Gilgamesh & Grendel: using D&D for ancient big folk

[Bihlbo]

I’m working on a new setting for a D&D game I plan to run, and I have something wacky planned for races and technology. I wanted some input from y’all on how to balance things to make it less terrible.

Plan: The era is “late bronze age”, to give it a term we generally understand. Weapons are usually stone, copper, or bronze. A big plot element is the Eeeevil Bad Guys begin using iron stuff that makes everyone else die faster.

Culturally, the world tends to have a positive view of the big things and a negative view of the small things. Small things bring disease and sneak around to steal babies, which makes by contrast larger creatures seam trustworthy, straightforward, and better at pulling plows.

Execution: Small races are generally Team Monster, so gnomes and halflings are off the PC races list. Elves are puny and untrustworthy, but generally they’re also polite so people don’t kill them for fun anymore. Everyone’s favorite powerful empire is the giants, who have absorbed the cultures of the ogres and trolls. These three, as such, are all Team Hero.

This means that of dwarf, elf, human and giant, ogre, troll, there are equal numbers of Medium and Large PC races. Level adjustments are foolish and bad, so I’ve gotta find a way for all six options to be fairly even.

The material hardness and hit point rules are not adequate to presenting a noticeable difference between the standard weapons and armor everyone uses, and the suddenly amazing stuff made of this mysterious “iron” substance.

Feedback?
What kinds of problems am I going to run into?
How do you make a Large race comparable with a Medium race without LA?
What’s the best way to change the weapons and armor to make them seem primitive in style and stats without changing most of the game?
How do you keep the armor structure of the game in the face of having little to no possibility of there being heavy armor made of bronze?
What vulgar names am I going to be called?

[Grek]

Give your players DR as per the UA Armour as DR rules, except that the DR is x/iron for bronze equipment, and x/- for the evil iron weapons. Anyone with heavy armour proficency gains AC as per the normal AC table (in addition to DR) while everyone without that proficency uses the reduced AC from the UA table. Disallow heavy armour, crossbows, rapiers, saps and whatever else is unthematic. The net effect of this is that your players will think "OMG, these iron weapons bypass armour! We get to steal some for ourselves!" while the actual mechanical effect for anyone that has heavy armour proficency is that they use the normal, non UA armour rules against anyone with iron weapons.

Trolls get fast healing 1, +2 Str, +2 Con and Large size.
Ogres get +4 natural armour, +4 Str, +2 Con and Large size.
Giants get rock throwing, +4 Str, +2 Con and Large size.

[DSMatticus]

How do you make a Large race comparable with a Medium race without LA?

If none of the medium PC's tries to melee, you don't even care. A wizard and a hill giant can chill side by side and the wizard is probably coming out ahead even if the hill giant has no LA's/HD. Being super strong doesn't do much by mid-level D&D.

If you're planning to focus on low-level D&D, I'd just design my own, more moderate races (somewhere on par with orc and half-ogre, I guess), worth 1 or 2 LA (but don't actually apply the LA, I mean), and if I thought some other PC was going to underperform compared to them in his field, I'd sit down and negotiate some bonuses with him.

What’s the best way to change the weapons and armor to make them seem primitive in style and stats without changing most of the game?

D&D doesn't really care what your weapons are made out of. There aren't really any mechanics that work there except when you're sundering, and sundering is so terrible nobody does it.

Do the armor is half DR rule, and then make your own DR system where materials overcome all weaker materials. So a guy in bronze chain shirt has 2 DR against other bronzers, and nothing against ironers. Though, really, you don't even have to mechanically represent this. You can just make it a fluff thing and move on. I recommend the fluff thing move on.

How do you keep the armor structure of the game in the face of having little to no possibility of there being heavy armor made of bronze?

Just don't allow bronze heavy armor?

What vulgar names am I going to be called?

A stick of assbutter.

Edit: Ninja'd and outdone by Grek. Do what he said.

[Lokathor]

Plan: The era is “late bronze age”, to give it a term we generally understand. Weapons are usually stone, copper, or bronze. A big plot element is the Eeeevil Bad Guys begin using iron stuff that makes everyone else die faster.

At the start of the Iron Age iron weapons sucked compared to bronze ones. Not to go all Dwarf Fortress on you, but maybe they have steel weapons instead?

