The Shadowrun Situation

[Antumbra]

Anyone dared to read Spy Games yet? There is a 60 pages or so write-up on Denver in it.

EDIT: Screw my point about the introduction - they've actually done something about those URGENT MESSAGE boxes!

URGENT MESSAGE is still present but check out these radical departures from the modern classic:

Olympic Guide...
Game Info
Incoming Feed (for pictures)
Thom's Top Tricks
Private Message

Meaningless next to the content, but it's something resembling a good sign.

[rasmuswagner]

Lack of AP capabilities and no bursting keeps it inferior, but a troll spec'd for archery should be able to get in the 15P+ range for raw damage without too much effort.

Str 12, maximum for bows, is 14P right there. With Explosive heads, that's P15, no AP. I can't find anything else to boost the raw damage.

[Fuchs]

From what it sounds like, the software calculates those trajectories and delays for you so that you can get off multiple rounds which hit simultaneously and thus deliver more damage in a single hit.

Which is kind of frightening for an archer.

And only works against a stationary target (or a target moving in a predictable way). You won't hit anything else as an archer that way with MRSI.

It's an artillery technique, where you use indirect fire and the shells take time to travel over miles. Not a direct fire technique.

[raben-aas]

This may be a good spot to once again say that making a connection between Earthdawn and Shadowrun may be the single most stupid decision in the history of roleplaying games.

And yes, I hate the guts of every single gamemaster who introduces "unbeatable plot devices", be they all-knowing and all-powerful mages that hire teams of runners to do something they could do themselves a hundred times faster, cheaper and better, or be they "great" dragons who just popped out of a fantasy world and go "whee, Wi-Fi Matrix and stealth bombers, I totally know what THAT is".

[attackdrone]

A Great Dragon going down to a Troll using a fucking Composite bow is stupid. Hell, even going down to a single mini gun is dumb. You can masturbate over your 50 caliber machine gun all you want.

I never said the dragon died. Taking 7 boxes of physical damage was enough to convince him to retreat. To be fair, the archer rolled 20 or more successes out of about 28 dice (using edge of course). The damage was just enough to get past the hardened armor in the first place.

Great Dragons in my Shadowrun campaigns since this incident remain hidden behind the scenes and send out minions (inclusive of lesser dragons capable of being bullied into direct action by their elders) to do their dirty work. Ghostwalker's folly was leaked all over the Matrix for the world to see (the runners posted their eye-cam recordings of the incident).

In other news, goddamn I should audit new sourcebooks more carefully. One of my players brought in a new mage after the War! sourcebook was released... stupid-ass Slow spell! "Bla bla darf - this stops bullets for free." He used it once, and cited the "rules" on me. Ha!

[Stahlseele]

As per the rules Fuchs, yes, MRSI would double thatup to 30p Damage.
And nowhere in the rules does it say stationary targets only.
And it specifically mentions being use able with Bow and Arrow.
Technically, this is something that SMARTLINK should have been capable of doing since day one . .
Furthermore: Yes, as of war, you REALLY need to be care full with what you allow at your table . .
I think even the highly official missions games ban these things . .

[Fuchs]

As per the rules Fuchs, yes, MRSI would double thatup to 30p Damage.
And nowhere in the rules does it say stationary targets only.
And it specifically mentions being use able with Bow and Arrow.
Technically, this is something that SMARTLINK should have been capable of doing since day one . .
Furthermore: Yes, as of war, you REALLY need to be care full with what you allow at your table . .
I think even the highly official missions games ban these things . .

Is this stupid shit from WAR? It's not about the rule,s it's about physics. You need a range and flight time of projectiles longer than the usual distance of an arrow to use this multiple impact stuff. It works with artillery since those shells take a long time to hit a target, it doesn't work with arrows from a bow against a moving target since at least the higher arc of a bow shot will take too long to reach the target to hit it.

[Stahlseele]

Shadowrun Super Science.
It just works that way.

[Fuchs]

More like Shadowrun Super Stupidity.

[UmaroVI]

Slow is actually not banned in missions. Our regular missions group has a very, very short list of "if you do this, the GM will drop rocks on you" for things that are not technically banned but are gamebreakingly fucktarded; Slow is on that short list.

[Username17]

Slow is actually not banned in missions. Our regular missions group has a very, very short list of "if you do this, the GM will drop rocks on you" for things that are not technically banned but are gamebreakingly fucktarded; Slow is on that short list.

Did War! ever get allowed in Missions? I thought that all the new stuff was just on quasi-permanent hold, having not been allowed in Missions "yet" with no sign that they would ever actually move forward on allowing anything ever again. Like with that recent Way of the Adept book.

-Username17

[Silent Wayfarer]

As per the rules Fuchs, yes, MRSI would double thatup to 30p Damage.
And nowhere in the rules does it say stationary targets only.
And it specifically mentions being use able with Bow and Arrow.
Technically, this is something that SMARTLINK should have been capable of doing since day one . .
Furthermore: Yes, as of war, you REALLY need to be care full with what you allow at your table . .
I think even the highly official missions games ban these things . .

Is this stupid shit from WAR? It's not about the rule,s it's about physics. You need a range and flight time of projectiles longer than the usual distance of an arrow to use this multiple impact stuff. It works with artillery since those shells take a long time to hit a target, it doesn't work with arrows from a bow against a moving target since at least the higher arc of a bow shot will take too long to reach the target to hit it.

