Things Other People Aren't Allowed to Like

General questions, debates, and rants about RPGs

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Swordslinger
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Post by Swordslinger »

shadzar wrote: level 1-10: heroic tier
level 11-20: paragon tier

:razz:

not only does the game itself state that "you are a hero adventuring".
It's a bunch of semantics. What it really means is "protagonist". You call any main character in a fantasy story the hero, even if he hasn't done anything yet.

As for the tiers, what do you want to call tier 1-10? Halfway through level 1, you've probably done something that can earn you the title of hero, so heroic tier sounds like a good name to me.

Dude, what's with the pointless nitpicking?
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shadzar
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Post by shadzar »

Swordslinger wrote:
shadzar wrote: level 1-10: heroic tier
level 11-20: paragon tier

:razz:

not only does the game itself state that "you are a hero adventuring".
It's a bunch of semantics. What it really means is "protagonist". You call any main character in a fantasy story the hero, even if he hasn't done anything yet.

As for the tiers, what do you want to call tier 1-10? Halfway through level 1, you've probably done something that can earn you the title of hero, so heroic tier sounds like a good name to me.

Dude, what's with the pointless nitpicking?
hero before level 2? got to love them Monty Haul games...

So you think those people claiming the game is "heroic fantasy", should rename it to be "protagonist fantasy"?

also 4th explicitly states "you are a hero".

James Wyatt went out of his way to say that turnip farmers dont make adventurers, they were never a turnip farmer, just a hero is disguise.

like people trying to use the word "human" for something non-human, why use the word "hero" for something not a hero?

i use the language provided and chosen to explain it, as do many others.

many appluad that the characters are "hero's fromt he start", while others feel that is something taken away that was wanted to be able to be earned.

you have two playstyles going on in the same game, someone isnt going to like it.

those people wanting to earn hero, will mean the one wanting to start a hero is going to feel held back. those wanting to start as hero, will make those wanting to earn it feel like they have forever lost a goal of play.

you can call it semantics, and many people sadly do...but in fact words have a meaning, so if you dont intend to use a given word, then use the one you intended to use.

if you are that poor a writer to chose the correct words, then leave it to someone else to chose them for you.

Hero has a meaning, and when saying it it brings it meaning forward by the listener. this connotation of the word is what you are saying, unless you otherwise define it up front. so dont blame people because you used the wrong word without giving thought to the fact that words have different connotations to different people.

look at the politics thread and see how an uncarefully chosen word can alter the entire meaning of a statement.

you and I may know the PCs to be protagonists of a story, but others hearing the word that the PCs are heroes, think of them in another light and associate KNOWN heroes to them.
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Post by Seerow »

Without reading through 10 pages of this topic, I'm just going to add weapons to the list of things people apparently aren't allowed to like on this forum. If you like weapons for any reason, you either want the DMF archtype, or are a damn munchkin, depending on which poster is deriding you for it.
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Post by Swordslinger »

shadzar wrote: hero before level 2? got to love them Monty Haul games...
You run into a lone peasant woman being harassed by 3 goblin bandits that killed her husband already and are now threatening to kill her. You kill said goblins and save her life.

You are now a hero.
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Post by Orion »

Nonsense. Everyone knows in REAL D&D you're not a hero until level 4.
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shadzar
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Post by shadzar »

Swordslinger wrote:
shadzar wrote: hero before level 2? got to love them Monty Haul games...
You run into a lone peasant woman being harassed by 3 goblin bandits that killed her husband already and are now threatening to kill her. You kill said goblins and save her life.

You are now a hero.
what a very very low expectation from the game one would have for that.

you are HER hero maybe if she can remember who your PARTY is...if 5 on 3 is worthy of being heros.

just when you loot the goblins she views you as bandits as runs off. proceed to loo her dead husband now. go on, you know you want to.


by praise the lord a group of heros came to kill 3 goblins attacking a crazy old woman. all the kingdoms in the land rejoice...or not as you arrive at the next town proclaiming yourself a hero you are laughed at an thrown out of the tavern for already being too drunk and the tavern keeper doesnt feel like any fights in his bar so you sleep on the outskirts of town in a gully in the woods.
Last edited by shadzar on Sun Oct 09, 2011 5:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
Play the game, not the rules.
Swordslinger wrote:Or fuck it... I'm just going to get weapon specialization in my cock and whip people to death with it. Given all the enemies are total pussies, it seems like the appropriate thing to do.
Lewis Black wrote:If the people of New Zealand want to be part of our world, I believe they should hop off their islands, and push 'em closer.
good read (Note to self Maxus sucks a barrel of cocks.)
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Post by Shadow Balls »

