker is and how he personally beat up a bunch of military equipment that is in fact way beyond what a Great Dragon's stats actually let them do. And then... that's it. They just confirm that the setting makes no sense anymore and that Tenochtitlan is contractually required to set off a nuclear device in Denver and Dallas and hasn't yet for... no reason. And then they walk away from their pile of poo.

There have been a lot of dumb plot ideas over the years. But Ghostwalker is the worst.

-Username17

Silent Wayfarer · Post by **Silent Wayfarer** » Tue May 24, 2011 1:18 pm

Jesus Christ, that is indeed an epic shit on the status quo indeed.

Frank, thank you for summarizing all that info for a lurker like me. I appreciate it and will use it as a negative example for my own GMing.

sabs · Post by **sabs** » Tue May 24, 2011 1:29 pm

It's a shame because IceWing was cool. And much smarter than all that. And Denver was fun. Now it's this weird, "be bad-ass, but don't piss off the Dragon."

Fucks · Post by **Fucks** » Tue May 24, 2011 1:34 pm

Anyone dared to read Spy Games yet? There is a 60 pages or so write-up on Denver in it.