Okay, so I read up on MRSI and hory shiet. They list freaking BF/FA grenade launchers in the same book too. Does this mean I can basically pile on the grenades and make everyone die? Does MRSI stack with full-auto?

What I want to do is make a cute little elf loli girl in a nun's habit who whips out a smartlinked MRSI Gonryu from under her skirt and blows Ghostwalker away in one combat round. Can I do that?

[mean_liar]

Yes. Why not?

[Stahlseele]

But of course.
Have you read the Grenade Stacking Rules yet?
Combine those with MRSI and Akimbo Firing Full Auto Grenade Launchers.
Yes, you can get close to a nukes size of boom that way, why do you ask?

[sabs]

War, is like Highlander 2. We deny it's existence.

[Juton]

War, is like Highlander 2. We deny it's existence.

There is no Highlander 2, never has been, never will be.

[Maxus]

Can we just elect to erase popular knowledge of Highlander?

No, really. My last name is McLeod. That shit ain't cool.

There can be only one Highlander joke.

[Stahlseele]

Everything Good ends at Part 3.
Indiana Jones
Star Wars(the original)
Die Hard
Shadowrun

[TheFlatline]

Okay, so I read up on MRSI and hory shiet. They list freaking BF/FA grenade launchers in the same book too. Does this mean I can basically pile on the grenades and make everyone die? Does MRSI stack with full-auto?

What I want to do is make a cute little elf loli girl in a nun's habit who whips out a smartlinked MRSI Gonryu from under her skirt and blows Ghostwalker away in one combat round. Can I do that?

I'd *probably* say no to the Full Auto/MRSI combo. Full auto is supposed to be hard to keep on target, and takes a significant amount of time to turn the hose on. So unless you're going to be shooting at someone way the fuck far away you wouldn't feasibly have time.

Burst Fire might be doable if it's ROF was high enough though.

As far as MRSI for bows though, it does strike me as bullshit. Unless you're firing at something hundreds of yards away the odds of you popping off two arrows during the first arrow's flight time seems difficult if not impossible.

[fectin]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e97Ck3DY4M0

This guy claims 4 shots in 9 seconds. That's 1/2.25 seconds. Arrows fly at roughly 200f/s, so you'd get about a 450 ft(150 yard) separation. Therefor, two arrows during the first arrow's flight time means you need to be shooting at least 300 yards away.

And most runners aren't operating at normal human speeds, so that should close in noticeably for shadowrun.

[Neurosis]

You're a fucking idiot. You are talking about swords that cleave through rock, shoot fire. We're talking about Magical Canons that can blow holes in mountains. If you think the /swords/ matter, as opposed to the massive amounts of magic.

A Great Dragon going down to a Troll using a fucking Composite bow is stupid. Hell, even going down to a single mini gun is dumb. You can masturbate over your 50 caliber machine gun all you want.

In the FIRST EVER SHADOWRUN NOVEL written by one of the GUYS WHO INVENTED SHADOWRUN the main antagonist is a (Great?) Dragon who gets killed by a street samurai with a minigun in the climax of the book.

Just saying. (Of course as someone mentioned, the hard part was maneuvering Drake into that ambush.)

They totally do, yes; though the first few salvoes go poof against the dragon's fate pool. Then the dragon runs out of fate points, and gets murdered in the face by the first person to attack them with a reasonable (read: humongous) pool.

On the other hand, fuck Twist Fate. What respectable GD is this who's not sustaining or quickening Deflection and Combat Sense at at least Force 12 each and rocking a defense pool of like 30+ dice before edge? And also, what Shadowrun team is this who are ALL PROFICIENT WITH MISSILE LAUNCHERS? Maybe they're rich and have got skillsofts, but skillsofts only go so far. And while admittedly a 4-6 man team of combat-spec'd runners have a lot more actions than one 4IP Great Dragon, it's still not like he's going to spend his four Initiative Passes just dodging. He's either going to GTFO or start ruining people's shit by double and triple casting Force gazillion manabolts and fire breath.

But yes, fluff-wise, the dragon WON'T get in the line of fire. They're too smart. They probably already have Knight Errant on the way to arrest you for having so many totally illegal missile launchers.

[TheFlatline]

And also, what Shadowrun team is this who are ALL PROFICIENT WITH MISSILE LAUNCHERS? Maybe they're rich and have got skillsofts, but skillsofts only go so far.

If a shadowrun team is enough of a mover & shaker to personally piss off a dragon so bad that it decides it needs to belly flop the runners, they're probably either seriously funded or wealthy enough to get the training & equipment they need.

And towards that end, if I was going to engage in an activity that might conceivably piss off Ghostwalker so he'd go all Godzilla on me and my friends, I'd have a fucking missile launcher with me.

Of course, towards that end, I might as well pool the team's money and buy a Thor Shot orbital cannon and do it proper.

[Stahlseele]

Haesslich was an Adult Western Dragon at best, nowhere near Great Status.
Also the Chief of Security of United Oil. He got killed by the Minigun i think.
After he had killed a feathered Serpent called Tessien.

[Korwin]

If I remember correctly Häslich wasnt even a Mage. But his dead was satisfying anyway.

[Stahlseele]

All Dragons are Mages, right?
And yep, it was very satisfying.
They had actually managed to get people to LIKE Tessien . .