Swordslinger wrote:Dude, what's with the pointless nitpicking?
What would he be without that? A miserable little pile of secrets stupidity?
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Post by Koumei »

Seerow wrote:Without reading through 10 pages of this topic, I'm just going to add weapons to the list of things people apparently aren't allowed to like on this forum. If you like weapons for any reason, you either want the DMF archtype, or are a damn munchkin, depending on which poster is deriding you for it.
I'm pretty sure I said it before: NOBODY IS ALLOWED TO LIKE ANYTHING
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Post by Shadow Balls »

Koumei wrote:
Seerow wrote:Without reading through 10 pages of this topic, I'm just going to add weapons to the list of things people apparently aren't allowed to like on this forum. If you like weapons for any reason, you either want the DMF archtype, or are a damn munchkin, depending on which poster is deriding you for it.
I'm pretty sure I said it before: NOBODY IS ALLOWED TO LIKE ANYTHING
I am unapologetically fond of breasts. Anyone that does not like that can die in a fire.
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Post by Darth Rabbitt »

Hypothetical: what if someone's indifferent to breasts?

Will that be enough to warrant being thrown in the fire?

Also, I know it's been used before, but this sums the thread up so damn well that I can't not use it:

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Post by Shadow Balls »

Darth Rabbitt wrote:Hypothetical: what if someone's indifferent to breasts?

Will that be enough to warrant being thrown in the fire?

Also, I know it's been used before, but this sums the thread up so damn well that I can't not use it:
I believe that that would be cause for concluding that you are genderless and sentencing you to the fire. For the good of the colony. :mrgreen:
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Post by RadiantPhoenix »

Shadow Balls wrote:I am unapologetically fond of breasts. Anyone that does not like that can die in a fire.
What about people who think their breasts are too big? I've known at least one person who felt that.
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Post by Shadow Balls »

RadiantPhoenix wrote:
Shadow Balls wrote:I am unapologetically fond of breasts. Anyone that does not like that can die in a fire.
What about people who think their breasts are too big? I've known at least one person who felt that.
There is such a thing as too big. There is also such a thing as too small. Even so, every man and every woman has to stand somewhere on these two very important things.
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Post by Whatever »

Shadow Balls wrote:Even so, every man and every woman has to stand somewhere on these two very important things.
Why would you stand on them? That sounds quite painful for the lady.
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Post by Shadow Balls »

Whatever wrote:
Shadow Balls wrote:Even so, every man and every woman has to stand somewhere on these two very important things.
Why would you stand on them? That sounds quite painful for the lady.
I considered rewording that but decided against it to see if anyone would notice or not.

Fuck MLP, Boobies are Magic.
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Post by Swordslinger »

shadzar wrote:what a very very low expectation from the game one would have for that.

you are HER hero maybe if she can remember who your PARTY is...if 5 on 3 is worthy of being heros.

just when you loot the goblins she views you as bandits as runs off.
Good to know that NPCs in your world are so metagame as to disregard the people who saved their lives (and possibly the lives of their children) simply because they're not high enough in level.

It's just like how you see those stories on the news, where someone's house gets broken into by a violent criminal, they call the cops and one of the cops shoots the criminal dead. Then they interview the woman saved and she says, "Yeah... sure, that officer saved my family, but he's no hero, he's just a rookie officer, hardly even level 1. "

Stories like that happen all the time, right?
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Post by shadzar »

Swordslinger wrote:
shadzar wrote:what a very very low expectation from the game one would have for that.

you are HER hero maybe if she can remember who your PARTY is...if 5 on 3 is worthy of being heros.

just when you loot the goblins she views you as bandits as runs off.
Good to know that NPCs in your world are so metagame as to disregard the people who saved their lives (and possibly the lives of their children) simply because they're not high enough in level.
are you seriously that stupid?

1. the lady was saved, YAY! one small act in an insignificant place. you might as well have helped the old lady acros the street. you arent a hero but a boy scout.

2. adventurers loot their fallen enemies. an old lady seeing the goblins being looted can easily make her think the PCs are bandits also and trying to take what the goblins already had. so much for her thinking them a hero.