[Josh_Kablack]

Assuming the exact final same stats and build a large character will have -1 to hit, -1 to AC, +1 to +3.5 average damage increase due to weapon size, 5' more reach, +4 to grapple, disarm and bullrush -4 to hide and increased carrying capacity compared to a medium character. They also benefit less from mounts and have some weird interactions with weight-based spells.

You'll note that those are pretty close to a fair trade off - large is slightly worse than medium unless you optimize for reach, grapple and/or weapons size increases that average more than +1.

Although players will probably expect large characters to get additional bonuses to Str and/or Con the way large monsters do - and it's easy for that to be unbalanced either way: At level 1-3 giving characters large str and con bonuses can be a very big deal and yet somewhere between 3rd and 7th level the stat bonuses that spells and items provide to physical stats become bigger than the bonus race provides, so having paid stat penalties or something for notable physical ability scores becomes a bad deal.

So I would be tempted to do some combination of the following for large races

• Give them moderate physical stat boosts but only run the game to 3rd or 4th level.
• Give them size-related abilities which are not physical stat boosts (natural armor, weapon attacks that add knockdown, etc)
• Give them physical ability bonuses which scale up with level
• Give them abilities to benefit more than usual from enhancement bonuses to physical ability scores
• Make certain size-related feats, spells and items available, both for and against large characters. There should be ways for Ogres to be passable stealth rogues, and there should be ways for Elves to equalize grapple bonuses against Trolls.
• Give them physical ability score bonuses on par with those monsters get, but start at 5th level or higher and be clear that the opposition will include a bunch of archery and spellcasting enemies.

[CatharzGodfoot]

There should be ways for Ogres to be passable stealth rogues, and there should be ways for Elves to equalize grapple bonuses against Trolls.

Meteor Ninja, Giant Slayer.

---

I think the most important thing is to strongly distinguish your large races, both mechanically and culturally. Scrags are good trolls, especially if you want bridge trolls, Grendel, and his mom. The immersion requirement for regeneration is a good balancing factor.
Troll
[*]Large humanoid [aquatic, amphibious].
[*]Speed 30', swim 30'.
[*]Constitution +2, Strength +4, Intelligence -2, Charisma -4.
[*]Natural armor +4.
[*]Regeneration 1 when mostly under water.
[*]Bite 1d8.
[*]Darkvision.

Ogres could be solitary (family groups only) nomadic or semi-nomadic forest dwellers. Like really smart grizzly bears.
Ogre
[*]Large monstrous humanoid.
[*]Speed 40'.
[*]Constitution +2, Strength +4, Intelligence -4, Charisma -2.
[*]Natural armor +3.
[*]2 claws 1d6, bite 1d6.
[*]Scent.
[*]Low-light vision.

Since giants are the civilizing influence, you need to figure out what their civilization is. Do they have a late stone-age jungle-dwelling culture with massive stone cities built via manual and elephant labor? Do they live in fortified mountain homes and keep giant herds of sheep, goats, and cattle? Do they near a fertile river delta and use advanced agricultural techniques to support their massive food consumption? All of the above?
Giant
[*]Large humanoid.
[*]Speed 30'.
[*]Strength +4, Constitution +2, Dexterity -2.
[*]Natural Armor +2.
[*]Rock throwing.

If they seem too powerful, give them two racial HD each with full BAB, skills & HP depending on the type, and +2 spell casting levels in the first spell casting class taken.

[Seerow]

If they seem too powerful, give them two racial HD each with full BAB, skills & HP depending on the type, and +2 spell casting levels in the first spell casting class taken.

What exactly is the point of racial HD if they still give everything you could want out of HD? Take out the full casting and it could be fine, but seriously racial HD where you continue to get the best class feature in the game may as well just not be there.

[CatharzGodfoot]

If they seem too powerful, give them two racial HD each with full BAB, skills & HP depending on the type, and +2 spell casting levels in the first spell casting class taken.

What exactly is the point of racial HD if they still give everything you could want out of HD? Take out the full casting and it could be fine, but seriously racial HD where you continue to get the best class feature in the game may as well just not be there.

The racial hit dice probably aren't a necessary balancing factor for giant/troll/ogre spell casters. You could put ogres and trolls behind by a single level so that they don't tear the world apart as clerics and druids at low level.

[tussock]

You might get problems with squeezing, hard for big guys to fit in Kobold warrens. No large mounts. Nothing major though.

