Where did it all go so wrong?
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...You Lost Me
- Duke
- Posts: 1854
- Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 5:21 am
A flash of lightning, a break in the wave, he passes from logic to rest in this troll thread.
DSMatticus wrote:Again, look at this fucking map you moron. Take your finger and trace each country's coast, then trace its claim line. Even you - and I say that as someone who could not think less of your intelligence - should be able to tell that one of these things is not like the other.
Kaelik wrote:I invented saying mean things about Tussock.
again le not understanding the "rules" 
but still you didnt use my criteria, you used your own.fbmf wrote:Guidelines, dude. You mean guide. Lines.
Game On,
fbmf
check ENWorld where i went into that whole debate a few times if you want...
"all roads lead to rome"
http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rp ... -rome.html
that was one thread trying to define D&D.
"D&D brand dilution", i think was the other.
http://www.enworld.org/forum/press-rele ... ution.html
have to search for my old bookmarks to find the links to them. you might find interesting discussion there to read.
EDIT: found links....
Last edited by shadzar on Wed Sep 14, 2011 3:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
Play the game, not the rules.
good read (Note to self Maxus sucks a barrel of cocks.)
Swordslinger wrote:Or fuck it... I'm just going to get weapon specialization in my cock and whip people to death with it. Given all the enemies are total pussies, it seems like the appropriate thing to do.
Lewis Black wrote:If the people of New Zealand want to be part of our world, I believe they should hop off their islands, and push 'em closer.
Threads linked there seem to be a perfect example of Shadzar's argument by solipsism. Only, dude, you use capitals at the start of sentences there, be nice if you did that here too.
Oh, and to translate: Shadzar means "D&D" is what his group did in the 90's, and some editions aren't very good at supporting that exact style of play. So if 3e and 4e are "D&D", then Giant Frog is also "D&D".
Therefore, uh, I'm not sure where the argument goes from there. I get the whole "the law says WotC could call dogshit D&D, so the law is stupid" thing, but the law is also true.
D&D is now 4th edition (Essentials), 3rd edition is now Pathfinder, AD&D is now C&C or OSRIC, BD&D is now S&W, and so on. You might still have some old 1st edition books in play, but you're not playing D&D any more, because D&D has moved on and left you behind.
If you want other people to understand what you're saying, it needs to be "2nd edition" you're talking about, or whatever clusterfuck of houserules passes for 2e where you live, because that shit hasn't been D&D for a long time now.
Oh, and to translate: Shadzar means "D&D" is what his group did in the 90's, and some editions aren't very good at supporting that exact style of play. So if 3e and 4e are "D&D", then Giant Frog is also "D&D".
Therefore, uh, I'm not sure where the argument goes from there. I get the whole "the law says WotC could call dogshit D&D, so the law is stupid" thing, but the law is also true.
D&D is now 4th edition (Essentials), 3rd edition is now Pathfinder, AD&D is now C&C or OSRIC, BD&D is now S&W, and so on. You might still have some old 1st edition books in play, but you're not playing D&D any more, because D&D has moved on and left you behind.
If you want other people to understand what you're saying, it needs to be "2nd edition" you're talking about, or whatever clusterfuck of houserules passes for 2e where you live, because that shit hasn't been D&D for a long time now.
PC, SJW, anti-fascist, not being a dick, or working on it, he/him.
so everyone at the Den, or the largest part, just play pathfinder, cause all their love for 3rd edition goes to waste meaning they are no longer playing D&D, because that shit hasn't been D&D for a long time now?
really tusock?
really tusock?
Play the game, not the rules.
good read (Note to self Maxus sucks a barrel of cocks.)
Swordslinger wrote:Or fuck it... I'm just going to get weapon specialization in my cock and whip people to death with it. Given all the enemies are total pussies, it seems like the appropriate thing to do.
Lewis Black wrote:If the people of New Zealand want to be part of our world, I believe they should hop off their islands, and push 'em closer.
Shad.
I settled this argument.
The True Scotsman has spoken. 3rd Edition is True D&D. I play Dungeons and Dragons Third Edition and like it, and declare, by the powers of my Scottishness, that Dungeons and Dragons Third Edition is the real one.