3. 5v3 isnt very heroic to anyone. maybe this party of 5 is her savior, but a hero? in a land of adventurers where this kind of shit happens ev'ry day?

a single act in a distant place where NOBODY sees it done by a group of people, NO MATTER THEIR LEVEL, will not be seen as a hero or group thereof. you have been watching to much anime and rading to many damn comics if you think so.

in my game, levels and such dont exist. those are not constructs the characters know about.

again you miss the point about XP and levels. you just have your characters here a ~DING~ when the time is right.
Some of the information and skills learned in the game can be applied directly in play. When a wizard toasts his friends with a badly cast fireball, the player learns to pay more attention to the area of effect of a fireball. Though the player made the mistake and his character only carried out the actions, the player's friends will also learn to keep their characters well away from his.
The reward for this type of learning is direct and immediate. The characters benefit because each of the players has a better understanding of what to do or where to go

However, a character also improves by increasing his power. Although the player can improve his play, he cannot arbitrarily give his character more hit points, more spells, or a better chance to hit with an attack. These gains are made by earning experience points (XP).
An experience point is a concrete measure of a character's improvement. It represents a host of abstract factors: increased confidence, physical exercise, insight, and on-the-job training. When a character earns enough experience points to advance to the next experience level, these abstract factors translate into a measurable improvement in the abilities of the character.

Copyright 1999 TSR Inc.
training existed in 1e, but i cant find it, and 2e only offers the mechanics, but as each edition moves onward, they neglect to offer WHY the mechanic exists. on reason is like the above bolded...the level gained is not due to going ~DING~, but rather acknowledgment form peers and others around you. likewise, you dont decide you are a hero...you must be declared as such by others.

level 1 or level 10 party helping a single old woman, that woman means little in the overall actions of the group. it may bolster existing actions done by the level 10 group, but for a level 1 group the distance such small act reaches will NOT make the group renowned in any way shape or form.

again Disney's Hercules touches on this as to why those little deeds, mucking out the stables, etc does not make him a hero, the self sacrifice does.

like the Hudson River pilot, was jsut doing his job "get passengers safely from point A to point B"...a firefighter putting out a fire and rushing out of the blaze saving someone's life. these are NOT heroic acts, just part of their job.

doing your job is being heroic? well in the world today where most people are lazy and half-as everything to look like they did their job maybe so. but a real world rather than the pile of shit the real world is today, a hero is measured by going ABOVE AND BEYOND, the call of duty.

the adventurers werent really going above and beyond if they were looking for goblin bandits...that WAS their duty. so not heroic, just doing their job. as adventurers killing bandits is par for the course.

you are too hung up on the level, and still dont understand what it means. i wish i knew where in the 1e DMG to find the name levels section to explain it to you. maybe you should get a copy and read it yourself?

that same party can walk into a tavern and claim themselves hero's and what would the response be?

the thing is you are thinking too focused with the old lady and her dead husband. to be a hero in the world, the WORLD must recognize you as such, not just a single person. you killed the rat eating your mothers flour and are her hero, so the world must view you as such?

again why the level helps measure the DEGREE of things, and when the scales are tipped by the increasing degree, then something happens.

you dont start as a hero, and a single act does not make you such either. it takes time, effort, and acknowledgment by others to make it so.
Play the game, not the rules.
Swordslinger wrote:Or fuck it... I'm just going to get weapon specialization in my cock and whip people to death with it. Given all the enemies are total pussies, it seems like the appropriate thing to do.
Lewis Black wrote:If the people of New Zealand want to be part of our world, I believe they should hop off their islands, and push 'em closer.
good read (Note to self Maxus sucks a barrel of cocks.)
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Post by Swordslinger »

shadzar wrote: like the Hudson River pilot, was jsut doing his job "get passengers safely from point A to point B"...a firefighter putting out a fire and rushing out of the blaze saving someone's life. these are NOT heroic acts, just part of their job.
Yet the Hudson River pilot was viewed as doing something extraordinary and got press for it. People did say he was a hero, and that's all that matters.

Being a hero is a matter of public opinion, it's not a game mechanic.

Was Robin Hood a hero, or was he just some noble pissed that the Sheriff confiscated his land?

