hogarth wrote:shadzar wrote:
healing surges are a outright joke because they give humans inhuman regeneration at level 1, without the use of magic.
You probably aren't familiar with this since you're such a n00b, but a guy named
Gary Gygax noted in previous editions that
hit points mostly represent fatigue and whatnot, so it doesn't stretch credulity to think that fatigue would be regained by a short rest.
wow, again people that know nothing of the game speaking as if they know it all..
let us take a look at the 1e DMG shall we to see EXACTLY what Gary says related to this...
1e DMG pg 82 wrote:Hit Points
It is quite unreasonable to assume that as a character gains levels of ability in his or her class that a corresponding gain in actual ability to sustain physical damage damage takes place. It is preposterous to state such an assumption, for if we are to assume that a man is killed by a sword thrust which does 4 hit points of damage, we must similarly assume that a hero could, on the average, withstand five such thrusts before being slain!
is this where you stopped reading? lets continue with the paragraph shall we?
1e DMG pg 82 wrote:Why then the increase in hit points? Because these reflect both the actual physical ability of the character to withstand damage ––– as indicated by constitution bonuses ––– and a commensurate increase in such areas as skill in combat and similar life-or-death situations, the "sixth sense" which warns the individual of some otherwise unforeseen events, sheer luck, and the fantastic provisions of magical protections and/or divine protection.
ok now what the hell does that mean? well it tells us why hit points increase as that was the question asked, but then lets find out what are hit points?
1e DMG pg 228 wrote:Hit Points ––– The number of points of damage a creature can sustain before death (or optionally, coma), representing the creature's physical endurance, fighting experience, skill, or luck.
ok so hit points increase to represent this skill and luck that is why you dont stay at the same number, but get more. then the range gets bigger from 100% to death because of skill and luck, but what does the number mean?
points of damage a creature can sustain before death (or optionally, coma)
damage....hmm. so he got emotionally scarred? emotional scarring will cause death?
the skill and luck bit ends when the new hit points are added. from there out hit points are removed from your new skill and lucky factored in total by PHYSICAL DAMAGE.
no skill in the game will reduce the number of hit points loss when you get hit. it just makes that 4 damage from a sword not as much as it was, which goes to show how in places Gary loved to contradict himself on ideas because he had NO editor for 1st edition to tell him his statements were contradicting himself.
4 points of physical damage is no longer able to kill the 40 HP character at 8th level because his fighting experience, skill and luck increased his ability to continue on so that 4 points does a less percentage damage to him but still does 4 fucking points of physical damage. he is just battle hardened now (shown through having increased hit points) that lets him continue taking MORE PHYSICAL DAMAGE, without dying or falling into a coma.
the skill and luck end when the max hit points are calculated. when you actually use, by losing or healing, HP you are dealing with strict physical damage.
Gary didnt explain things very well, thus why we have a an "attack" roll or "to hit" roll, rather than what it truly is a "did i do any damage" roll?
but calling it a "does it damage" roll just doesnt have that catchy ring to it, as an "attack" roll or "to hit" roll as the wargames that came before called them because those games REALLY did check to see if you hit. and told you what happened WHEN you attacked.
why this is the case you may ask? a poison blade exists. if it doesnt connect the person to do damage it cannot transfer even its contact poison. so if it couldnt do damage it couldnt poison either.
so the "to hit" roll is really a "to damage" roll....and damage is physical. once you have rolled "to damage", then you make the "how much damage?" roll.
imagine it this way in regards to "to hit"... is the opponent just standing there and you are swinging and missing if you dont roll high enough? does that seem like how a fight would work? or it is you swung at the opponent and they blocked or parried your attack and you actually DID hit something, but not enough or in a correct placed to damage them. there is the off chance they dodges the attack and you actually missed and did NOT hit as per the name of the roll, but this is less likely to happen than two swords actually clashing as the opponent was using his own sword for defense against your attack with your sword.
i mean Gary based the entire combat around Eroll Flynn final fight scene against Gisborne in Robin Hood. and they have swords clashing all the time, but since nobody actually hits each other, then how the fuck did he arrive at HP in the first place, since only the one single hit make caused Gisborne to go down? how could he lose hit points when HE was never hit? when he was NEVER caused damage, and then in turn HP say you are taking damage?
Gary sucked at explaining things, and needed an editor. this is why he had a lawyer sitting with him when he appeared on 60 minutes to make sure he didnt say something stupid.
hit points show damage done, which is physical, the fact they increase shows greater luck, skill, and fighting experience. those 3 things do not actually come into play during the attack and damage sequence, only the physical damage removes hit points, and only natural and magical means can restore hit points...ergo damage.
2e PHB wrote:Hit points--a number representing: 1. how much damage a character can suffer before being killed, determined by Hit Dice. The hit points lost to injury can usually be regained by rest or healing; 2. how much damage a specific attack does, determined by weapon or monster statistics, and subtracted from a player's total.
Damage
is what happens to a character when an opponent attacks him successfully. Damage can also occur as a result of poison, fire, falling, acid, and anything even remotely dangerous in the real world. Damage from most attacks is measured in hit points. Each time a character is hit, he suffers points of damage. It could be as little as 1 point to as many as 80 or more. These points are subtracted from the character's current hit point total. When this reaches 0, the character is dead.
Copyright 1999 TSR Inc.
hit points can be claimed to represent whatever you want to explain them being able to increase, such as Gary explained them. however in actual use, they always represent physical damage. it could be a scratch from a dart, thorn, needle, what have you, OR if can be a gaping hole form being gored.
tell me something that is NOT physical that causes a loss of hit points?
3.x wrote:hit points (hp): A measure of a character’s health or an object’s integrity. Damage decreases current hit points, and lost hit points
return with healing or natural recovery. A character’s hit point total increases permanently with additional experience and/or permanent
increases in Constitution, or temporarily through the use of
various special abilities, spells, magic items, or magical effects (see
temporary hit points and effective hit point increase).
HIT POINTS
Your hit points tell you how much punishment you can take before
dropping. Your hit points are based on your class and level, and your
Constitution modifier.
even 3rd says the RANGE is derived from several factors, but they are actually USED to show taking ACTUAL damage.
here is how you create the range of HP...class, level, which are assumed to be luck, skill, and fighting experience.
he is how HP work in the game...you take physical damage you lose them, you naturally recover them or magically/naturally heal them over time.
does the size of the gas tank in your car represent how much money you make, or just how far the car can travel before it stops? which do you think the car is more concerned with when using the gas?
so do you think the character is concerned with HOW he got the more HP, or what effects the HP actually have on him...being getting hit enough times to lower them he will stop just like the car with an empty gas tank.