You lost the argument. Even if you're Scottish yourself and your last name is McTavish or MacGuire or McCormick, you lose. Because my last name is McLeod and there can be only one.
Go suck a barrel of cocks.
------------------------------------
More seriously, Shad's arguing as if there's some question of 3.x's acceptance among the editions. Not sure why.
It was more popular, more played, and more commercially successful than any edition before or since, so his attitude that it's the acceptance of the gaming community which determines if it's the True D&D is a somewhat puzzling stance to take. You know, since he loses his argument by his own criteria. Third edition beats 2nd in every popularity contest criteria (better thought-of, made more money, played more, etc) one can think of.
So, yes. It appears that for Dungeons and Dragons, third time was a charm.
I settled this argument.
The True Scotsman has spoken. 3rd Edition is True D&D. I play Dungeons and Dragons Third Edition and like it, and declare, by the powers of my Scottishness, that Dungeons and Dragons Third Edition is the real one.
You lost the argument. Even if you're Scottish yourself and your last name is McTavish or MacGuire or McCormick, you lose. Because my last name is McLeod and there can be only one.
Go suck a barrel of cocks.
------------------------------------
More seriously, Shad's arguing as if there's some question of 3.x's acceptance among the editions. Not sure why.
It was more popular, more played, and more commercially successful than any edition before or since, so his attitude that it's the acceptance of the gaming community which determines if it's the True D&D is a somewhat puzzling stance to take. You know, since he loses his argument by his own criteria. Third edition beats 2nd in every popularity contest criteria (better thought-of, made more money, played more, etc) one can think of.
So, yes. It appears that for Dungeons and Dragons, third time was a charm.
He jumps like a damned dragoon, and charges into battle fighting rather insane monsters with little more than his bare hands and rather nasty spell effects conjured up solely through knowledge and the local plantlife. He unerringly knows where his goal lies, he breathes underwater and is untroubled by space travel, seems to have no limits to his actual endurance and favors killing his enemies by driving both boots square into their skull. His agility is unmatched, and his strength legendary, able to fling about a turtle shell big enough to contain a man with enough force to barrel down a near endless path of unfortunates.
--The horror of Mario
Zak S, Zak Smith, Dndwithpornstars, Zak Sabbath. He is a terrible person and a hack at writing and art. His cultural contributions are less than Justin Bieber's, and he's a shitmuffin. Go go gadget Googlebomb!
--The horror of Mario
Zak S, Zak Smith, Dndwithpornstars, Zak Sabbath. He is a terrible person and a hack at writing and art. His cultural contributions are less than Justin Bieber's, and he's a shitmuffin. Go go gadget Googlebomb!
i hate to tell you, but those claims cannot be factually proven. you must want a job with Fox News, so you can easily twist and ignore facts to your whim, rather than give them correctly.
Play the game, not the rules.
good read (Note to self Maxus sucks a barrel of cocks.)
Swordslinger wrote:Or fuck it... I'm just going to get weapon specialization in my cock and whip people to death with it. Given all the enemies are total pussies, it seems like the appropriate thing to do.
Lewis Black wrote:If the people of New Zealand want to be part of our world, I believe they should hop off their islands, and push 'em closer.
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icyshadowlord
- Knight-Baron
- Posts: 717
- Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 12:52 pm
I think statistics are factual proof enough. I am sure he can provide ones for you that aren't total bullshit...
though I am sure you would still dismiss them as such for obvious reasons.
though I am sure you would still dismiss them as such for obvious reasons.
Last edited by icyshadowlord on Wed Sep 14, 2011 6:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Lurker and fan of random stuff." - Icy's occupation
sabs wrote:And Yes, being Finnish makes you Evil.
virgil wrote:And has been successfully proven with Pathfinder, you can just say you improved the system from 3E without doing so and many will believe you to the bitter end.