One man's hero is another man's villain.
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Post by Shadow Balls »

God fucking damnit. Fuck you Swordslinger. Why would you derail a perfectly good topic about boobies in order to invite the resident retard to bang on his keyboard for a while? Wanting to get back to the original topic is one thing, but why would you do such a thing?
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shadzar
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Post by shadzar »

Swordslinger wrote:
shadzar wrote: like the Hudson River pilot, was jsut doing his job "get passengers safely from point A to point B"...a firefighter putting out a fire and rushing out of the blaze saving someone's life. these are NOT heroic acts, just part of their job.
Yet the Hudson River pilot was viewed as doing something extraordinary and got press for it. People did say he was a hero, and that's all that matters.

Being a hero is a matter of public opinion, it's not a game mechanic.

Was Robin Hood a hero, or was he just some noble pissed that the Sheriff confiscated his land?

One man's hero is another man's villain.
but the pilot didnt accept it, and at every event you could see he didnt like being called a hero because it went against HIS beliefs of what a hero was, including the superbowl and congress.

like said, flying the plane and caring AT ALL about the passengers for $17k per year was more heroic.

your bolded part is saying what i have been saying lal the fuck along. you need to be acknowledged by OTHERS, not jsut your little old lady. she doesnt decide public opinion, jsut her own, so that does NOT make those 5 PCs killing 3 goblins to help her a hero in the court of public opinion.

ERGO: they arent fucking heros because they havent done enough in enough places for enough people to be recognized as such...NO level 1 PC group will unless you tailor your world to be full of retards.

THAT is why the level 9 name level existed, because after the amount of time it could take the speediest group to get there (and Gygax hated people that went through a level in less than a month) would have at least done something in enough places for enough people to get recognition for their actions.

YES, you could stagnate in a single area and be proclaimed a hero fo the small Kingdom of Bumblefuck...but if you ever leave there, it is no guarantee you will be seen as such elsewhere.

the point still remains. you are NOT a hero jsut because your character is a PC. that is a playstyle, one in which was forced onto people with 3rd and to a greater extent 4th...and YOU HAVE NO RIGHT, to force people into playing that way.

ERGO: the problem. D&D isnt heroic fantasy, but YOUR game MAY be, if that is the way YOU chose to play. but you have no right to force others into the same playstyle.

hero is a loaded term and a competent writer/author knows to avoid using a loaded term, when you dont need it and it doesnt serve it purpose.

ERGO: PCs are not by default heroes, but adventurers. YOU MAY CHOOSE to play them as heroes from the start, but everyone doesnt have to follow that playstyle.

so stop using loaded words that define you, rather than using the proper word that defines the game.

*You being a speaker using the word, not necessarily you who i am quoting.
Play the game, not the rules.
Swordslinger wrote:Or fuck it... I'm just going to get weapon specialization in my cock and whip people to death with it. Given all the enemies are total pussies, it seems like the appropriate thing to do.
Lewis Black wrote:If the people of New Zealand want to be part of our world, I believe they should hop off their islands, and push 'em closer.
good read (Note to self Maxus sucks a barrel of cocks.)
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Post by Count Arioch the 28th »

Shadow Balls wrote:
RadiantPhoenix wrote:
Shadow Balls wrote:I am unapologetically fond of breasts. Anyone that does not like that can die in a fire.
What about people who think their breasts are too big? I've known at least one person who felt that.
There is such a thing as too big. There is also such a thing as too small. Even so, every man and every woman has to stand somewhere on these two very important things.
If a lady feels that her boobies are too big, I would be more than happy to help her carry them. I have had experience with lots of large boobies in my life, some nearly as big as my entire torso. I am sure you will find that I'm well qualified to help with them.
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Post by RadiantPhoenix »

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Post by Shadow Balls »

Count Arioch the 28th wrote:If a lady feels that her boobies are too big, I would be more than happy to help her carry them. I have had experience with lots of large boobies in my life, some nearly as big as my entire torso. I am sure you will find that I'm well qualified to help with them.
I feel conflicted. On one hand, you are a ponyboy. This makes me want to rage. On the other, you speak many truths about the gospel of boobies.
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Count Arioch the 28th
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Post by Count Arioch the 28th »

Shadow Balls wrote:
Count Arioch the 28th wrote:If a lady feels that her boobies are too big, I would be more than happy to help her carry them. I have had experience with lots of large boobies in my life, some nearly as big as my entire torso. I am sure you will find that I'm well qualified to help with them.
I feel conflicted. On one hand, you are a ponyboy. This makes me want to rage. On the other, you speak many truths about the gospel of boobies.
Ponyboy is not quite the same as a brony.
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Post by Chamomile »

I think this is intentional.
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