GURPS and Hero - The Meta Problem

[Rob_Knotts]

GURPS 4th Edition and Hero System 5th Edition essentially expect you created your Player's Handbook for each game you run. More practically you're supposed to offer players pregenerated characters or character templates as a buffer between player character creation and the whole spectrum of character options offerred by the system.

I'm fortunate enought to know three guys who are experienced enough, and who trust me enough as a GM, to be perfectly happy starting out a game with pregenerated character/templates. Unfotunately that limits the group to three players, and when you keep in mind that these players have known each other for 10 years or more, player dynamics during a game tend to be watered down. I'm afraid new games will quickly lose steam if I can't find a few new players.

Problem is, in the past I've seen players who are new to the system I want to run, or just new to me as a GM, tend to reject pregenerated material (often equating it with homebrew rules for D&D) and want to have access to every possible character option in the core rules. This ends up in a new player to the group rejecting any character creation and building a PC who's a disaster waiting to happen.

"Newbie" players for Hero and GURPS games usually create characters from one of two categories: insane, crippled combat monsters, or Pros From Dover who (supposedly) do everything and (supposedly) do it well. The first type of character always ends up self-destructing, often during the first session, and the second usually gets taken down by relatively minor foes like an axe-wielding zombie. Either way, the new player becomes frustrated enough to never come back.

I've been running both of these games for about 20 years now, and I still don't know how explain to new players that they're better off using pregenerated character material instead of wading through all the rules for GURPS or Heroes to create a character without knowing what they're getting into with a new game or a new GM.

[PhoneLobster]

Though I don't use those rules sets, for my own very good reasons I'm sure, I do give out pregen characters from time to time.

I especially do this when running short one or two session adventures with highly limited time for character generation.

Generally however it is NOT a choice between fully pregened character sheets, its a reduction of options down to several broad choices.

The players can be say, shotgun guy, two pistol guy, combat magic guy as their combat option Then they can select from a short list of special skill options, a short list of defect options etc...

About 3 choices of 5 or six options that lead to complete characters seems to work.

[Catharz]

A lot of people find character generation to be as rewarding as actually playing the game. By offering pregenerated characters, you take away that element of the game.

When faced with one of these individuals, you may find it more worthwhile to go over the character with them, offering suggestions or even fighter-hacks. If the character still ends up sucking, you can even try going easy on them the first sesion or two, until they get the hang of the system.

But seriously, don't try to take away character creation unless the player doesn't enjoy it.

[Username17]

Creating characters in HERO is a bewildering ordeal of mathematical and statistical exertion. A travesty of beauty, and so on and so forth. It is not to be undertaken by the faint of heart.

I find that it is best to give players a Range of expected values. Players must conform to those ranges, no exceptions.

Attacks have a minimum and a maximum (in dice, not stupid fvcking DV).
Characetrs have a minimum and maximum CV.
Characters have a minimum and maximum Speed.
Characters have a minimum and maximum PD and ED.
Characters have a minimum and maximm resistant defense.

Once you've forced people into the kind of combat strengths you're looking for, you can move on with your life.

-Username17

[Crissa]

Frank's got it in one.

The power level of the actual dice-rolling needs to be known ahead of time to make a character appropriate - not just the point values of the characters (that's merely breadth, not focus) or the point value of a single attack (that's easily tweaked if you know the system or choose particularly well dissected attacks or defenses).

-Crissa

[Rob_Knotts]

1186765070[/unixtime]]The power level of the actual dice-rolling needs to be known ahead of time to make a character appropriate - not just the point values of the characters (that's merely breadth, not focus) or the point value of a single attack (that's easily tweaked if you know the system or choose particularly well dissected attacks or defenses).

-Crissa

Pregenerated packages and characters aren't just point values, they have descriptions and fleshed-out stats to let the players know exactly what's involved.

Having access to every possible aspect of character creation under a given system really has nothing to do with establishing the benchmarks for whatever game the referree has planned.

[cthulhu]

Frank seems to have it in one. I have been using the idea of benchmarking vs sample encounters as a mechanism for assessing characters (then you know where the trouble is) but the "you must be able to do this atleast this weel' seems to work as well.

[nova88]

I see no problem with employing pregen characters
to help teach the game and show the needed range of
various values,then in the next session(if desired)
let the players create their own.That's how I got people
to play Chivalry and Sorcery first edition,which also
featured mathematical gymnastics in character creation.