[D&D 3.5] The Unconventional Wisdom of the Den
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- Ancient History
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I think that near the end there, the people at WotC had actually thrown enough darts at the wall that a careful clearcutting would have made a viable 4.0 that was based on 3.+, distinct from it and no longer quite so broken. For example, they were wising up to the fact that "dead levels" suck and needed to be addressed, people /like/ alternate class features which could be used to customize their characters more, multiclassing was not evil, familiars didn't have to suck, and some people really want six types of magic knight.
It's still crap past about 6th level, but hey: the tools were there.
It's still crap past about 6th level, but hey: the tools were there.
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This is dumb, since the core cleric explicitly can get their power from believing in "a cause", which could be atheism. Or yourself. Or the me who believes in you.Gx1080 wrote:Thought that the whole point of Ur-Priest was giving atheists a way to play Clerics.
Which doesn't mean that wasn't the case, or that it wasn't to give people who want to punch dieties in the dicks the ability to be clerics.
Count Arioch the 28th wrote:I'm not going to go full-asshole, but I'm turning up the dial about 50 millikaeliks.
Like that strobe light ninja?Chamomile wrote: Alternatively, you switch back and forth between having and not having the class every round.
Quantumboost: as true as that is, WotC could easily forget it. They still assume all Clerics worship not only gods, but Good gods that apparently hold onto a bunch of weird Christian stuff.
Count Arioch the 28th wrote:There is NOTHING better than lesbians. Lesbians make everything better.
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In general sand-bagging is done so that a particular player doesn't get too far ahead of the power curve for their buddies. If you want to play a Taint Mage for instance you keep your DCs in the low twenties rather than the low fifties so that you can still play with the others and/or don't get your concept banned entirely.
It's considered a huge failure in game design if someone has to do this even accounting for differences in player experience and tactical skill.
It's considered a huge failure in game design if someone has to do this even accounting for differences in player experience and tactical skill.
Josh Kablack wrote:Your freedom to make rulings up on the fly is in direct conflict with my freedom to interact with an internally consistent narrative. Your freedom to run/play a game without needing to understand a complex rule system is in direct conflict with my freedom to play a character whose abilities and flaws function as I intended within that ruleset. Your freedom to add and change rules in the middle of the game is in direct conflict with my ability to understand that rules system before I decided whether or not to join your game.
In short, your entire post is dismissive of not merely my intelligence, but my agency. And I don't mean agency as a player within one of your games, I mean my agency as a person. You do not want me to be informed when I make the fundamental decisions of deciding whether to join your game or buying your rules system.
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What Capn said. It's important to be able to whip out something stupid that can save the entire party from a Blasphemy at CL 18 at level 9. because your DM might just actually use that monster, but in the mean time, you want to be able to match your caster against whomever else is in the party, and not be able to obviously solo the entire game.
Do not want your stupid political opinion in a gaming thread. Please whine about things that are obviously false somewhere else. Spell Focus Evil.Gx1080 wrote:It maybe dumb, but it was a bone thrown to the "hurr Religion is EVIL" militant atheist fuckheads to make them shut up and play the damn game.
The U.S. isn't a democracy and if you think it is, you are a rube.DSMatticus wrote:Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?
That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
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You are both the problem.Kaelik wrote:Do not want your stupid political opinion in a gaming thread. Please whine about things that are obviously false somewhere else. Spell Focus Evil.Gx1080 wrote:It maybe dumb, but it was a bone thrown to the "hurr Religion is EVIL" militant atheist fuckheads to make them shut up and play the damn game.
- Count Arioch the 28th
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That is exactly the opposite of reality. The Ur Priest steals divine power from gods in general, an despite the fact that half the gods in D&D are evil Ur Priests have to be evil. It's not a bone thrown to atheists who hate religion, it's a bone thrown to religious people who fear atheists.Gx1080 wrote:It maybe dumb, but it was a bone thrown to the "hurr Religion is EVIL" militant atheist fuckheads to make them shut up and play the damn game.
The guy who "fights the gods" is mandatorily a villain. And if you try to analyze the situation without wrapping your mind around the fact that the Ur Priest is an offensive stereotype of atheists that explicitly endorses a view that godliness is goodliness, then you are not going to make any sense.
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Lago PARANOIA wrote:In general sand-bagging is done so that a particular player doesn't get too far ahead of the power curve for their buddies. If you want to play a Taint Mage for instance you keep your DCs in the low twenties rather than the low fifties so that you can still play with the others and/or don't get your concept banned entirely.
It's considered a huge failure in game design if someone has to do this even accounting for differences in player experience and tactical skill.
