Brute (barbarian + totemist), incarnum issues

[Bigode]

Magic of Incarnum was basically a straight up focus group pitch. It's an honest attempt to fix the magic item problems with wealth-by-level. It's just not even remotely ready for prime time because it's a fvcking focus group pitch rather than a playtested game. (...) All of the bullshit in MoI is simply because it's a first draft.

While some of the flaws are pretty obvious, does anyone care to elaborate on said bullshit?

That, and, of course, the fact that, thinking both the PHB barbarian and the totemist suffer at high levels, I tried mixing those to see how far the result can hold its own. It's intended to play roughly the same game as the rogue (with prerequisite checking for feats, mind - I know RAW supports otherwise, but probably RAI didn't) or ranger, so to say. Tearing is appreciated - thanks for your time.

Hit Die: d12.
Attack: good.
Fortitude: good.
Reflex/Will: poor.

Class Skills (4 skill points): Autohypnosis, Balance, Climb, Craft, Handle Animal, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge (nature), Listen, Profession, Ride, Spot, Survival, Swim.

Soulmelds: 1 + (level / 3).
Essentia: level * 3 / 4.
Binds: (level + 2) / 4.

Class Features
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A brute is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, with light and medium armor, and with shields (except tower shields).
Meldshaping: As totemist.
Chakra Binds: As totemist.
Rage (Ex): A brute can fly into a rage a certain number of times per day. While raging, a brute cannot use any Charisma-, Dexterity-, or Intelligence-based skills (except for Balance, Escape Artist, Intimidate, and Ride), the Concentration, Heal and Profession skills, or any abilities that require patience or concentration, nor can he cast spells or activate magic items that require a command word, a spell trigger (such as a wand), or spell completion (such as a scroll) to function. He can use any feat he has except Combat Expertise, item creation feats, and metamagic feats.
A fit of rage lasts for a number of rounds equal to 3 + the character’s Constitution modifier. A brute may prematurely end his rage. At the end of the rage, the brute loses the rage modifiers and restrictions and becomes fatigued (–2 penalty to Strength, –2 penalty to Dexterity, can’t charge or run) for the duration of the current encounter (unless he is a 18th-level brute, at which point this limitation no longer applies; see below).
A brute can fly into a rage only once per encounter. At 1st level he can use his rage ability once per day. At 4th level and every four levels thereafter, he can use it one additional time per day (to a maximum of six times per day at 20th level). Entering a rage takes no time itself, but a brute can do it only during his action, not in response to someone else’s action.
There are three types of rage, based on different aspects of nature. At 1st level, a brute must choose one of them.
Animal Rage (Ex): In an animal rage, a brute temporarily gains a +4 bonus to Strength, 2 temporary hit points per class level, and a +2 bonus on Fortitude and Will saves, but he takes a –2 penalty to Armor Class. Any temporary hit points remaining at the end of the rage disappear. He also gains low-light vision and scent for the duration of the animal rage, which allows him to see twice as far as a normal human in conditions of poor illumination, and detect opponents within 30 feet by sense of smell.
Elemental Fury (Su): In an elemental fury, a brute temporarily gains a +4 bonus to Strength, a +10 feet bonus to speed, and resistance to cold, electricity, and fire equal to his class level. He also gains darkvision out to a range of 60 feet and does not need to breathe for the duration of the elemental fury. Not needing to breathe makes him immune to airborne diseases, inhaled poisons, and at the DM's discretion, certain other forms of gaseous attacks like a belker's smoke claws.
Ki Frenzy (Ex): In a ki frenzy, a brute temporarily gains a +4 bonus to Strength, a +2 bonus to Armor Class, and a +2 bonus on Reflex saves. He may also make one extra attack in a round at his highest base attack bonus (which does not have to be part of a full attack), but this attack takes a -2 penalty, as does each other attack made that round. This penalty applies for 1 round, so it also effects attacks of opportunity he might make before his next turn.
Totem Chakra Bind: As totemist.
Totem's Protection (Ex): As totemist.
Damage Reduction (Ex): At 4th level, a brute gains Damage Reduction. Subtract 1 from the damage the brute takes each time he is dealt damage from a weapon or a natural attack. At 7th level, and every three brute levels thereafter (10th, 13th, 16th, and 19th level), this damage reduction rises by 1 point. Damage reduction can reduce damage to 0 but not below 0.
Unlike most damage reduction, this ability stacks with any flat (—) damage reduction from other sources. For example, a 19th level brute wearing an adamantine breastplate would have a total of damage reduction 7/—.
Rebind Totem Soulmeld (Su): As totemist.
Greater Rage: At 10th level, a brute’s bonuses during a rage improve, depending on which type he selected at 1st level.
Animal Rage (Ex): The brute's bonus to Strength increases to +6, he gains 3 temporary hit points per class level, his bonuses on Fortitude and Will saves increase to +3, and his penalty to Armor Class is reduced to -1. He also gains mettle for the duration of the animal rage.
Elemental Fury (Su): The brute's bonus to Strength increases to +6, his bonus to speed increases to +15 feet, and his darkvision range increases to 90 feet. He also gains the ability to burrow, fly (good maneuverability), and swim at half his land speed for the duration of the elemental fury.
Ki Frenzy (Ex): The brute's bonus to Strength increases to +6, his bonuses to Armor Class and on Reflex saves each increase to +3, and if he makes an extra attack in a round, that attack and all others only take a -1 penalty. He also gains evasion for the duration of the ki frenzy.
Indomitable Will (Ex): As barbarian, except at level 13.
Tireless Rage (Ex): As barbarian, except at level 18.
Mighty Rage: At 19th level, a brute’s bonuses during a rage improve again, depending on which type he selected at 1st level.
Animal Rage (Ex): The brute's bonus to Strength increases to +8, he gains 4 temporary hit points per class level, his bonuses on Fortitude and Will saves increase to +4, and his penalty to Armor Class is eliminated. He also gains improved mettle for the duration of the animal rage.
Elemental Fury (Su): The brute's bonus to Strength increases to +8, his bonus to speed increases to +20 feet, and his darkvision range increases to 120 feet. He also gains the ability to burrow, fly (perfect maneuverability), and swim at his full land speed for the duration of the elemental fury.
Ki Frenzy (Ex): The brute's bonus to Strength increases to +8, his bonuses to Armor Class and on Reflex saves each increase to +4, and if he makes an extra attack in a round, none of his attacks take a penalty. He also gains improved evasion for the duration of the ki frenzy.
Totem Embodiment (Su): As totemist, except at level 19.

