Threads that make us Laugh, Cry, or Both

[NineInchNall]

Got another one. Squirreloid and Kre-Ceilingcat already know about this one, but I might as well share it with the rest of ya.

Wait, what? Druids?


I wish I could find the thread wherein someone actually objected that using longstrider while wild shaped was going against the spirit of the rules.

[NineInchNall]

It's unfortunate that this one's now dead except in archive form. *sigh* It was in response to the PHB2 section on party composition, which basically said that Clerics and Druids can do everything.

http://boards1.wizards.com/wotc_archive ... p/t-635160

[Leress]

You are right the class is a gold mine.
http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.p ... st12100472

[erik]

1176614198[/unixtime]]You are right the class is a gold mine.
http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.p ... st12100472

The naysayers are certainly idiots. That class's methodology is somewhat interesting, but it needs a feat at every level at the very least. Hell, I think I'll post that suggestion over there.


[edit: ya know, before that thread I was really despairing from these links and this was gonna be the last one I checked out.]

[Draco_Argentum]

Man, where do you and Squirrelloid find that patience to stay at those threads?

[NineInchNall]

Magic in the blood, sir.

Magic.

To be honest, I don't have the patience. I've just got this nearly uncontrollable urge to protect truth. It forces me to run headlong into these threads.

[Cielingcat]

I do it for the lulz.

[Leress]

I do it for the xp.

[MrWaeseL]

1176656916[/unixtime]]I do it for the lulz.

Yeah but you visit 4chan for the lulz.

I think you're a masochist

[Catharz]

1176662833[/unixtime]]

1176656916[/unixtime]]I do it for the lulz.

Yeah but you visit 4chan for the lulz.

I think you're a masochist

[User3]

1176616375[/unixtime]]Man, where do you and Squirrelloid find that patience to stay at those threads?

All that debate I used to do in High School and College - I miss it sometime. I have this fervent desire to totally destroy people in argument. It would feel better if someone who was an intellectual equal stepped up to the plate, but since I'd like to think my logic is pretty good most of the time, I imagine most of those agree with me. Which makes me get bored eventually.

[MrWaeseL]

1176614198[/unixtime]]You are right the class is a gold mine.
http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.p ... st12100472

This is actually pretty cool. Sort of a min/maxer trap.

[ObiWayneKenobi]

I have to know something, and I hope you'll forgive me my ignorance for it. Why exactly do you guys have such a vehement hatred towards WotC? I mean, yeah a lot of the stuff there is... "unique" but wouldn't it be better to discuss it constructively instead of what amounts to "Hey, look at what these stupid idiots came up with now!" and lots of cursing? Most of the threads here bring forth good points, but those points seem to be lost in a slew of swear words directed at the company and everything they do. Even that Cambion thread should have been less vengeful and more along the lines of "Wow, look at this. Somebody doesn't know how to write monsters with LA" instead of "What a bunch of fvcking morons!" which is how it came across.

Is there some sort of bitter hatred between the guys here and the WotC boards, or is it just because these boards don't have as many "play nice, folks" rules?

Again not trying to be ignorant, just trying to understand why there's such hatred and ranting instead of constructive discussions.

[MrWaeseL]

1176673815[/unixtime]]I have to know something, and I hope you'll forgive me my ignorance for it. Why exactly do you guys have such a vehement hatred towards WotC? I mean, yeah a lot of the stuff there is... "unique" but wouldn't it be better to discuss it constructively instead of what amounts to "Hey, look at what these stupid idiots came up with now!" and lots of cursing? Most of the threads here bring forth good points, but those points seem to be lost in a slew of swear words directed at the company and everything they do. Even that Cambion thread should have been less vengeful and more along the lines of "Wow, look at this. Somebody doesn't know how to write monsters with LA" instead of "What a bunch of fvcking morons!" which is how it came across.

Is there some sort of bitter hatred between the guys here and the WotC boards, or is it just because these boards don't have as many "play nice, folks" rules?

Again not trying to be ignorant, just trying to understand why there's such hatred and ranting instead of constructive discussions.

for the lulz.

