Include this in 5e or I will FUCK YOUR FACE

[Mask_De_H]

Yeah, I'm signing off on this. The sixth one is a little odd, but what the hell.

[violence in the media]

I can get behind this list. I've seen the sixth point in play, though it was as a cohort, so it doesn't strike me as particularly odd.

[Lago PARANOIA]

I didn't know if this petition was snark or if it was serious, but either way I support everything on the list pretty much.

The only one I'll understand them not having are vampires, because unless you have Mary Suepires (that is, they only care about leeching off of the memetic power of their vampire in order to make their characters awesome with no regards or insight as to why vampires are awesome) having a vampire that actually feels like a vampire is probably too disruptive for most groups.

I totally agree about number 6, though. People trying their damnedest to squeeze some roleplay or story or usefulness out of their familiar has happened for so long and often that even Order of the Stick and Knights of the Dinner Table have gotten in on the joke. I say we throw these bastards a bone.

[Seerow]

I don't mind if all of it shows up in 5e, but I definitely would not expect half of those to be in core. Psychic Housecats, playable golems, and playable vampires, can all afford to wait for a while.

[Username17]

I don't mind if all of it shows up in 5e, but I definitely would not expect half of those to be in core. Psychic Housecats, playable golems, and playable vampires, can all afford to wait for a while.

You know what? They actually can't.

If they were going for a "back to basics, get the foundation right and build on that" vibe with 5e like they were for 3e, then sure. They could drop the PHB with just Humans, Elves, Dwarves, Orcs, Gnomes, and Halflings and tell the world to fucking deal with it.

But they are doing the "5e is the everything to everyone edition!" which means that they do have to come out swinging with things people actually want to play. And that means yes, vampires, shifters, golems, and psychic cats. In core.

Essentially, 5e has set themselves an impossibly high bar. In order to actually come through with their promises, they need to have things that were playable in later, more experimental sourcebooks for previous editions. And they need them up and playable right away.

-Username17

[JonSetanta]

Necromancer? Don't you mean....

... Nekomancer? ufufufu!

[hogarth]

I don't mind if all of it shows up in 5e, but I definitely would not expect half of those to be in core. Psychic Housecats, playable golems, and playable vampires, can all afford to wait for a while.

You know what? They actually can't.

If they were going for a "back to basics, get the foundation right and build on that" vibe with 5e like they were for 3e, then sure. They could drop the PHB with just Humans, Elves, Dwarves, Orcs, Gnomes, and Halflings and tell the world to fucking deal with it.

But they are doing the "5e is the everything to everyone edition!" which means that they do have to come out swinging with things people actually want to play. And that means yes, vampires, shifters, golems, and psychic cats. In core.

I think they've been pretty clear that "5E* is the everything to everyone edition!"
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* "5E" includes some optional splatbook somewhere down the line.

[Hieronymous Rex]

Signed.

Psychic Housecats, playable golems, and playable vampires, can all afford to wait for a while.

They don't really need to, though. Even if settings in which they are common can wait, the MM can have templates for making small, low HD creatures into PC races (which give different ways of making them playable, including telekinesis, magically endowed strength, and "be a familiar, treat your master as a henchman"), and warforged can just be a creature listed the MM (even if they aren't a big part of the base setting) with the race stats.

Vampires, at least in my opinion, have a high enough demand as to warrant a core racial class; this allows them to be both: 1. Used at a range of CRs, as the DM wishes, and 2. Be a player race.

[Mask_De_H]

Necromancer? Don't you mean....

... Nekoromancer? ufufufu!

Get it right

[koz]

Signed.

[Stubbazubba]

I was in a freeform-RP once where a character was a wizard who had been cursed so that he could only use his magic if he transformed into a cat. Naturally, he spent all of his time as the cat. He was a great character, actually, lots of cool stuff happened. So, yes, I support psychic housecats. And everything else, as long as they do it well. See, that's the problem, 5e D&D won't get the stuff that's old and just needs to be tweaked right, let alone bring in stuff like playing as low HD monsters in a non-retarded way.

[Neurosis]

The Den, your one-stop shop for in-depth analysis of Dungeons & Dragons and distressingly credible threats of oral rape.

[Koumei]

Woah, it needn't be oral. The face provides so many options!

And yeah, even if I personally don't like a bunch of those things, the game really could stand to have them right from the start. I mean, Eberon was massively popular, Steampunk is all the rage these days, people want weird stuff. People were even happy that the Tiefling made it into 4E core - it was the Dragonborn (and the loss of the Gnome and Half-Orc/Orc, and the "Tiefling: in. Aasimar: nah, THAT'S TOO HARD.") that people hated.

It would probably be in the game's favour. Maybe make the cat the shifting variety like the Tibbit (Dragon Compendium) or the Hengeyokai, for those situations that call for "normal" sized people. Or not. Whatever. And I'm aware that including Vampires is just going to attract the kind of person who reads Twilight and plays Vampire, but what the hell, it's not like 5E won't be too awful for me to enjoy anyway, and they'll at least make money off the people who like that crap.

[koz]

The Den, your one-stop shop for in-depth analysis of Dungeons & Dragons and distressingly credible threats of oral rape.

Sigged.

[Darth Rabbitt]

"be a familiar, treat your master as a henchman"

A friend of mine is basically doing this in a campaign I'm running.

Also, signed.

[Parthenon]

So what, are we all lining up to take our shot at Monte's purty mouth?

But seriously, people just want to have the necromancer/summoner in the PHB and all the others presented as playable options in the monster manual, right? Even if its having several summoning and undead raising spells on the wizard list? Because if so then thats pretty reasonable.