[Username17]

The core problem of course is that you're still using Incarnum basically uneditted. Seriously, one of your soulmelds gives you extra actions (three fold chimera mask), while another gives you Leather Armor and a flask of Acid (Ankheg Breastplate). And that's the deal, some of this stuff is the equivalent of powerful magical items and some of it is the equivalent of stanbdard equipment.

-Username17

[CalibronXXX]

Take a sharpie and just blot out certain soulmelds in the book. Some of them are literally that bad, most of the others can be tweaked or re-imagined to be balanced with a rogue power-level; to switch it over to the Tome series power level you need to change everything. I recently started working on doing just that.

So far it looks like Soul Chakra level effects(those that aren't idiotically weak[30' enhancement bonus to land speed! Chaos sucks so bad.]) are slated to be available to the single Incarnum base class at level 15 or 16, Heart Chakra at 11 to 13, and Waist/Throat at level 7; others to be determined at a later date.

[Bigode]

Frank: while that is true, it's pretty much a problem scattered through the entirety of D&D - what subsystem doesn't have a corner where you get just bonuses and another where you get just options? So, while the problem does exist, I was asking about issues specific to incarnum, if any. Also, I do plan on using "editted incarnum" soon.

Calibron: so, you are making a new incarnum base class? To be used with the Tomes, I suppose?

Also, what I did expect was that with good soulmeld selection, you could make this guy play the same game as a rogue - any comments on my success (or lack thereof, of course) on it?

[Username17]

I was asking about issues specific to incarnum, if any.

That's reasonable. The issues of Incarnum are somewhat complex, because the system is somewhat complex. Hell, that's one of its issues.

First: I don't want to talk about Incarnum Feats, because I don't think they're salvagable at all. Each one may or may not grant level appropriate abilities, almost none of them scale, and all of them turn you blue. It's dumb. And most importantly it is incomprehensible, as the "Open Chakras" feats don't even once mention the all important question of whether they actually increase the number of chakra binds you can have at one time.

So. We're assuming for the moment that people are instead running around with just the Class Features and possibly the equipment. So let's go through just those problems:

• Essentia is a Divergeant Quantity Let's say you've got something stupid like Blood Talons. It's kind of crappy, but it's at the beginning of the section and it illustrates what I'm talking about. Let's say you're a 6th level Totemist and you have this bloody stupid thing. You have the choice to put up to 3 of your Essentia into it, and if you do you get +6 to Spot, +3 to damage, and +3 to attack rolls. If you put in none, you get +0, +0, and +0. In short, it dynamically contributes to pushing people off the RNG.
  
  
• Characters have to manage the entire spell list every day. Every day you reshape your stuff you have to go through the whole list and figure out what you want. Everything is unsorted, unleveled, and unmarked. If you're going on an underwater adventure you might want to get a Kraken Mantle bound to your Totem because this gives you water breathing. But this option comes around at level 2 and the cost iis pretty much the same all the way to level 20 - you only get the one Totem and all the Totems are equally available right from the start.
  
  
• Essentia Doesn't do anything consistent. Remember that Kraken Mantle from the previous example? It doesn't give you anything for Essentia put into it. You get an additional 5 feet to your move while swimming for every two Essentia put in. It's a cruel prank. On the flip side, there are a bunch of soulmelds which give you +2 to two different skills for each Essentia put in, if these are Chakra bound they often give additional benefits for essentia as well. But hey, sometimes they don't.
  