You could forbid large reach weapons, so medium warriors can match them there with a longspear. Banning a buttload of gear is good for flavour in the Bronze age, battleaxe, shortsword, spear, and Scale or crappy Half-plate (MaxDex +1) with large shield as your best options. No compound longbows or crossbows, no Chain Shirt.
Let the early-iron-age guys have chain or splint and longswords (which is a small bastardsword), which are all exotic weapons for Bronze-age folk.

Hell, limit your large guys to large handaxe, dagger, and shortspear for weapons, or the classic large greatclub. You can ignore their LA then, just use a couple base HD.

Assuming 28 point buy for medium races.
2HD Ogres, 22 point buy. 3HD Trolls, 15 point buy, needs no armour make natural full attack and Rend. 4HD Hill Giants, 15 point buy. Give the big guys negative levels to earn off if you want to start below 4th.

[fectin]

The problems with squeezing are problems where some characters can do it and others can't, so you have to split the party, or skip adventure sections.

Let's not go back to centaurs though.

[violence in the media]

The problems with squeezing are problems where some characters can do it and others can't, so you have to split the party, or skip adventure sections.

I think tight spots where most or all of the party can't fit can be handled if you don't hang on to an insistance that the PCs go stab each kobold in the face, individually. The response to "we found a halfling warren" should be something along the lines of building fires and suffocating all of them and/or levering a megalith into it. "We send the elf cawling around down in there to stab them one by one" should not be a serious consideration.

[Grek]

You could forbid large reach weapons, so medium warriors can match them there with a longspear. Banning a buttload of gear is good for flavour in the Bronze age, battleaxe, shortsword, spear, and Scale or crappy Half-plate (MaxDex +1) with large shield as your best options. No compound longbows or crossbows, no Chain Shirt.
Let the early-iron-age guys have chain or splint and longswords (which is a small bastardsword), which are all exotic weapons for Bronze-age folk.

Hell, limit your large guys to large handaxe, dagger, and shortspear for weapons, or the classic large greatclub. You can ignore their LA then, just use a couple base HD.

Assuming 28 point buy for medium races.
2HD Ogres, 22 point buy. 3HD Trolls, 15 point buy, needs no armour make natural full attack and Rend. 4HD Hill Giants, 15 point buy. Give the big guys negative levels to earn off if you want to start below 4th.

These are all terrible suggestions which apparently exist just to fuck over your non-casters. Don't do these.

[Ice9]

These are all terrible suggestions which apparently exist just to fuck over your non-casters. Don't do these.

While those suggestions are over the top, most of the previous suggestions in here amount to "If you plan to fight in melee, ever, you are playing someone large". I mean, with these stats:

Trolls get fast healing 1, +2 Str, +2 Con and Large size.
Ogres get +4 natural armour, +4 Str, +2 Con and Large size.
Giants get rock throwing, +4 Str, +2 Con and Large size.

Who the hell would play an Elf or Dwarf? Maybe a Wizard ... maybe. Not one that was planning to use spells with melee touch attacks though.
Or are you assuming a similarly awesome baseline for Elves/Dwarves/Humans?

[Josh_Kablack]

[*]Constitution +2, Strength +4, Intelligence -2, Charisma -4.
[*]Natural armor +4.
[*]Regeneration 1 when mostly under water.
[*]Bite 1d8.
[*]Darkvision.

Ogres could be solitary (family groups only) nomadic or semi-nomadic forest dwellers. Like really smart grizzly bears.
Ogre
[*]Large monstrous humanoid.
[*]Speed 40'.
[*]Constitution +2, Strength +4, Intelligence -4, Charisma -2.

From a setting standpoint it's hard to see how the races with penalties to social skills and problem-solving are part of the dominant civilization and seen as trustworthy.

From a mechanics standpoint, the inability to be an effective arcane caster and the loss of skill points becomes a really bad deal by 7th level at the latest.

From a "why would I play that" standpoint, they don't have any flavor abilities which open up builds other than Dumbass Melee Fighter to them. (Arguably they are not even good at the DMF role because the size penalties are offset their stat mods to a larger degree than people like Ice9 realize)

So lemme put up some alternate versions. I'm going ignore shit that doesn't fucking matter like darkvision (if you want to argue that it does, lemme know so I can Ignore your idiocy properly in the future) and I'm gonna be a little fast and loose here - these are suggestions for part of someone else's homebrew so I'm not filling in numbers for movement speed or auto/bonus languages or any of that crap. I'm gonna present statlines that total to +0, even though I think that these really should have an additional +2 Str +2 Con or so just to balance out the to-hit and AC penalties of being Large.