Cocks. Go suck them.shadzar wrote:i ha--
He jumps like a damned dragoon, and charges into battle fighting rather insane monsters with little more than his bare hands and rather nasty spell effects conjured up solely through knowledge and the local plantlife. He unerringly knows where his goal lies, he breathes underwater and is untroubled by space travel, seems to have no limits to his actual endurance and favors killing his enemies by driving both boots square into their skull. His agility is unmatched, and his strength legendary, able to fling about a turtle shell big enough to contain a man with enough force to barrel down a near endless path of unfortunates.
--The horror of Mario
Zak S, Zak Smith, Dndwithpornstars, Zak Sabbath. He is a terrible person and a hack at writing and art. His cultural contributions are less than Justin Bieber's, and he's a shitmuffin. Go go gadget Googlebomb!
--The horror of Mario
Zak S, Zak Smith, Dndwithpornstars, Zak Sabbath. He is a terrible person and a hack at writing and art. His cultural contributions are less than Justin Bieber's, and he's a shitmuffin. Go go gadget Googlebomb!
it would be impossible. there are too many variables...icyshadowlord wrote:I think statistics are factual proof enough. I am sure he can provide ones for you that aren't total bullshit...
though I am sure you would still dismiss them as such for obvious reasons.
you cannot remove the internet age form 3rd, nor can you remove the LGS due to CCG growth to help spread 3rd.
WotC ruined any possible chance of actually comparing the two productively when they didnt let them both exist within the same environment.
take movies.. the industry still sees Gone with the Wind as the highest grossing movie of all time (i think unless it has changed in the last few months), because they take into account the economy at the time, and adjust the gross of GWtW for inflation.
while the premise of doing so is still correct, they admit the flaw in that even since the population growth cannot really be taken into account. all they can produce is the numbers of dollars made based on that adjusted inflation.
anyone claiming a D&D product, that has NOT ran current with another, has done better than that other, should at least adjust for those sales in terms of population growth, availability and inflation since the times they have-a changed.
lets compared it to gasoline? gallon of gas when D&D came out was less that its octane rating... about 80 cents.
so you could get @28 gallons of gas for the price of a 1st or second edition books.
gas prices today are about $3, so you can get @8 gallons for a 3rd edition book.
1st/2nd @ $20 each
3rd @ $25 each? or were they $30 each?
inflation plays a BIG part in it then....
amazon and availability plays another....
acceptance plays yet another....
wasnt reports made about 3rd, and before 4th that 20 million people had played D&D at some point, and 6 million currently play?
where are those other 14 million?
but lets just stick with inflation....
28 v 8 gallons of gas is a BIG difference. it would have to say that 3rd outsold 2nd/1st @ 4:1 to even begin to compete. (yes i rounded fractions for ease, 3.xxx:1, whatever the math task is his or yours not mine since you make the claim and wish to provide proper proof.)
do we have records of how many PHBs sold of each edition since it was "required" by all persons playing?
then we have to think... "required" but did everyone REALLY need to buy one? then inflation kicks in again, or you can say people porated 3.x books so didnt need to buy them so the actual books sold were more substantial...or whatever...
the point is, it is a baseless claim and cannot be proven because of too many other factors, and not enough controls.
the big one again being that WotC stopped selling ALL 2nd edition material when they released 3rd, which makes actual comparisons of their sales impossible as they existed in different eras.
Last edited by shadzar on Wed Sep 14, 2011 6:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
Play the game, not the rules.
good read (Note to self Maxus sucks a barrel of cocks.)
Swordslinger wrote:Or fuck it... I'm just going to get weapon specialization in my cock and whip people to death with it. Given all the enemies are total pussies, it seems like the appropriate thing to do.
Lewis Black wrote:If the people of New Zealand want to be part of our world, I believe they should hop off their islands, and push 'em closer.
Most folk at the den seem to play in whatever's locally available to play, which is often Pathfinder. There's not a lot of groups still hanging in with their 3.5 games from what I've seen, it being fairly broken with all the splatbooks in play (and if you're still playing 3.5, it's probably because you own a buttload of splatbooks for it).shadzar wrote:so everyone at the Den, or the largest part, just play pathfinder, cause all their love for 3rd edition goes to waste meaning they are no longer playing D&D, because that shit hasn't been D&D for a long time now?
No, their "love for 3e" (seriously? Do you not read people's posts here?) is not going to waste. Yes, they are playing something other than "D&D", if words are to mean things.