  
• The Higher Level Options Aren't. You get a Throat Chakra at 14th level. At that point you can set aside one of your four Chakra binds to deliver a single target Save-or-Die that has a range of 5 feet once per day out of a Gorgon Mask. What the hell man, what the hell?

So let's say that you want to have a Three-fold Mask of the Chimera and a Blink Shirt so that you can spend every round using dimensin door to move out of cover, attack, and then dimension door right back into cover. You need a Crown Chakra and a Soul Chakra. This requires you to be 6th level.

Let's say you want to get some fvcking spell resistance. Good luck with that. First off, you're 17th level to even have a Heart Chakra to bind things to. Secondly, you're allowed to put up to 3 Essentia into things that aren't bound to your Totem. So if you put on your Dread Carapace and max out the Essentia in it, you have a Spell Resistance of 5 + 12 = 17! Holy shit, you're seventeenth level. This means that a level appropriate spell caster who turns on you with a spell of some kind needs to roll at least a zero on a d20 in order to get through your SR.

So that's the basic set of problems. The abilities are pretty much random vomit on a page with no thought or design put in to what level they should appear at or what they should be good for.

-Username17

[Catharz]

Just so this isn't a newbie trap, I'd suggest browsing through Incarnum and selecting the good soulmelds which aren't too far out of flavor or broken good. Make this the class's list of melds, instead of the totemist's.

In effect, you'll be doing the editing Frank is talking about. Then it will be easier to guage the power level, because I, for one, have now idea how much of a boost this meldshaping stuff is.

[CalibronXXX]

Frank's observations are dead on as per usual, but you don't need me to tell you that.

There's no such thing as a broken good soulmeld as far as I can tell. Yeah even Landshark Boots, Girallon Arms or TFMotC don't seem all that crazy, though Landshark Boots do kind of push it.

Bigode: Yes, and I'm probably going to call it the Incarnate, because I haven't got an original bone in my body. I've managed to concretely determine this much so far.

*16 levels long(because I'm not even going to pretend anyone is going to play a Tome game at level 17+)

*Access to all Soulmelds

*Poor BaB

*Good Fort and Will saves

*Slightly better essentia, soulmeld, and chakra bind progression than the MoI Incarnate

*Totem Chakra at level 1

*Crown, Hands, Feet at level 2

*Throat, Waist, Shoulders at level 7(yes I know shoulders is supposed to be Lesser and throat/waist are supposed to be Greater, but it doesn't seem to work that way in practice.)

*So far the following Soulmelds have been marked for definite deletion: Flame Cincture, Illusion Veil, Lifebond Vestments, Necrocarnum Mantle, Necrocarnmun Touch, and Therapeutic Mantle

*So far these are set for possible deletion or major overhaul: Bloodwar Gauntlets, Necrocarnum Weapon

*And these have already undergone some tweaking/reimagining: Adamant Pauldrons, Incarnate Avatar, Lammasu Mantle, Mantle of Flame, Necrocarnum Shroud, Necrocarnum Vestments, Planar Chausable

[Bigode]

Thanks, all.

Catharz: will look around for crappy soulmelds too, starting by Calibron's deletion list. Also, will give some examples of good ones for easier judgement.

Calibron: no worries, I'm looking for my original bones too (never found any).

First: I don't want to talk about Incarnum Feats, because I don't think they're salvagable at all. Each one may or may not grant level appropriate abilities, almost none of them scale, and all of them turn you blue. It's dumb. And most importantly it is incomprehensible, as the "Open Chakras" feats don't even once mention the all important question of whether they actually increase the number of chakra binds you can have at one time.

What'd be the problems if one took all the incarnum feats (the ones that really have the descriptor) that give bonuses equal to essentia and made them be resizable per-round like soulmelds (but see next quote)?

Essentia is a Divergeant Quantity. Let's say you've got something stupid like Blood Talons. It's kind of crappy, but it's at the beginning of the section and it illustrates what I'm talking about. Let's say you're a 6th level Totemist and you have this bloody stupid thing. You have the choice to put up to 3 of your Essentia into it, and if you do you get +6 to Spot, +3 to damage, and +3 to attack rolls. If you put in none, you get +0, +0, and +0. In short, it dynamically contributes to pushing people off the RNG.

While it surely can be qualified as getting off the RNG if piled enough, isn't that ultimately what every buff does? Further, isn't that just a case of "hey, choose wisely - otherwise you get screwed"? And actually, if you do something dumb on a round, you can correct it in the next (granted, unless you die), which is better than what can be said of per-day subsystems; so, what's the real bad part?