Let's start with Ogres - these are the simplest of the Large races, but in this setting that means they're likeable guys good with a plow. So let's go with that:

Ogre
Large Humanoid? Monstrous Humanoid? Giant? Pick what you want to do about Charm person, Enlarge Person and such and go with it.
+2 Str -2 Int (if you insist on +0 total stats)
Large Size: as large creatures, Ogres receive a -1 size penalty to AC and to attacks, a -4 size penalty to hide, but a +4 size bonus to grapple. They have a natural reach of 10' and they have carrying capacities that are Nx a medium characters and they must use weapons and equipment scaled for large characters (which weighs and cost N times as much)
Hardy Stock: Anytime an ogre heals HP (whether due to rest, spell or potion) , they add their character level to the amount healed.
Honest Folk: Ogres receive a +4 to diplomacy checks but a -4 to bluff checks
Traditions : Craft, Profession and all Knowledge skills are always class skills for an Ogre. Additionally Ogres receive 2 bonus skill ranks per level to spend on their choice of Craft, Knowledge or Profession skills.

Now you have Ogres that benefit from having healing abilities and despite the Int penalty, they have skill ranks that can help them get into PrCs and a bonus that helps social character concepts.

Tempting to also give them some sort of 1/day shake it off ability that lets them get out of fatigue/exhaustion/sleep/stun/daze/hold etc. But that's not terribly evocative of any character concept.


Next up, Trolls. And well, Aquatic is a pretty good flavor for trolls, so let's build on it a little:

Troll (Aquatic, Amphibious)
Large Monstrous Humanoid?
+2 Con -2 Cha
Large Size: as large creatures, Ogres receive a -1 size penalty to AC and to attacks, a -4 size penalty to hide, but a +4 size bonus to grapple. They have a natural reach of 10'. They have carrying capacities that are Nx a medium characters and they must use weapons and equipment scaled for large characters (which weighs and cost N times as much)
Swim Speed of ____
Sea god's children: Trolls gain Fast Healing equal to their character level when they are submerged in water. Trolls cast spells with the [Cold] and [Water] descriptors at +2 caster levels (and it's tempting to include the spells from the water domain here as well.
Natural Weapons: Bite. Can use as secondary natural weapon while using other weapons.
Shared Lungs: A troll has the spell-like ability to cast Water Breathing once per hour


Now the troll is the guy that takes the rest of the party on the underwater adventure to fight those shifty merfolk, and there's a reason to play a troll Ice Wizard as well as either of the melee builds.


Next up, Giants. From the description in the first post, I see giants as something vaguely Roman-esque. They kick ass in army-on-army combat and therefore rule the world.


Giant Large Humanoid? Giant?
+2 Str -2 Dex
Large Size: as large creatures, Ogres receive a -1 size penalty to AC and to attacks, a -4 size penalty to hide, but a +4 size bonus to grapple. They have a natural reach of 10'. They have carrying capacities that are Nx a medium characters and they must use weapons and equipment scaled for large characters (which weighs and cost N times as much)
Bellow: A giant can yell loud enough to be heard and understood up to a mile away.
Masters of the Known World: Giants are the largest civilization in the setting and therefore expect to be feared and respected. They gain a +4 to save vs fear effects and any fear effect a giant generates has twice the nomral duration.
Two Legged Siege engine: Giants double the range increment with thrown weapons and of any ranged spells they cast or activate from items.

So the race has a mid-distance communications ability built in, giant infantry with longspears can use Intimidate ->Demoralize to great effect in combat and giant wizards/sorcerers/druids outrange anyone else, letting them win in open warfare, but giving them problems against small and sneaky opponents.

[Seerow]

From a mechanics standpoint, the inability to be an effective arcane caster and the loss of skill points becomes a really bad deal by 7th level at the latest.

This is a good point. It's actually a strong point in favor of making this an E6 setting rather than a full D&D 3.5 setting. (E6 caps at level 6, which is ideal for a relatively low magic low tech world)


As for your revised races, I like them, but the Giant feels a bit sub-par compared to the other 2. You have the Ogre who gets a bunch of extra HP when healed from any source (which could be interpreted for some serious awesomeness when combined with something like Vigor), and the troll's fast healing when in the water... the Giant gets a bonus to fear effects. But can't generate one naturally. If you really want that to be the Giant's schtick, let them use Intimidate to cause a fear effect, with a bonus to intimidate and intimidate always as a class skill. The Giant just feels really weak relative to the other two, and given they're the ones calling the shots that seems wrong.