[Leress]

1176673815[/unixtime]]I have to know something, and I hope you'll forgive me my ignorance for it. Why exactly do you guys have such a vehement hatred towards WotC? I mean, yeah a lot of the stuff there is... "unique" but wouldn't it be better to discuss it constructively instead of what amounts to "Hey, look at what these stupid idiots came up with now!" and lots of cursing? Most of the threads here bring forth good points, but those points seem to be lost in a slew of swear words directed at the company and everything they do. Even that Cambion thread should have been less vengeful and more along the lines of "Wow, look at this. Somebody doesn't know how to write monsters with LA" instead of "What a bunch of fvcking morons!" which is how it came across.

Is there some sort of bitter hatred between the guys here and the WotC boards, or is it just because these boards don't have as many "play nice, folks" rules?

Again not trying to be ignorant, just trying to understand why there's such hatred and ranting instead of constructive discussions.

I can only speak for myself and what I see...there isn't some much vengeful as more irritated than anything else. There seems to be a problem with how things are done in WOTC with the handling of the more recent supplements and it seems to get worse (quality-wise) and worse as each new one is released.

I fling more insults towards people who are supposedly get paid to write this material, and I have seen better quality from people on the boards of both WOTC, here and various other gaming boards.

I am not asking for perfect, but I do expect quality. I expect that if you are writing a new class that at least you have looked at the rules, and would know what kind of challenges that this class would face.

About the Cambion excerpt, that one doesn't even follow the rules that the books have said to use when making a race. I don't think the good points are lost in the numerous profanities and insults, it just shows the frustration that is felt because after so long should the products be getting better not worse.

No you are not ignorant for asking the question, that is how we learn...by asking questions.

[Username17]

1176673764[/unixtime]]

1176614198[/unixtime]]You are right the class is a gold mine.
http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.p ... st12100472

This is actually pretty cool. Sort of a min/maxer trap.

I really don't get it. You get a bunch of feats and nothing. So if you don't exhaustively min/max the character and dumpster dive through like 20 books you can't do anything at all. It seems like the goal "make a simple class" got misplaced entirely in favor of making a class that was simple to explain as a class. Each actual character is going to be a weird amalgum of used magical devices, tactical feat chains, and skill synergies.

So designing or playing the "simple" character thus designed is a nightmarish ordeal. It's only the class description which is freakishly short. I mean I could make an extremely simple class right now:

• Every day you can cast one spell for every level you have in this class.
  
• No spell thus cast may be higher level than half your levels in this class, rounded up.
  
• These spells are cast as spell-like abilities, do not have to be prepared or chosen in advance, and may come from any spell list.
  
• Save DCs are Charisma based.

See? That's like the simplest class ever. Just slap some skill points and a save progression and you're in business. However, actually playing this character, or designing an adventure for him to participate in is a nightmare. Exhaustively determining what the character can actually do in any situation requires reading a two thousand page document.

The ultra commoner that this guy put together is similarly complex on the character design end. Every time you level, figuring out what your character can or should do requires that you go through the feats - all three thousand of them - and make a development plan.

Simple isn't always better. Hell, it isn't even always simple.

-Username17

[erik]

1176683244[/unixtime]]

1176673764[/unixtime]]

1176614198[/unixtime]]You are right the class is a gold mine.
http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.p ... st12100472

This is actually pretty cool. Sort of a min/maxer trap.

I really don't get it. You get a bunch of feats and nothing. So if you don't exhaustively min/max the character and dumpster dive through like 20 books you can't do anything at all.

I like the class as something to give to a brand new player who wants to play a fighter for some reason and having only the core books to begin with. Having a 20 level progression is only for consistency, since said character isn't likely to play past 10th level on their very first character anywho.

Easy to understand, easy to explain, still sub-par but better than a normal fighter and can do shit outside of combat.

[Catharz]

1176692598[/unixtime]]

1176683244[/unixtime]]

1176673764[/unixtime]]

This is actually pretty cool. Sort of a min/maxer trap.