Characters have to manage the entire spell list every day. Every day you reshape your stuff you have to go through the whole list and figure out what you want. Everything is unsorted, unleveled, and unmarked. If you're going on an underwater adventure you might want to get a Kraken Mantle bound to your Totem because this gives you water breathing. But this option comes around at level 2 and the cost iis pretty much the same all the way to level 20 - you only get the one Totem and all the Totems are equally available right from the start.

Amen, brother, preach it. Question, though: let's suppose a "soulmeld" was a package with abilities added as the levels pass, and a character had a soulmelds known list. Would there be any problems if any could be learned from level 1?

Remember that Kraken Mantle from the previous example? It doesn't give you anything for Essentia put into it. You get an additional 5 feet to your move while swimming for every two Essentia put in. It's a cruel prank.
...
So let's say that you want to have a Three-fold Mask of the Chimera and a Blink Shirt so that you can spend every round using dimensin door to move out of cover, attack, and then dimension door right back into cover. You need a Crown Chakra and a Soul Chakra. This requires you to be 6th level.

While I agree about the random vomit (especially RM and nerfed spell 1/day), I felt obliged to point that the mantle does give 5ft./essentia, and the cover combo would take next round's action AFAICT, so no repeating.

[Catharz]

This is kinda orthogonal to what you're doing, but you might want to take a look at the MtG RPG thread for an example of an Incarnum-like system with promise (which never really got off the ground...).

[Username17]

I felt obliged to point that the mantle does give 5ft./essentia

Ah... that's how they fool you. The Kraken Mantle gives you 5 ft. of movement per Essentia for a full round action - that's only 5 ft./two Essentia for a Move.

Question, though: let's suppose a "soulmeld" was a package with abilities added as the levels pass, and a character had a soulmelds known list. Would there be any problems if any could be learned from level 1?

So basically, what if Incarnum was just another list of [Combat] feats? Yeah, that would work. I still don't think that Essentia does anything good however.

-Username17

[RandomCasualty]

1183559598[/unixtime]]

Essentia is a Divergeant Quantity. Let's say you've got something stupid like Blood Talons. It's kind of crappy, but it's at the beginning of the section and it illustrates what I'm talking about. Let's say you're a 6th level Totemist and you have this bloody stupid thing. You have the choice to put up to 3 of your Essentia into it, and if you do you get +6 to Spot, +3 to damage, and +3 to attack rolls. If you put in none, you get +0, +0, and +0. In short, it dynamically contributes to pushing people off the RNG.

While it surely can be qualified as getting off the RNG if piled enough, isn't that ultimately what every buff does?

This is the problem with scaling buffs and why buffs shouldn't scale at all. They should just be flat bonuses. As Frank said, that just leads to divergence in the system.

[CalibronXXX]

1183568427[/unixtime]]
This is the problem with scaling buffs and why buffs shouldn't scale at all. They should just be flat bonuses. As Frank said, that just leads to divergence in the system.

When it comes to the incarnum classes, soulmelds and essentia aren't buffs, they're totally your class features. I don't see a real problem with the general Incarnum system as long as it's refined properly; hing'll be set up so that when you want to do your level appropriate business you put your maximum amount of essentia in the meld that you're using to perform said action.

You pick some class features from the list at the beginning of the day depending on what your expecting have to deal with and can make a number of these level appropriate at a moments notice and switch them off if you have to use a different class feature, or make one, likely the one that constitutes your actual action, level appropriate and spread your power between other defensive or augmentative class features so that the whole of them working together amounts to approximately level appropriateness.

It's like a wizard that you don't have to worry about Novaing all his level appropriate spells away as soon as you run into trouble.

Obviously WoTC did a horrible job with it, but I don't see why some of you seem so against the whole premise.

[Bigode]

Catharz: do you play with incarnum at all? If you still don't have an idea about the class' power level with the modifications below, tell me and I'll show a level 20 soulmeld selection if you have any interest. Also, thanks for pointing to the M:tG thread, but the issue was that I had seen that, and couldn't try to help getting it off on count of knowing next to nothing about Magic (and maybe my comments on soulmelds below will lead some to think I know next to nothing about D&D too ...). If did seem to have some promise - by the way, who knows if the misspelled roof kitten isn't working alone on it for now?

For the moment those are the levels at which the brute is getting bind acesses:

totem - 2;
crown/feet/hands - 5;
arms/brow/shoulders - 9;
throat/waist - 14;
heart - 17.

And below is what'd be the brute soulmeld list with the changes I'd make thus far. Suggestions, insults and assassination threats are all welcome, as long as it's known I don't wanna compete with RAW spellcasters.

Ankheg breastplate - somewhat lackluster, but the totem seems workable.

Basilisk mask: sucks - hard. Quick fix: brow gives blindsight to half darkvision range, and totem is a free action once per round.

Beast tamer circlet: sucky. Quick fix: the crown effect gets moved into the totem too, and the crown gives an animal companion - unsure whether as a druid or half.

Behir gorget - hilariously similar to ankheg breastplate, and workable for the same reason.