[DragonChild]

If you really want that to be the Giant's schtick, let them use Intimidate to cause a fear effect, with a bonus to intimidate and intimidate always as a class skill.

I believe Josh is counting this as a "fear effect" :

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/intimidate.htm

Demoralize Opponent

You can also use Intimidate to weaken an opponent’s resolve in combat. To do so, make an Intimidate check opposed by the target’s modified level check (see above). If you win, the target becomes shaken for 1 round. A shaken character takes a -2 penalty on attack rolls, ability checks, and saving throws. You can intimidate only an opponent that you threaten in melee combat and that can see you.

[Seerow]

If you really want that to be the Giant's schtick, let them use Intimidate to cause a fear effect, with a bonus to intimidate and intimidate always as a class skill.

I believe Josh is counting this as a "fear effect" :

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/intimidate.htm

Demoralize Opponent

You can also use Intimidate to weaken an opponent’s resolve in combat. To do so, make an Intimidate check opposed by the target’s modified level check (see above). If you win, the target becomes shaken for 1 round. A shaken character takes a -2 penalty on attack rolls, ability checks, and saving throws. You can intimidate only an opponent that you threaten in melee combat and that can see you.

1) That's pretty weak. Even with the doubled effect that lasts for all of 2 rounds.

2) There's a good chance the Giant won't have that skill, or any spells/effects that cause fear, making his main feature pretty much useless.

[CatharzGodfoot]

From a setting standpoint it's hard to see how the races with penalties to social skills and problem-solving are part of the dominant civilization and seen as trustworthy.

From a mechanics standpoint, the inability to be an effective arcane caster and the loss of skill points becomes a really bad deal by 7th level at the latest.

My intent was that giants would have the dominant civilization, and that ogres and trolls would be independent or vassals. Arcane magic, especially wizardly magic, is inherently tied to the development of civilization and written language, and would therefore be an invention of the giants. Trolls and ogres would more often be clerics and druids.

[Grek]

While those suggestions are over the top, most of the previous suggestions in here amount to "If you plan to fight in melee, ever, you are playing someone large".

Which, honestly, is just as reasonable as saying "If you plan to be a non-stealthy, non-mounted melee character, Gnomes and Halfling probably aren't good race ideas." in a normal game. I see no issues with that.

[Bihlbo]

Hey everyone, thanks for the feedback!

Largeness Issue
What I’m trying to find is a baseline point of balance between the size difference to determine how much of a benefit being Large actually is over Medium, so that everything else besides size on the race card can be balanced independently.

The main reason this is a conundrum at all is because size is mutable. With very little effort and just a few levels, all characters are going to be able to determine their size in most situations, based on what benefits them the most. So if you don’t go into it assuming that a troll rogue is going to make himself Medium or Small anytime he wants to sneak around, and a human barbarian is going to salivate at the chance to go Huge, then you’re doing it wrong. Because of that, I’m not even sure size needs to be considered a balancing factor between the races. Sure, at level 1 there’s a big enough difference that letting a human just be Large coz the player wants it probably isn’t cool. But if he wants to be Large, he’s going to be Large nearly all of the time by level 10, because it’s something he was after, so how well did the balancing fix anything?

What’s wrong with just building giants, ogres, and trolls as Medium creatures with racial modifiers that are balanced to the other races, then applying Large size? The changes listed in MM say +8 Str, yadda yadda. It’s too much for this. I think it ought to be limited to Str +2, Dex -2, Con +2, natural armor +1, and the rest as listed. If so, I see this being the net change:

• Melee attacks have the same chance to hit a target, but gain +2 to +5 average damage (+1 from Str, and weapon damage goes from +1 to +4).
• Ranged attacks, including rays, and finesse attacks, have a -2 penalty to hit.
• -1 AC. So, 5% more likely to get hit.
• +1 hp per level – this is close to being a balance for the AC hit, but considering that you’re probably getting hit more than you’re making use of a higher max hit point total, it’s not a big deal.
• Occupied space increases, making it possible for 50% more enemies to surround you, and making flanking you much easier. I’ve noticed this comes into play very often if facing off against multiple opponents. This also makes it tougher to fit into spaces, occasionally, and limits mobility on a grid if stuff is in the way. You are very easy to include into area effects.
• Reach increases, making it far easier for you to get a chance to make an AoO, and far easier for you to close to melee distance without being in any serious danger, physically. This is the only thing on the list that is actually a big deal, as it affects all characters to a small degree, and most characters to a pretty large degree.
• -1 Reflex, +1 Fortitude. As far as saving vs. spells goes, this is roughly even – more spells get thrown around that require a Ref save, but most of the Fort save spells are save-or-fail or worse.
• Carrying capacity doubles, and benefits from the Str boost. But, your gear weighs twice as much, so this benefit for being Large is either really big (wizards) or negligible (fighters). As a human wizard with 8 Str I’ve really had to limit what I was carrying, so this seems like a big bonus for those characters whose Large-sized gear is at a minimum, but I’m not sure how often it comes into play when you get to the point where most of your stuff is being carried by minions or in other dimensions.
• -5 to Hide, +5 to grapple (after ability score adjustments). Everyone has a reason to hide and has the potential to be grappled, so this is not a niche balance point. That said, whether or not it’s balanced as-is depends largely on style of play. Last time I played, both numbers would have been a big deal.

Bottom line, if things are normalized so that this is the change that all characters go through when artificially transitioning from Medium to Large and back again (enlarge person, I’m looking at you), then it’s just not a big enough deal to consider being Large as all that awesome. Yes, it’s far better if you’re a melee dude than if you’re a caster. But it’s not as though a Medium character with the same build can’t compete.

[CatharzGodfoot]

It's true that being large isn't a huge deal for players with easy access to ways to get bigger. That's why I'd pair the size increase with significant boosts to Strength and Constitution.

Consider the Tome of Fiends feat Large Size. Its level requirement is five, and it boosts Strength by 8, Constitution by 4, natural armor by 2, and reduces Dexterity by 2. I don't think that those are reasonable attribute increases for a lower level character (and are arguably too good anyway), but they definitely serve to make the feat attractive even when you can enlarge person.

[Ice9]

Reach is a big one. That's not just good for warrior-types, it's good for almost everyone, including any spellcaster that uses touch-range spells.
That might be balanced by difficulty manuevering. But it might not - after all, how often do medium sized parties crawl around in small-sized environments? Not a hell of a lot. Unless you go out of your way to throw cramped dungeons in, it may never be a big factor.

AoEs are a mixed bag - yes, it's harder to get cover from them, but on the other hand, being larger and thus spaced out more, AoEs are probably hitting less people.

Flanking - yes, but only if your foes are smaller. Against other large people, you have the same flankability as a medium creature.

That said, with the stat adjustments you propose, large creatures are only the obvious choice for melee types, and a good choice for most others, not the only reasonable choice. This is not true of the stats I was talking about.

[Aryxbez]

FantasyCraft actually had Giants, Ogres, and Trolls as Race types one could play at 1st level. Can't speak for their quality too much, but can respect strive be a bit dynamic with them, and might find it valuable for your campaign. What I liked what they did with the Giant, was how there was no ability score increases for them, so least wouldn't be penalized by your attributes should you decide to play something not as stereotypical for a giant. I do suggest with races, you go with abilities to define them, rather than just giving them bigger str boosts, remove the size penalties to hit, and the double standard of penalties/bonus for bigger/smaller (that is, give either medium -4 to checks, or just the +4 to Large vs, not both). Last couple things being rather simple to implement really, and Large PC's get benefit of being big as been stated above, Increased Carrying Capacity by size helps give impact of being large there.

Also I agree with the suggestion of going with E6, as sounds like be a rather low level campaign, and something like E6, or FantasyCraft will keep the game to that level, while obviously still offering some growth in character options (even if might not be all that impactful).

[fectin]

Actually, yeah. You could just run ancient-era FantasyCraft. Then the work is all done for you already.

[tussock]

What I like about FantasyCraft is that it's like you paid a feat to write Giant on your character sheet. Oh no, wait, that's actually kinda stupid.

Does seem a little like that's what people want 'round here when they say "play a giant" though. I mean, +2 Str? Less than a 6' tall 210 lb Half-Orc? For my 10'6 1100 lb Giant?