What isn't at all reasonable is requiring the shapeshifter, vampire, golem and psychic cat to be races fully statted out and described in the PHB. That is bullshit since if you have that, then you also need lizardmen, fishmen, every type of furry, ghosts, tinkerbell, squids, birds, inanimate objects, children and every single other thing that people want to play as options with as much thought and pagespace each as elves and dwarves.

[TheFlatline]

Shadzar, why do you hate fun and new ideas?

Point of order, steampunk isn't new. The Difference Engine dates back to 1990, and some of Jules Verne is arguably steampunk, which is over a hundred years old.

Steampunk is *trendy* right now. Not new.

Is it fun or applicable to D&D? It can be, but I don't know if I'd introduce it as a "standard" element to D&D. A specific setting or two or seven is fine. Even the "default setting" wouldn't be out of order. But I'd definitely make it a flavor/module. Otherwise it would be like expecting Dark Sun tropes to be universal in D&D.

[Seerow]

I don't mind if all of it shows up in 5e, but I definitely would not expect half of those to be in core. Psychic Housecats, playable golems, and playable vampires, can all afford to wait for a while.

You know what? They actually can't.

If they were going for a "back to basics, get the foundation right and build on that" vibe with 5e like they were for 3e, then sure. They could drop the PHB with just Humans, Elves, Dwarves, Orcs, Gnomes, and Halflings and tell the world to fucking deal with it.

But they are doing the "5e is the everything to everyone edition!" which means that they do have to come out swinging with things people actually want to play. And that means yes, vampires, shifters, golems, and psychic cats. In core.

Essentially, 5e has set themselves an impossibly high bar. In order to actually come through with their promises, they need to have things that were playable in later, more experimental sourcebooks for previous editions. And they need them up and playable right away.

-Username17

Actually I'm pretty sure for 5e core they have promised nothing more than every class that was core in 1e-4e. I haven't seen any promises about races, and even if they were going to make the same claim, it would still only apply to core races from the older editions. They MIGHT sneak them into the monster manual, but even that I expect something more like 3e's monstrous races where you can choose to play monster X as character of Y level. I wouldn't expect level 1 equivalents to come out until a few splats down the line when they've run out of 'new' stuff to convert.

The only people who are expecting everything from every edition of D&D ever in 5e core are people who are setting themselves up to hate the game already.

[wotmaniac]

What isn't at all reasonable is requiring the shapeshifter, vampire, golem and psychic cat to be races fully statted out and described in the PHB. That is bullshit since if you have that, then you also need lizardmen, fishmen, every type of furry, ghosts, tinkerbell, squids, birds, inanimate objects, children and every single other thing that people want to play as options with as much thought and pagespace each as elves and dwarves.

Exactly. At which point the PHB is now 500 pages.
Hell, while we're at the job of catering to everybody in the Core rules, we also need to accommodate Modern D&D, Prehistoric D&D, Futuristic Space-Alien D&D, and D&D Solitaire .... and then we have to put it all together in such a way so as to allow all of it to mesh together simultaneously.

Not only will it be an incoherent pile of clusterfuck, but now your Core Rule Set will be 3000 pages. Have fun filtering through all that crap as you try to figure out how to make a game out of it.

[...You Lost Me]

I think the point is that more people want vampires/psychic cats/etc., and so they should be top priority.

5e can half-ass everything, but it doesn't need to be in the PHB.

[Mask_De_H]

What isn't at all reasonable is requiring the shapeshifter, vampire, golem and psychic cat to be races fully statted out and described in the PHB. That is bullshit since if you have that, then you also need lizardmen, fishmen, every type of furry, ghosts, tinkerbell, squids, birds, inanimate objects, children and every single other thing that people want to play as options with as much thought and pagespace each as elves and dwarves.

Exactly. At which point the PHB is now 500 pages.
Hell, while we're at the job of catering to everybody in the Core rules, we also need to accommodate Modern D&D, Prehistoric D&D, Futuristic Space-Alien D&D, and D&D Solitaire .... and then we have to put it all together in such a way so as to allow all of it to mesh together simultaneously.

Not only will it be an incoherent pile of clusterfuck, but now your Core Rule Set will be 3000 pages. Have fun filtering through all that crap as you try to figure out how to make a game out of it.

That's stupid and you're stupid. Both you and Parthenon. Accommodating popular and desired options at the start does not mean immediately having to accommodate every option you chucklefuck(s).

There's nothing stopping a shapeshifting option, a necromancer option, and a summoner option from existing in the PHB; we've had the Druid, the Cleric, and the Wizard on top of the other two respectively before. Adding a playable vampire is just writing up something for them instead of/on top of whatever other badtouched race that gets included (Tieflings). Golems were the most popular 3e optional race and are the main thing fans like from their setting. The psychic cat could either be done like the Hengeyokai, end up in the MM, or be an option the shapeshifting class can take. And that's only because it's never had a codified mechanical representation before.

Elves and Dwarves don't get a hell of a lot of pagespace in the corebook regardless; the core race entry is a set of stereotypes and some crunchy bits. Even if you keep all the PHBI 4e races, then bring back the 3e core races there's space for at least two more.

[Foxwarrior]

I'm signing this petition too. Especially 5 and 6.

[Koumei]

Actually I'm pretty sure for 5e core they have promised nothing more than every class that was core in 1e-4e.

So, every class ever from 4E? Seeing as "everything is core!" in that?

[Seerow]

Actually I'm pretty sure for 5e core they have promised nothing more than every class that was core in 1e-4e.

So, every class ever from 4E? Seeing as "everything is core!" in that?

I'm pretty sure they specified "Every PHB1" or something along those lines.

[virgil]

Who says you need telekinesis to open doors as a cat?