Blink shirt - decent (go dimension door).

Bloodtalons - uses Dex instead of Str for damage too.

Bloodwar gauntlets - arms once per minute instead of unshaping, and possibly greater area too. Also, maybe someday it'll gain an actual totem bind.

Bluesteel bracers - intiative? Sign me in! But maybe the arms bind could make it scale per essentia; also, totem here too.

Brass mane: assuming the roar to be a free action, I've seen enough interesting Intimidate uses lately as to find this interesting.

Cerulean sandals - granted, the redundancy is due to it originally not being for totemists, but the unshaping is retarded nonetheless. Since you'd want a blink shirt for using teleporting as a move, maybe making this allow a run as a standard action (without terrain worries)?

Disenchanter mask - Spellcraft check? What Spellcraft check? Also, thinking about identify as a standard action on the brow too.

Dread carapace - no attack penalty, RM 5 + meldshaper level + double essentia.

Fearsome mask - brow allows frightening as standard. Totem?

Frost helm - fine.

Girallon arms - yay.

Gorgon mask - throat effect at will as standard; dunno what to do to make the totem at all workable beyond first levels.

Great raptor mask - brow also doubles precision ranges, such as for sneak attack.

Heart of fire - insight bonus doubled, and the grappling damage stacks (if one goes through binding in two chakras).

Hunter's circlet - totem gives true scent; what about crown?

Impulse boots - fine (except for no totem).

Kraken mantle - double speed bonus, adds essentia to the arms' grapple damage.

Krenshar mask - fine.

Kruthik claws - uses Dex instead of Str for damage too.

Lamia belt - claws as primary, of course.

Lammasu mantle - both AC and save bonuses are essentia + 2.

Landshark boots - yes, you can pinpoint.

Manticore belt - fine.

Mauling gauntlets - may give Improved Natural Attack for one natural weapon instead of Improved Unarmed Strike. Totem ...

Pauldrons of health - workable (besides totem).

Pegasus cloak - fine.

Phase cloak - fine.

Phoenix belt - waist heals instantly, period.

Rageclaws - while hp's below 1/4, +double essentia (hands).

Riding bracers - mounted bonuses are +2+essentia and totem gives mounts improved evasion.

Sailor's bracers - adds to Balance too (yes, I've seen some interesting uses), arms give swim speed = land speed, dammit!

Shadow mantle - fine.

Shedu crown - immunity to tripping too; etherealness as standard for essentia rounds; same quickly-useless totem (and same doubts about what to do) as gorgon mask.

Sighting gloves - insight to attack too, and Improved Precise Shot on the hands (this totem should be interesting ...).

Sphinx claws - no more the idiocy of having the exact same (base) effect as mauling gauntlets, only at half strength.

Strongheart vest - fine. Totem?

Threefold mask of the chimera - yay!

Thunderstep boots - fine (except totem).

Totem avatar - arms give improved grab, heart gives "DR" (5+double essentia)/NOTHING (not even magic).

Unicorn horn - detect evil is swift, bonus damage against undead is 1d6 per essentia.

Urskan greaves - totem gives Improved Overrun.

Vitality belt - fine (another interesting totem).

Winter mask - another +1d4 per essentia; fine.

Worg pelt - fine.

Wormtail belt - Awesome Blow as an attack action with normal DC (based on damage).


Do note, people, that I didn't even try at all to address the direct damage binds - since they're binds, I can simply pretend they don't exist, since even making evocation spells not suck is sort of a challenge - imagine chakra binds! Aside from that, these changes seem like a start to make soulmelds in general (not just clearly best choices, as is the case officially) put this brute at rogue-level power (I'm not aiming for Tome series because IMCs, magic saw the nerfhammer, and another GM here just banned it for our last campaign*). Of course, I can still draw some inspiration from Calibron's modifications, even if not using all of them.

*: I suppose he'll readmit it at any time when I finish putting it visibly around psionics/incarnum/blade magic level.

Finally, I couldn't have expounded on the merits of the incarnum system better than Calibron - that's why I do still bother with this. So, Frank: you said you don't believe essentia does any good; is this different paradigm (ignoring the minutiae of the current implementation) a bad thing?

[CalibronXXX]

The class isn't quite finished, but I more or less finished all the alterations to the Soulmelds and binds in the book. Here's how it turned out:

Dropped Soulmelds:
Ankheg Breastplate, Arcane Focus, Blood Talons, Dread Carapace, Flame Cincture, Great Raptor Mask, Illusion Veil, Incarnate Avatar*, Krenshar Mask, Kruthik Claws, Lamia Belt, Lifebond Vestments, Necrocarnum Mantle, Necrocarnum Touch, Phoenix Belt, Unicorn Horn, Urskan Greaves, Ythrak Mask
*Now a Class Ability

Probationary Soulmelds:
Behir Gorget, Bloodwar Gautlets, Disenchanter Mask, Lucky Dice, Necrocarnum Weapon

Dropped Chakra Binds:
Basilisk Mask(Totem), Brass Mane(Totem), Lammasu Mantle(Shoulders)(Totem), Mauling Gauntlets(Arms), Pegasus Cloak(Totem), Planar Chasuble(Brow), Therapeutic Mantle(Shoulders), Totem Avatar(Heart)(Shoulders)(Totem)

Basic Soulmeld Changes:
Acrobat Boots Feet Bind reduces falling damage by 2d6+2d6 per essential invested.