I really don't get it. You get a bunch of feats and nothing. So if you don't exhaustively min/max the character and dumpster dive through like 20 books you can't do anything at all.

I like the class as something to give to a brand new player who wants to play a fighter for some reason and having only the core books to begin with. Having a 20 level progression is only for consistency, since said character isn't likely to play past 10th level on their very first character anywho.

Easy to understand, easy to explain, still sub-par but better than a normal fighter and can do shit outside of combat.

Except they'll have no framework for knowing which skills to take, or what feats, so you'll probably end up with a character that has a few ranks in a bunch of skills of varying utillity, and a bunch of feats like Alertness, Dodge, and Quickdraw. Classes with lots of bad options you can't un-select are terrible for beginning players, although it will quickly teach them what not to do...

OTOH, if you give them skill 'groups' they can select (maybe three), and let then use F&K [combat] feats, it would probably work alright. Probably too many abilities for a newb to get a handle on, and still worse than the fighter.

[Leress]

Cor Blimey
Reserved Feats Overpower???
http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=726974

[Draco_Argentum]

1176673815[/unixtime]]
Is there some sort of bitter hatred between the guys here and the WotC boards, or is it just because these boards don't have as many "play nice, folks" rules?

In a nutshell, the over the top ranting is more fun. Presumably most people here even enjoy the shouting at each other parts, they keep coming back after all.

[Artless]

After all, if I don't have fun, then no one will.

---Later---

I have likely been DMing longer than you have been alive, starting to play back in the white box days.

Friggin' hilarious!

Decades of experience can't save him from being a dick.

[josephbt]

What is wrong with that Argaud and Thorak person?

They don't make arguments, just fallacies. A 5 year old doesn't argue like that.

[Cielingcat]

A retard's guide to red herrings:

Now, I'm new to the boards so my points are simply questions/thoughts. I'll use the average die rolls. If I'm wrong - cool.

How about a few scenarios....

Classic: 12th Lvl fighter and a 12th Level Wizard enter a courtyard. Both equipped for adventure, but neither prepped for a fight. Assume Wiz has not buffed and Fighter has not quaffed any of his potions.

Roll initiative - (Fighter has improved initiative so the odds are that he wins). He charges with his greatsword. He has the slashing fury feat, so takes two swings at the wizard when he gets to him. He's attacking at +19/+14 (12 BAB/+6 Str (gauntlets ogre power)/+2 (Weapon)/+4 (Imp Weap Focus + Melee Specialization -5 Slashing flurry)... so odds are that he hits twice (right?).

OK... damage. Assuming no crits (even though Ftr has improved Crit), he rolls an average of 7 (2d6) + 9 (Str x 1 1/2) +6 (Imp Weap Spec. + Melee Specialization) +2 (Weapon bonus). Let's see... that's 24 points of damage each for a total of 48 points.

Now, assuming your 12th level Wizard has more than 48 Hit Points and assuming he can somehow make that concentration check (he shouldn't if we're going by averages), he's faced with a tough choice. He could take a 5 foot step and cast a spell. If it's a spell like "hold", it had better have a DC of better than 20 (+4 Base/+2 Dwarf/+2 Wisdom/+2Cloak). Not great, but averages say that I'll make a 20 at least once.

If the wiz stands in on a 5 foot step, he'll take all three attackes - which would almost certainly finish him off. If he tries to take a full move first, he'll take an attack of opportunity - which would also finish him off.

Just one scenario... thoughts?

[MrWaeseL]

Wizards are nudists. They also walk everywhere at level 12.

[User3]

1176731904[/unixtime]]What is wrong with that Argaud and Thorak person?

They don't make arguments, just fallacies. A 5 year old doesn't argue like that.

Its people like Thorak and Argaud that make it really hard for me to keep my responses directed to the contents of their post, because its hard to understand how anyone can be that stupid.

Also, Charlierock. Who additionally has the annoying habit of making 1-2 sentence replies multiple times on one of your posts instead of putting everything in one post.

I'm sure there's more I've encountered, but those are the ones who leap out at you. (oldskool is just a troll, he doesn't even make it in the same ballpark as the above).