And now we find that fuel used to be cheap in the US. Marvellous. Magical arguments.
PC, SJW, anti-fascist, not being a dick, or working on it, he/him.
As I have said, I play a 3.5/Tome/houseruled hybrid that I don't call D&D.shadzar wrote:so everyone at the Den, or the largest part, just play pathfinder, cause all their love for 3rd edition goes to waste meaning they are no longer playing D&D, because that shit hasn't been D&D for a long time now?
really tusock?
Game On,
fbmf
yeah, and a few years later his little sister starting setting everything on fire with her mind!tzor wrote:D&D? Wasn't that the game those kids played in that movie E.T.?
D&D causes people to be destructive psychokineticists!
Play the game, not the rules.
good read (Note to self Maxus sucks a barrel of cocks.)
Swordslinger wrote:Or fuck it... I'm just going to get weapon specialization in my cock and whip people to death with it. Given all the enemies are total pussies, it seems like the appropriate thing to do.
Lewis Black wrote:If the people of New Zealand want to be part of our world, I believe they should hop off their islands, and push 'em closer.
http://dungeonsndigressions.blogspot.co ... extra.htmlfbmf wrote:No, D&D was what Tom Hanks was playing in that 1980's made for TV flick.tzor wrote:D&D? Wasn't that the game those kids played in that movie E.T.?
Game On,
fbmf
youtube removed the clip of course cause of NBC... so you have to look at the thumbnail of it and around the play button to see the game books.
a still frame form the movie during the same scene...
http://peter.evans-greenwood.com/tag/dd/
Play the game, not the rules.
good read (Note to self Maxus sucks a barrel of cocks.)
Swordslinger wrote:Or fuck it... I'm just going to get weapon specialization in my cock and whip people to death with it. Given all the enemies are total pussies, it seems like the appropriate thing to do.
Lewis Black wrote:If the people of New Zealand want to be part of our world, I believe they should hop off their islands, and push 'em closer.
Maybe it isn't worth resurrecting this thread, but I thought the quotes from this podcast interview with Peter Adkinson regarding buying TSR and starting 3E were interesting:
http://thatshowweroll.libsyn.com/webpag ... er-adkison
For instance, when Hasbro bought Wizards of the Coast, they figured D&D accounting for at least 1/3 of the value. And Adkinson suggests that "the original strategy was to cut the D&D team down to like half a dozen people" (and let third party publishers print all the low-margin products like modules and whatnot).
http://thatshowweroll.libsyn.com/webpag ... er-adkison
For instance, when Hasbro bought Wizards of the Coast, they figured D&D accounting for at least 1/3 of the value. And Adkinson suggests that "the original strategy was to cut the D&D team down to like half a dozen people" (and let third party publishers print all the low-margin products like modules and whatnot).
sounds like the OGL. that way WotC wouldnt get stuck with warehouses full of unsold product, and it would only sell the core, what people were MOST sure to buy, leaving the rest licensed out.hogarth wrote:Adkinson suggests that "the original strategy was to cut the D&D team down to like half a dozen people" (and let third party publishers print all the low-margin products like modules and whatnot).
Play the game, not the rules.
good read (Note to self Maxus sucks a barrel of cocks.)
Swordslinger wrote:Or fuck it... I'm just going to get weapon specialization in my cock and whip people to death with it. Given all the enemies are total pussies, it seems like the appropriate thing to do.
Lewis Black wrote:If the people of New Zealand want to be part of our world, I believe they should hop off their islands, and push 'em closer.
I don't always play D&D, but when I do, I prefer 3.x.
For a minute, I used to be "a guy" in the TTRPG "industry". Now I'm just a nobody. For the most part, it's a relief.
Trank Frollman wrote:One of the reasons we can say insightful things about stuff is that we don't have to pretend to be nice to people. By embracing active aggression, we eliminate much of the passive aggression that so paralyzes things on other gaming forums.
hogarth wrote:As the good book saith, let he who is without boners cast the first stone.
TiaC wrote:I'm not quite sure why this is an argument. (Except that Kaelik is in it, that's a good reason.)