Airstep Sandals’ basic function now causes you to fall at the end of your turn, instead of at the end of your move action.

Apparition Ribbon’s basic function now reads “Whenever you attack an incorporeal creature your attack is considered magic for the purposes of affecting incorporeal creatures, and if you miss due to miss chance for incorporealness you may re-roll for miss chance once to see if actually hit.

Armguards of Disruption are no longer restricted to one use per round and are usable as an attack action.

Bink Shirt’s Dimension Door effect is not bound by the clause in the Dimension Door spell that disallows you from taking actions after using it.

Cerulean Sandals’ basic function now reads “you are affected by a constant Balancing Lorecall effect; if you meldshaper level+ranks in balance+essentia invested in this soulmeld equal or exceed 10 you are treated as having 10 or more ranks in balance for he purpose of the Balancing Lorecall effect.”

Crystal Helm now gives a +2 bonus on Will Saves against Mind-Effecting effects instead of just Charm and Compulsion.

Dissolving Spittle can now be used as an attack action.

Enigma Helm’s nondetection effect DC increases by one point for every point of essentia invested.

Gloves of the Poisoned Soul lose the once per target per 24 hours restriction.

Incarnate Weapon appears however the Incarnate wishes it to, much like a Soul Knife’s Mind Blade. It is treated as a small sized object that deals 1d8 damage with either a 19-20 threat range or a x3 critical multiplier as the Incarnate prefers. It is considered an aligned weapon compatible with one of the aspects of the Incarnate’s alignment; if Incarnate is True Neutral it instead bypasses one type of material damage reduction of your choice.

Kraken Mantle basic function now reads “You gain a +8 competence bonus of swim checks, and you gain a swim speed of 30 feet.”

Kraken Mantle now increases your swim speed by 10 feet for every point of essentia invested.

Lightning Gauntlets can be used as an attack action.

Necrocarnum Mantle grants you a number of temporary hit points equal to twice the number of essentia invested whenever it would grant you the bonus to attack and damage rolls. These Temp HP last until the beginning of your next turn.

Planar Chasuble’s type of energy resistance is now chosen upon shaping the meld each day.

Thunderstep Boots basic function now reads “Thunderstep Boots inflict 1d4 sonic damage on any creature or object you hit with a charge attac, or successfully trample, overrun, or bulrush.



Chakra Bind Changes:
Acrobat Boots’ Feet Bind now reads “you reduce falling damage by 2d6 and an additional 2d6 per essential invested.”

Airstep Sandals’ Feet Bind now reads “the maneuverability category of your air-step sandals changes from good to perfect. For every point of essential invested in your Airstep Sandals you may spend an additional turn unsupported without falling.”

Adamant Pauldrons Shoulders Bind now reads “The amounts of fortification and damage reduction granted to you by this soulmeld double.”

Basilisk Mask’s Brow Chakra now functions as it’s Totem Chakra would, with this exception: The target turned to stone by the Basilisk Mask remains turned to stone for a number of rounds equal to the Essentia Invested in the Basilisk Mask.

Blink Shirt’s Heart Bind is activatable/deactivatable as a free action.

Bluesteel Bracers’ Arms Bind now reads “All Allies within 30’ of you gain a +2 Insight Bonus to Initiative checks; your insight bonus to initiative checks increases to +4.

Displacer Mantle’s Totem Bind no longer comes with the restriction of the tentacles not being able to make AoOs; the tentacles can also be used as part of a full-attack or standard action attack as normal for natural weapons.

Fellmist Robe’s Soul Bind now causes what is effectively a Solid Fog effect to emanate from you out to a range of 10 feet+10 feet per point of essential invested; the fog does not hinder your movement, vision, or attacks or the movement and attack of your allies. You can willing disperse or re-activate the fog as a full-round action.

Frost Helm’s Crown Bind can be used as an attack action instead of a standard action.

Hunter’s Circlet’s Totem Bind gives scent with a 30ft. range.

Incarnate Avatar’s Soul Bind Always gives the benefits of the Law Incarnate’s Incarnate Avatar regardless of Alignment. Additionally it gives you the an additional saving throw to negate Ability Damage, Ability Drain, and Energy Drain incurred; this provides a saving throw against effects that would not normally allow one. For effects that do not normally allow saving throws calculate Save DCs thusly, for spells the DC is normal for that type and level of spell cast by the caster, for Spell-like or Supernatural abilities the DC is Caster Hit Dice/2+Cha Mod, and for Extraordinary abilities the DC is Caster Hit Dice/2+relevant ability mod.