That actually makes a lot of sense. There is no sense being more powerful than you have to for any given challenge, plus it lets the people who want to play Gimli and Legolas have fun too.CapnTthePirateG wrote:Because you can break stuff really easily, but there are so many overpowered/poorly thought out monsters you need to be ready for.
But if you don't hold back, you risk alienating the guy over there playing the fighter/getting nerfbatted/summoning WEAL WOLEPLAWAs whatever.
Last edited by Strung Nether on Mon Jul 25, 2011 8:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
-Strung
Whoa, whoa, whoa. Ur-Priests are clearly anti-atheist too since they steal power from what atheists worship http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=798.
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That makes sense. I always wondered where the term came from.FrankTrollman wrote:Sandbagging refers to hot air ballooning, it's a really old term. If you have sand bags, it holds your balloon down, but you can drop them at any time to rise up quickly. So sandbagging is a term for voluntarily holding yourself back in a way that you can stop when you want.
Well, I could see this in D&D (since that's the context of this thread), but every other time I've heard the term used, it's usually done in such a way that you play weak, and then pounce on the opposition when they're not ready. In a non-D&D setting, I hear this used either for check-raises in poker or my wife uses it to complain about figure skaters who refuse to test up to the next level so they can keep winning competitions.Lago PARANOIA wrote:In general sand-bagging is done so that a particular player doesn't get too far ahead of the power curve for their buddies. If you want to play a Taint Mage for instance you keep your DCs in the low twenties rather than the low fifties so that you can still play with the others and/or don't get your concept banned entirely.
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If the Ur-Priest only stole powers from good gods and good clerics I could see the justification for them being "always evil". Basically, the Ur-Priest was the prestige class for some group of evil-flavored humans who were always evil. Strip out the cultural notes, and it doesn't make sense anymore.
In this moment, I am Ur-phoric. Not because of any phony god’s blessing. But because, I am enlightened by my int score.
Well, dunno. I first saw Ur-Priests on Book of Vile Darkness, a supplement criticized for NOT including enough rules for rape, evil sex and sexual torture.
So yeah. Also, in D&D world, where Gods have a lot of influence, opposing them is evil, according to D&D morality that is basically whatever the gods say.
Did I mentioned that D&D morality is fucked up? And that most people don't care, because they want to play murdering amoral hobos, I mean, Neutral characters? And the DM LOVES it, because it allows him to pull out his penis and tell players to suck it?
So yeah. Also, in D&D world, where Gods have a lot of influence, opposing them is evil, according to D&D morality that is basically whatever the gods say.
Did I mentioned that D&D morality is fucked up? And that most people don't care, because they want to play murdering amoral hobos, I mean, Neutral characters? And the DM LOVES it, because it allows him to pull out his penis and tell players to suck it?
They steal power from Richard Dawkins?quanta wrote:Whoa, whoa, whoa. Ur-Priests are clearly anti-atheist too since they steal power from what atheists worship
Ah, I see why they have the "always Evil" tag.
Simplified Tome Armor.
Tome item system and expanded Wish Economy rules.
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“Those Who Can Make You Believe Absurdities, Can Make You Commit Atrocities” - Voltaire
Tome item system and expanded Wish Economy rules.
Try our fantasy card game Clash of Nations! Available via Print on Demand.
“Those Who Can Make You Believe Absurdities, Can Make You Commit Atrocities” - Voltaire
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Psychic Robot wrote:gx1080 is a great trollposter, I encourage him getting fucked up the ass. to post more
Ah fixed. Emphasis mine. Bent the thread with that ur-priest shite.
Here's something different.
Most of the other boards accept (and debate regularly) the tier system.
The Gaming Den? Pissed on that system, and cast it from Valhalla, etc, etc...
Don't hate the world you see, create the world you want....
...If only you'd have stopped forever...Dear Midnight, you have actually made me sad. I took a day off of posting yesterday because of actual sadness you made me feel in my heart for you.
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Gx1080 wrote:@Midnight_v
Well, fuck you too.
Nyahh, I was just fucking with ya. . .
Don't hate the world you see, create the world you want....
...If only you'd have stopped forever...Dear Midnight, you have actually made me sad. I took a day off of posting yesterday because of actual sadness you made me feel in my heart for you.
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B-b-but the archivist can totally own a beguiler if the DM loves archvists enough!Midnight_v wrote:Psychic Robot wrote:gx1080 is a great trollposter, I encourage him getting fucked up the ass. to post more
Ah fixed. Emphasis mine. Bent the thread with that ur-priest shite.
Here's something different.
Most of the other boards accept (and debate regularly) the tier system.
The Gaming Den? Pissed on that system, and cast it from Valhalla, etc, etc...