Landshark Boots Gains an Arms Bind that reads “you gain a burrow speed of 10 feet; every point of essentia invested increases your burrow speed by 5 feet.

Lightning Gauntlets’ Hands Bind adds the damage to every attack made in a round with a handheld weapon instead of just one.

Mantle of Flame’s Shoulders Bind effect now does damage equal to 1d6+1d6 per point of essentia invested+meldshaper level

Necrocarnum Shroud’s Waist Bind now causes both the Sickened(Fort Negates) and Shaken(Will Negates) statuses for one round.

Necrocarnum Shroud’s Soul Chakra now reads “As a Standard Action you may make a melee touch attack that, if successful, inflicts a number of negative levels equal to the number of essential invested in your Necrocarnum Shroud(Fort half). Each negative level bestowed grants you 1 temporary point of essentia and 5 temporary hit points; the essential lasts until the end of your next turn and the temporary hit points last an hour.”

Necrocarnum Vestments Waist Bind now inflicts 1d6 points of cold damage+1d6 per point of essentia invested(Fort Negates) to creates adjacent to you at the end of your turn.

Pegasus Cloak’s Shoulders Bind fly speed is equal to 10 feet plus 10 feet per point of essentia invested.

Rage Claw’s Hands Bind now reads “when below natural(not increased or decreased by effects or magic items) Constitution Mod*Hit Dice HP you gain a morale bonus equal to 2+essential invested on attack rolls, damage rolls, and fortitude saves.

Sailor’s Bracers’ Arms bind now reads “you take no penalties for under water action(as if under the effects of a freedom of movement spell. You gain an insight bonus on damage rols against aquatic creatures equal to twice the essentia invested, you may also hold you breath for a number of minutes equal to essentia invested above and beyond how long you could normally hold your breath.”

Shadow Mantle’s Shoulders Bind now has a range of 10 feet per point of essentia invested.

Silver Tongue Mask’s Throat Bind now lets you simultaneously make a Suggestion to as many creatures as you have essentia invested.

Therapeutic Mantle now has a Hands Bind; it reads “you gain a +2 Competence bonus on Heal checks, an additional +2 bonus per point of essential invested, and an Insight bonus on melee damage rolls made against flat-footed or flanked opponents per point of essentia invested.

Threefold Mask of the Chimera’s Crown Bind no longer limits you to a single standard or move action when you used the Bind’s granted power in the previous round.

Threefold Mask of the Chimera’s Soul Bind no longer stops you from taking actions when you used the Bind’s granted power in the previous round.

Winter Mask’s Throat Bind now gives a cone breath weapon with a range of 5 feet plus 5 feet per point of essential invested.

Worg Pelt’s Hands Bind allows a free trip attempt after an attack with any natural weapon instead of just a bite attack.

Wormtail Belt’s Waist Bind now gives access to the Knockback feat onstead of Awesome Blow

Wormtail Belt’s Totem Bind now reads “You gain a Stinger Natural Attack that deals 1d6+strength damage. Your stinger attack is poisonous, it deals 1d4 strength primary and 1d4 strength secondary damage.

Haven't really worked out what to do with the probationary soulmelds yet. I'm think of making Incarnate Weapon into a class feature instead of a soulmeld like I did with Inarnate Avatar. Also, I arbitrarily decided that essentia capacity increases at levels 6, 11, and 16, instead of 6, 12, and 18.

[Username17]

Essentia is a complex and entirely pointless substance. It doesn't do anything good. Things should simply scale to your level (in the case of actions) or not scale at all (in the case of bonuses). Moving Essentia around is a pain in the ass and doesn't do anything good.

The Essentia quantity should be rubbed off entirely. Each of your powers should just be level appropriate all the time.

-Username17

[Catharz]

Essentia as a quantity could still work in the following way: Start with all chakras open. Shaping a meld invests 1 essentium into it. Binding it to any chakra costs another essentium, and multiple bindings are by default allowed. Just like spells, melds could have a minimum character level to use.

As you say, bonuses shouldn't scale while abilities should. Some investments will give bonuses and others will give abilities. This is inherently unbalanced, and will help to push things off the RNG. We're talking about D&D, and that's just how things work.

While it would be possible to come up with some convention like 'shaping a meld grants an ability' and 'binding a meld grants a bonus', it's almost certainly not worthwhile.

[Bigode]

Catharz: yeah, that's the M:tG paradigm, so to say. But I don't think it'd be that hard to establish such a convention. The real problem is that I'm not really sure whether it's possible at all to respect RNGs in D&D - I mean, it's sufficiently wacked-out from the PHB (yeah, even before the druid gets to choose forms ...).

Frank: while your comments are solid from an abstract design standpoint (or from a SAME - thus quasi-concrete - standpoint, of course), this is the same game that has magic* (more complex and more RNG-breaking), so I don't find any good reason to drop it (at least until M:tG or something similar gets done). Besides, essentia is essentially (pardon the pun) a pile of PA/CE feats - how could it be complex (especially in the eyes of a transmuter lover)?

*: seriously, the main reason of my interest in incarnum is finding it much better than daily paradigms, which are born broken with the bright excuse "Hey, it's broken just once per day - and it's balanced because they suck the remaining time!", which is crappy at face value, not even particularly true in D&D, and shouldn't have ever left wargaming.


Calibron, I wonder how many class features you'll have to put in your incarnate to make it match the RoW fighter (for example) - I'll even use your soulmeld changes verbatim (and thanks, of course)! Now, with those in place, what'd you say about the class? Also, some suggestions for the probationaries below (That said, do you really think dread carapace is fine as-written?).

Behir gorget: the line length doubles, and the damage is 2d6 (essentia +1).

Bloodwar gauntlets: +(essentia +1) bonus to attack and damage with handheld weapons, 40-ft. blast once per minute.

Disenchanter mask: detect magic as swift, identify at will as standard on the brow.

Lucky dice: bonuses equal +1 + essentia.

Necrocarnum weapon: double attack and confirmation bonuses.

[CalibronXXX]

The class itself is going to take a lot of tweaking, I've got the skeleton down, but the meat and fluff have yet to be added. Thanks for the suggestions for the probationary soulmelds I'll take them into consideration, and no, Dread Carapace was actually supposed to be on the dropped melds list, I just forgot to write it down.

[Bigode]

While I am waiting to see your incarnate, the class I actually asked about was mine (since we've got the class and the soulmelds written down, it's possible to talk about it now). On the dread carapace, with a unnerfed bite damage bonus (akin to the evil soulmelds) and my alternative RM formula (5 + meldshaper level + double invested essentia), don't you think it becomes at least worth looking over again?

[CalibronXXX]

Well as at a cursory glance, I have to admit I never looked at your class very hard, it seems as competent at melee as a Cleric that optimizes, but doesn't go crazy with spells like DMMP Delay Death, Death Ward, and whatever else you need to make yourself unkillable. Maybe better, I'm not really up on current DMM Cleric melee power.

It has some good mobility tricks, so it's not auto-jibbed by force cage. Without essentia capacity bonuses it'll never be a competitive sneaker, but he can sure notice stuff well when he puts his mind to it; without the Incarnate's skill melds and essentia capacity increases he'll never be a competitive skill character.

I'm no expert, but he seems to be to melee combat what a dedicated Rogue is to skills, 'cept he can switch his specialties around a bit from day to day. Seems roughly Rogue powered, maybe a bit more.

And yeah I suppose Dread Carapace might be workable, but I just don't see too much of a point, there are enough straight plus-damage melds as it is; and I'm not sure what "RM" is supposed to mean, so I can't comment.

[Bigode]

Well, the analysis points to it being more or less what I wanted out of it, which is great. Another question, if you don't mind, is whether the rages are in roughly the same usefulness level. About "RM", sorry about that - it was a runaway Portuguese shortening for "SR", which is why dread carapace may have had something worth worrying about.

[CalibronXXX]

Something tells me animal rage is a touch weaker than the other two, but I'm honestly probably under-valuing the defensive bonuses.

Dread Carpace's Heart Bind, a level 17 effect, giving a persisted version of a fifth level spell, with max essenita invested, suppressible as a swift action seems a little weak to me; but taking into account the Improved Soulmeld Capacity feat and the Incarnum Focus magic item for the Heart Chakra it does seem powerful enough.

[Bigode]

As Frank asked me how I'd melee an ogre with a gish, and I effectively said "I wouldn't", I decided to take a shot with the class of mine that was better built for melee. See below (obviously, this doubles as a bump).

--
Str 16
Dex 14
Con 14
Int 9
Wis 10
Cha 8

Equipment: masterwork chain shirt, masterwork longbow.
Soulmelds: rageclaws (totem, 2 essentia), wormtail belt.
Rage mode: ki frenzy.

HP 31
Init +2
Speed 30 ft.
AC 20
Atk +10/+10 (claws) or +8/+8/+8 (claws, frenzy) or +6 (longbow)
Dmg 1d6+7 (claw) or 1d8+5 (longbow)
Reach 5 ft.

As long as I don't get the reach exploited, it's a very likely win in close combat and sure at range (not that I expect an ogre to attempt it, but just for completeness' sake); even with reach exploiting attempts, I believe it's a close call, that would likely be won anyway due to the ability to fight up to -15 hp (of course, that's a very ugly situation to be, but not terribly likely). And that was made in 5 min, without acting on knowledge of the opponent (I consider that soulmeld selection pretty normal and not even that good), without touching feats at all, and without even considering non-numeric tactics, so there is probably a 3rd-level brute that mops the floor with the ogre.